Has Tolkien lost his crown?

Between reading Tolkien or watching Wagner's Das Rheingold I'll pick the opera. Same story and the opera isn't as boring.

Tolkien's perceived influence on the fantasy genre has always been overblown. Few authors follow him except in superficial ways. It is more accurate to say that fantasy authors used to copy Brooks than it is to say they copied Tolkien. Brooks's simplified tone and style is distinct from Tolkien's---and far more prevalent in fantasy considered to be Tolkienish. Tolkien's place in fantasy is buttressed by the sense of gravitas in his work. When fantasy as a publishing genre was being established I assume Tolkien's work was probably as useful a reference as any to fend off criticism that epic fantasy was juvenile with its baroque invocation of Germanic inspired dreariness.

Today's authors do not copy Brooks and by extension do not copy Tolkien, so Tolkien is not as relevant. Today's epic fantasy bypasses that route and taps directly the tradition of historical romantic adventure.
 
... or Kubrick's The Shining, which is the only King visual adaption I can think of that doesn't suck.

You didn't like Shawshank Redemption? It's a fantastic film. I'd prefer it to The Shining, even. And I love The Shining.

And it's interesting reading this thread. I don't really have a lot of input on the topic, but it's made realize how rarely epic fantasy does much for me. None of the mentioned authors are on my favorites list. Martin might end up there, but I won't be able to say until I read the entire set. As of now, I'm not head over heels. I stopped both Jordan's and Erikson's series after a couple books each, and I'd be surprised if I picked them back up. I've always admired Tolkien much more than I actually enjoyed reading him.

I think JamesL has a point, though. Tolkien's popularity and impact are undeniable, but his shadow, or influence, doesn't seem quite as prominent as it once did. As stated, younger readers are probably less likely to respond as strongly as former generations. Which is fine. It's natural for things to progress. I'd be more distressed if we never moved on.

But just because the sphere of influence shifts doesn't mean Tolkien will be forgotten. Shakespeare is still read and admired, and for a reason, even if he's not directly influencing most modern fiction.

Between reading Tolkien or watching Wagner's Das Rheingold I'll pick the opera. Same story and the opera isn't as boring.

Tolkien's perceived influence on the fantasy genre has always been overblown. Few authors follow him except in superficial ways. It is more accurate to say that fantasy authors used to copy Brooks than it is to say they copied Tolkien. Brooks's simplified tone and style is distinct from Tolkien's---and far more prevalent in fantasy considered to be Tolkienish. Tolkien's place in fantasy is buttressed by the sense of gravitas in his work. When fantasy as a publishing genre was being established I assume Tolkien's work was probably as useful a reference as any to fend off criticism that epic fantasy was juvenile with its baroque invocation of Germanic inspired dreariness.

Today's authors do not copy Brooks and by extension do not copy Tolkien, so Tolkien is not as relevant. Today's epic fantasy bypasses that route and taps directly the tradition of historical romantic adventure.

I think you have a solid point there, Bond.
 
When one of these guys produces a work of the imagination to rival The Silmarillion, which remains unequalled in the genre, I think it will be time to put JRRT in the past and leave him there. Until then, he remains a vital writer in the field.

It's interesting that you should say that, as it's always The Lord of the Rings that people talk about as being influential. Would you therefore say that you think that The Silmarillion is Tolkien's most impressive piece of work?

I have to say that I failed miserably in my one and only attempt to read it, as the style is extremely off-putting. I'm not surprised that it is rarely referred to. I do want to read it at some point though.

Also, while this post was not aimed at discussing Tolkien's popularity, I feel I have to say on this subject that I think it's clear the Jackson films have have been a massive factor there regarding his popularity in recent years.

I don't agree with the assertion that because Tolkien's name is mentioned frequently it indicates he is still influential. I think this is more indicative of his popularity rather than his influence; I don't think the two are necessarily linked. Then again, perhaps they are.
 
