I have this idea: gangsters fight with wands instead of guns

[rushking]

Tell me whether you think this idea is cool or gay. Basically I want to write a fantasy version of the Godfather. A lone hero fighting an evil mob boss/magician who enslaves a city with sex, drug and gambling. There will be fight scene in casinos, brothels and gladiatorial arenas. Rate this idea with 1 = poor to 5 = excellent.

 

[Eventine]

I assume by gay you mean happy, right?

I also assume you haven't read The Lies of Locke Lamora.

 

[lin]

I think by gay he means lame.

Your other assumption might mean something to him, or might not. Maybe you could amplify a little?

It's a cute idea, actually. And like most such ideas, you can either pull it off or not. Instead of Godfather, you might consider Guys and Dolls.

Or even Bugsy Siegel, where superior weaponry is the swing of the plot. (And in the remake, the child gangsters fight it out with pies) And who was that sleazy saloon singer? Why the pre-pubescent Jodi Foster.

 

[Eventine]

Sorry - that was me being snarky. I was fully aware that by saying gay he meant lame, however it was my overly-subtle way of pointing out it might be offensive.

The Lies of Locke Lamora is a fantasy novel with gangsters, drugs, gambling (can't remember if there's sex) and at least one fight scene in a gladiatorial arena. The follow up has a casino. Get where I'm going with this?

 

[Arash]

Sorry - that was me being snarky. I was fully aware that by saying gay he meant lame, however it was my overly-subtle way of pointing out it might be offensive.

The Lies of Locke Lamora is a fantasy novel with gangsters, drugs, gambling (can't remember if there's sex) and at least one fight scene in a gladiatorial arena. The follow up has a casino. Get where I'm going with this?

Scott Lynch stole Rushking's idea! The bastard!

 

[lin]

however it was my overly-subtle way of pointing out it might be offensive.

Interesting. I had wondered if anybody found this usage offensive. (I personally just consider it annoying and stupid) It's gotten pretty wide usage.

What will be interesting is to see which usage "wins out" in the long run. I mean calling homosexuals "gay" was also a pretty arbitrary thing and I always thought it was a lame tag to pick up.

So in two years will this be a