Last edited:
mythfanion, big fail on the malazan book of the fallen... comparing it to wot is just disgraceful... if you dont have the required intellect to comprehend it you shouldnt bash on it for a failure that is yours
I think you're missing the point (i.e. we're discussing Tolkien). And you display your own intellect right there with that oh-so-weak and insulting argument.

Almost every Tolkien thread I've seen here is a disappointment. Tolkien isn't ever going to be 'dethroned' by Jordan OR Erikson for crying out loud. Some people really need to expand their horizons a little - gain some higher ground and see what the bigger picture looks like.
 
IMO, anyone who only writes 3 good books(I didn't like the Hobbit at all) cannot possibly have the "crown." Someone is great after writing with quality over time.. not having a one hit wonder that they wrote throughout their life.

Being the first doesn't make you great.. it just makes you the first.
ROFL

This is hilarious on many levels. It is almost t-shirt slogan material. Almost.

Someone is great after writing with quality over time.. not having a one hit wonder that they wrote throughout their life.
It's crying out to be sigged... but there are no sigs here. *weeps openly*
 
Last edited:
Almost every Tolkien thread I've seen here is a disappointment. Tolkien isn't ever going to be 'dethroned' by Jordan OR Erikson for crying out loud.

Why not? I'm interested to hear your reasons as to why you believe this.


Some people really need to expand their horizons a little - gain some higher ground and see what the bigger picture looks like.

I'm not really sure what you mean by this? I like to think I do have a reasonable grasp of the 'bigger picture' - this is why I'm questioning the influence of Tolkien.
 
Almost every Tolkien thread I've seen here is a disappointment. Tolkien isn't ever going to be 'dethroned' by Jordan OR Erikson for crying out loud. Some people really need to expand their horizons a little - gain some higher ground and see what the bigger picture looks like

So Tolkien is the higher ground? Seems to me your the one with the narrow view.
 
I don't know that Tolkien's prose style has ever been that influential. Even writers that we maybe think of as following on from Tolkien quite closely, like Brooks, don't really write anything like him. His legacy has been much more important on the worldbuilding side - not just the elves/dwarves/magic swords/dark lords stuff, but also in his whole approach to very exhaustive, concretely realised worlds. It's expected now in epic fantasy that authors will have maps, languages, histories all worked out in advance.

Ironically, I think going forward his influence will be felt a lot more strongly through the films than the books. They're very good, very thoroughly researched and carefully made pieces of work that capture a broad audience in a way the books can't, and you can watch them in a fraction of the time it takes to read the books. Once you've watched them, you can't get rid of the power of the visual image when reading the books, everything is coloured by them. I used to read the books every year, probably read 'em about ten times, so I think I know them pretty well. I had to do a panel the other day about converting Lord of the Rings from book to film, so I opened the books just to get a feel, and was amazed by how odd it felt. Even for me, a long-time fan, the imagery of the films has bled all over the books and couldn't be got rid off. How much more powerfully will that apply for a generation that never read the books first?

Does that mean, maybe, that Peter Jackson will be the one who ends up stealing Tolkien's crown?
 
James, a few observations if I may.

What I am asking is whether readers are changing the way they view his work. For example, many of the alternate-world fantasies that appeared in the 70s and 80s are (rightly) regarded as being little more than Tolkien clones. There was no doubt that Lord of the Rings was the benchmark for epic fantasy and that Tolkien cast a huge shadow over the sub-genre.

I will point out that Bond seems to strongly disagree with this widely held ( and clearly correct) view. I will however expand this to say that anyone who keeps any sort of tab at all on new releases in the genre, will find in the category "epic alternate world fantasies" still hundreds of series in the last few years that carry a very strong similarity in content to Tolkien's the Lord of the Rings. Tolkien clones are still being written, and in great volume, check locusmag.com or sfsite.com for general overviews. The difference with the 80's and 90's is that nowadays there is also a lot of Fantasy that is not so clearly Tolkien inspired ( think of urban Fantasy, supernatural romance, New Weird).

I agree that Tolkien is the ultimate benchmark for the epic subgenre.

Instead, I'm asking "Is the shadow he casts over the genre of epic fantasy smaller today than in years past?"

I find that question hard to answer because often authors do not share their influences, because not everyone gets to speak about it. So we have to infer, from reading the book, and then make up our own completely subjective opinion of what their influences may have been.

I'm certainly willing to acknowledge that for instance the rise of GRR Martin has inspired newer writers to write in a more gritty, down-to-earth sort of style, that does not shy away from the more filthier aspects of a pseudo medieval world.

We could perhaps also say that Jordan's lengthy 12 part series has led to other authors who are equally spinnping out immensely long series, spanning from anywhere between 5 to books per saga. This is quite a step away from Tolkien's comparatively modest 1,200 page LOTR.

Of course we also see that 99% of the authors that do this are unable to pull off such a grand and elaborate scheme, but that is a different discussion.

I have to say that I failed miserably in my one and only attempt to read it, as the style is extremely off-putting. I'm not surprised that it is rarely referred to. I do want to read it at some point though.

I would not describe the Silmarillion as rarely referred to, as it is still a work that many Fantasy fans love. It pops up frequently on people's "best of" lists, but it is indeed for the more fanatic Tolkien reader than the LoTR. Personally I preferred the Silmarillion for it's immense drama and tragedy, plus the larger than life, mythical characters. Plus it is a unique book.

Also, while this post was not aimed at discussing Tolkien's popularity, I feel I have to say on this subject that I think it's clear the Jackson films have have been a massive factor there regarding his popularity in recent years.

I'm sure it has lead to even bigger sales yes. At the same time let us not forget that Tolkien's The Lord of the Rings was voted Book of the Century in 1999/2000, which as you may know, was before any of Jackson's films ever came out.

But certainly the Jackson films have brought Tolkien to an even broader group of readers.

I don't agree with the assertion that because Tolkien's name is mentioned frequently it indicates he is still influential. I think this is more indicative of his popularity rather than his influence; I don't think the two are necessarily linked

What are your parameters for measuring one author's clear influence upon ( a group of ) others?
 
Last edited:
Just to put mu two cents in here:

I personally believe Tolkien will always be the benchmark by which fantasy authors will always be measured, at least for some generations to come. He didn't start fantasy, that is something that has always been around, but he did put a great story in print, one that is well loved and respected. I see Tolkien as the wise old grandfather we all love and respect and will always have an influence in our lives. On the other hand the younger hipper uncles and cousins have their influence also, and being more in touch with the "times" they are sometimes seen as more important. I see this in my own life. And I think a large part of this is because of the Jackson films. It is a sad thing but we live in a disposable society. Have to have it quick and now, and that is exactly what the films did. I think they were both a good and bad thing for these books. I see this in just two of my own children. While my son is not a reader he watched the movies and absolutely loved them. But because of that he felt no reason to read the books, because he knew the story and felt like the books in no way could improve on them. Now my oldest is a reader and because she loved the movies also it inspired her to read the books. Which she also loved. I guess what I am trying to say is that the movies did get some people who would never read the books to read them. Unfortunately in our schools nowdays LOTR isn't something required to read, at least here in the US. And the way our kids are today, unless required a lot of kids won't read something like Tolkien. I am not saying he won't be read, there are always kids that will read it on it's own, but I don't think that the younger generation is going to just pick it up as something to read and pass the time. There is just too much variety out there now compared to when he was published, but that is a whole other debate.
Personally for me I didn't care for the books. Loved the story and still do, but the writing style wasn't for me. But I will always give the man the respect that is due him. And I really believe that he will keep his crown. I can't tell you how many reviews I read that refer to Tolkien and how this book or that is like his, or a copy of his. Whether you like his work or not he is still the benchmark a lot of authors are measured against and to me that will keep that crown on his head.
 
mith's last post pretty much sums it up as far as I'm concerned.

I don't see how LOTR serves as a benchmark for modern fantasy at all considering there are plenty of current works that have better characters, world building etc. It would be a pretty poor benchmark.

I do think it will remain timeless but not because it's "better" fantasy than other works.
 
You didn't like Shawshank Redemption? It's a fantastic film. I'd prefer it to The Shining, even. And I love The Shining.

I should have said the best genre adaption of his that doesn't suck.

It's interesting that you should say that, as it's always The Lord of the Rings that people talk about as being influential. Would you therefore say that you think that The Silmarillion is Tolkien's most impressive piece of work?

Certainly. The Silmarillion is the product of a lifetime's work and is far more powerful. It is a much stronger work than LotR and works on different levels.
 
I was going to post this in the Tolkien sub-forum, but then decided that as it is relevant to fantasy as a whole that it should instead be posted here.

Having looked at the nominations so far for SFX magazine's poll to find the best genre authors of all time, I was interested to see that Tolkien's showing wasn't as strong as I had expected. Few readers have nominated him as their number one choice, and many don't even include him at all in their top five.

This of course got me thinking as to why this might be. I wrote a short article about this over at Speculative Horizons, but here's a brief summary of the reasons I came up with:

- The proliferation of outstanding modern works. A Song of Ice and Fire, Malazan Book of the Fallen and The Wheel of Time have shown that if you want exciting, diverse epic fantasy you don't need to resort to reading Lord of the Rings.

- The fact that Tolkien's world-building and vision was not matched by his writing skills. His pacing often leaves a lot to be desired and his characterisation is questionable; we tend to see the characters as small figures against an epic backdrop, rather than up close and in more detail. I would go as far to say that Martin, Erikson, Abercrombie and Lynch to name but a few are superior writers.

- That Tolkien's influence is not as strong as it was. Younger readers coming into the genre are more likely to be directly influenced by Martin and Jordan than Tolkien. These authors are more accessible, there is more of a buzz surrounding them. Sure, this means that indirectly Tolkien will be influencing them, as many modern works are influenced by him, but I think the overall impact on younger readers is less than it was in times past.

Anyway, those are just my thoughts. I'm interested to hear what everyone else has to say!

Perhaps I should add that I think George R. R. Martin surpasses Tolkien in terms of storytelling and writing. Let's face it, as wonderful as Tolkien's world-building was, he never constructed a plot as enthralling as A Storm of Swords, or wrote with as much verve as Martin does. On top of that, Martin has proven his ability in a number of genres and formats.


I wouldn't read too much into the poll results from one magazine. Were I a betting man, I'd bet money that 200 years from now people will still be reading Tolkien, while many of the other authors mentioned throughout the discussion (some of whom I thoroughly enjoy myself) will have gone the way of the dinosaur.

Other authors may certainly be more popular in certain circles at any given time. But that really isn't an indication of influence. It's an indication of a fad.
 
everything of value has already been said in this thread so I'm not going to put any new clothes to make myself look smarter than I am...
...or Rowling (whose disgraceful behaviour over her Hugo Award win has pretty much ensured she'll never be nominated for that award again...

but I'm curious Wert. Whad did she do?
 
"Yet the old time fairy tale, having served for generations, may now be classed as "historical" in the children's library; for the time has come for a series of newer "wonder tales" in which the stereotyped genie, dwarf and fairy are eliminated, together with all the horrible and blood-curdling incidents devised by their authors to point a fearsome moral to each tale. "

From an introduction written circa 1900. Interesting to see how dwarves and fairies were seen as stereotypical even then. Yet much is made of how the preponderance of dwarves and elves is attributable to Tolkien. I see it as a symptom of a generation gap.

I will point out that Bond seems to strongly disagree with this widely held ( and clearly correct) view. I will however expand this to say that anyone who keeps any sort of tab at all on new releases in the genre, will find in the category "epic alternate world fantasies" still hundreds of series in the last few years that carry a very strong similarity in content to Tolkien's the Lord of the Rings. Tolkien clones are still being written, and in great volume, check locusmag.com or sfsite.com for general overviews. The difference with the 80's and 90's is that nowadays there is also a lot of Fantasy that is not so clearly Tolkien inspired ( think of urban Fantasy, supernatural romance, New Weird).

I agree that Tolkien is the ultimate benchmark for the epic subgenre.

I've never considered Tolkien worthy of a crown of any sort because I've always felt his work inferior to what I've read before because I benchmark him and all epic fantasy I read against romantic adventure classics.
 
Last edited:
but I'm curious Wert. Whad did she do?

Ah.... this was the occasion when good ol' JK got riproaringly drunk and ended up dancing on tables at the Hugo Awards ceremony, slurredly roaring, "HOGWARTS FOREVER!"

Or perhaps not. ;)

Actually this summarises a lot of the hoo-ha:

Harry Potter never got a sniff of the Hugo before, but Rowling's latest novel did more than win this year, it got twice as many first place votes as the nearest competition. Some writers were outraged that a non-sf book won, referring to the result as "Harry Potter and the Hugo of Shame." Although the Hugo rules allow the award to be given to works of sf or fantasy, one can understand how this could be forgotten, since fantasy as practiced by Tolkien, Lovecraft, Moorcock, etc. has never won before. Other writers, and fans too, were upset that someone who doesn't know the sf community won its top award. Ordinarily, voters ignore bestselling writers outside the field, for example, Michael Crichton. However, I think Greg Bear explained the result very well: the vote is a tribute to a writer who has done more than anyone to attract young readers to our kind of literature.

To summarize: Ooh, it's a Fantasy Book winning the (SF prize) Hugo*; and secondly, how dare good ol' JK win when she never even knew the award existed ('till she won it.)

*And yes, the Hugo is awarded for the best SF or Fantasy. ;)

Mark / Hobbit
 
The following comments are made with the understanding that I am a huge fan of George Martin's, I believe him to be an accomplished prose stylist and writer and Song of Ice and Fire is one of my favorite series.

Pratchett is, yes, but Rowling? By whom? The point you are reinforcing is that GRRM isn't as well-known outside the genre as he is in it, which certainly makes any claim for him to be the 'king of fantasy' dubious; however in a comparison of author-to-author by people who are aware of both, I do not know anyone who would contend that Rowling is more 'literary' than GRRM.

In the outside world, the opinions of people knowledgable in the category fantasy field mean buptkus, because the entire field is considered not to be literary, but commercial. Martin simply isn't known that well by scholars and literary pundits. He isn't ignored, he's studied in universities, but not as much as Rowling, or for that matter, Peter Beagle, Tolkein, Ursula LeGuin or even Michael Moorcock and Stephen King. Rowling is decried as a children's and fantasy author by many but acclaimed as a children's author by many. She has been up for and hotly debated as a candidate for major literature prizes outside the field; Martin has not yet.

If you mean as mini-series,

I mean other media -- film, t.v., comics, games. George is involved in the games market and has been a long successful screenwriter, so he does have a body of work there, but Gaiman has his fingers in more pies and King, no matter what you think personally of any of his movies, t.v. series and various projects, rules as a writer with the most alternate media franchising. So King is more influential again in the wider world. In fact, King could be said to have a higher name recognition level than Tolkein, or at least did before the LOTR movies came out; still not sure he doesn't now though.

As for awards, I didn't mean that Martin doesn't beat Rowling in awards, but that in terms of awards in the field, Martin doesn't have the highest number, compared to several other authors.

But since James has clarified his question to mean is Tolkein still the major influence of alternate world fantasy, I would say that the answer is yes and no. Tolkein did not create in a vacuum -- he drew from numerous mythological sources, from the Greek and Norse myths through Beowulf and on down, and so too did many SFF writers draw from those sources, not from Tolkein, to create early fantasy works, such as Andre Norton's Witchworld. The writers that followed drew most of the time not so much from Tolkein, as from those cultural sources and other early writers.

But the success of publishing Tolkein's work in a mass market paperback trilogy for the SF fan market provided a model for shaping the early fantasy category market. It was not a pure clone model -- most of the early alternate world stories, like Donaldson's Thomas Covenant, and Kay's Finnovar, involved a person from Earth being transported to a different world, a device that came from SF and Verne and Wells. The idea of writing a story in several parts as a series, an epic, however, of writing about war on a pre-industrial level, politics, the dying and rebirth of cultures, came from LOTR. Those early writers, though, didn't want to copy MiddleEarth; they wanted to distinguish themselves from it. Tolkein's success in the SFF field and the success of other early and non-category authors there told them there would be an audience for that type of story, but they were dealing with lots of different ideas.

King, who was the phenom of the 1980's, wrote horror and dark fantasy and he and other major writers in that field were a huge influence on fantasy writers. SF was a huge influence, especially as many of the fantasy writers were also SF authors. Historical fiction was also a big influence -- many fantasy writers who came into the field were historians and used that material, not Lord of the Rings. The material they wrote was frequently gritty and violent -- to say that Donaldson, Kay, Cook, and others were fluffy bunny clones of Tolkein is pretty demeaning. You don't have to prove the toughness of newer writers by insisting that the older authors who influenced them, and who are still publishing today, were weenies. Jordan also has quite a bit of troubling, gritty material. It's not his content that bothers you, but his writing style.

To claim that in the 1990's, alternate world fantasy suddenly metamorphisized into a new form is one of the stranger claims I've heard. What it did was simply expand, though still in a fairly whitebread Western manner. Erikson, while an excellent writer, is heavily influenced by Cook. Martin's work is no more gritty than many other early fantasy writers, plus he's got a sentimental streak, and there are obvious parallels to LOTR in his series. Lynch owes a debt to Stephen Brust, who was influenced by several older authors. Of all the newer alternate world fantasists I've read or heard about so far, the only one who's gotten really radical on the violence front is perhaps Scott Bakker.

But measuring the amount of raw violence in alternate world fantasy is a poor way to try and determine how far the sub-field has moved from Tolkein, since Tolkein's entire story was about the damage of violence, hate, the lust for power, etc. If fantasy stories were becoming less violent and raw, you could perhaps make the argument. That some of them are becoming more so, is maybe an indicator that the new authors are just developing Tolkein's focus further.

Tolkein has been pictured as a pastorial utopian with black and white characters, which he wasn't, but is that myth now become his influence? Hard to say. Any story with a quest (a standard of mythology,) a young person (which Tolkein didn't even have really,) or a dwarf in it (a common occurrence in fairy tales,) -- with the faintest of connections, gets labeled a Tolkein copy, so maybe the myth of Tolkein has become the bigger influence than the actual book.

So, do as many of the new authors use Tolkein as their jumping off point -- did they read it, did it effect them, do they keep it in mind when they write? That would be a no in the sense that many of the writers now may not have read LOTR. But they've read other authors who were influenced by Tolkein, so the chain could be said to continue.

Do we still compare all alternate world fantasy writers to Tolkein? Yes, we do, measuring how like or unlike LOTR they are. As long as we continue to do that, and as long as the amount of violence in a story is considered a critical measurement in reference to LOTR and the myth of LOTR, then Tolkein still does cast his shadow over the sub-category. If we stop saying that Erkison is cool because he doesn't imitate Tolkein, if we stop accusing fantasy writers of being Tolkein clones, then we could say that Tolkein's influence has finally wained. But so far, the body of fans doesn't seem inclined to do this. So if the measurement being taken is does Tolkein still cast a shadow over alternate world fantasy, then probably that shadow has not shrunk a great deal yet. Give it another twenty years.
 
Ah.... this was the occasion when good ol' JK got riproaringly drunk and ended up dancing on tables at the Hugo Awards ceremony, slurredly roaring, "HOGWARTS FOREVER!"

Or perhaps not. ;)

Actually this summarises a lot of the hoo-ha:

To summarize: Ooh, it's a Fantasy Book winning the (SF prize) Hugo*; and secondly, how dare good ol' JK win when she never even knew the award existed ('till she won it.)

*And yes, the Hugo is awarded for the best SF or Fantasy. ;)

Mark / Hobbit

Er, no. That's not what I meant. Although that quote was amusing as the second-highest book was A Storm of Swords (the deserved winner IMO), which probably would have had the SF crowd fuming as well, as indeed they did when American Gods and Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell went on to win in later years. They usually prefer inoffensive, MOR mediocre novels like Spin to get the nod for some reason.

After the Hugo Award was given to Rowling, she didn't bother collecting it or sending anyone to collect it. For three years. In the meantime she did a Goodkind-esque, "Oh, it's not Fantasy because it's got wizards and magic in it, it deals with real-life themes, so isn't Fantasy," spiel. However, she got slapped down for that by Pratchett, and eventually conceded that yes, hee books about phoenixes, dragons and magical academies was, in fact, Fantasy. She then sent a minion to collect her Hugo Award and said something like, "Yeah, whatever, thanks."

Worldcon never forgets ;)
 
My personal opinion is that Tolkien wrote the greatest epic fantasy in prose form, ever. It wasn't an accident either; he was an English scholar, and he had a specific interest in epics lie Beowulf. He knew what he was doing. Epics had vanished from literature for a century after Tennyson's Idylls of the King, and it was only with Tolkien's work that they became fashionable/possible again. He salvaged the epic tradition that had started all the way back with the Epic of Gilgamesh. Nobody can put a dent in that. Martin, Erikson, ect. wouldn't be here without him - at least not in same forms they have right now.

Elvis will lose his crown sooner than Tolkien.
 
Last edited:
Er, no. That's not what I meant. Although that quote was amusing as the second-highest book was A Storm of Swords (the deserved winner IMO), which probably would have had the SF crowd fuming as well, as indeed they did when American Gods and Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell went on to win in later years. They usually prefer inoffensive, MOR mediocre novels like Spin to get the nod for some reason.

After the Hugo Award was given to Rowling, she didn't bother collecting it or sending anyone to collect it. For three years. In the meantime she did a Goodkind-esque, "Oh, it's not Fantasy because it's got wizards and magic in it, it deals with real-life themes, so isn't Fantasy," spiel. However, she got slapped down for that by Pratchett, and eventually conceded that yes, hee books about phoenixes, dragons and magical academies was, in fact, Fantasy. She then sent a minion to collect her Hugo Award and said something like, "Yeah, whatever, thanks."

Worldcon never forgets ;)

I think it's awesome that she neglected to pick up her award. I love that JK is willing to snuff it to the Hugo's. Who needs THAT award to say the book is great.....the whole world bought copies of it millions of times over....that's good enough for her!

I'm sorry, but the Hugo awards, and the people involved in running them just bother me. The Hugo's are like the Oscars. Everyone is WAY to SERIOUS about them, and when they finally get announced, everyone gets all up in arms about who SHOULD have won ect. It's all a bunch of buggery bollocks, and I choose to spend my time looking to other awards for literature, and for fantasy....as they aren't so goddamned pretentious.

****ing Hugo's... (sorry Wert. :P )

Also, who was the person who said the Malazan series was too (and I effing quote....) "D & D-ish"?!?! Sorry...but what series are you reading? I wager anyone who calls the Malazan series D & D-ish.....has either not read it, or simply didn't pay attention. It's about as far as one can get from it.

Oh, and about this thread....yeah, Tolkien lost the fantasy crown years ago.....when I finally read the LOTR series, and thought that although it started something, it's WAY underpar with what has come out since. So, he may have been a pioneer, but really he has long ago lost the great and powerful masses.....in comparison, Dicken's was a pioneer too, he just never lost his crown.
 

Sponsors


We try to keep the forum as free of ads as possible, please consider supporting SFFWorld on Patreon


Your ad here.
Back
Top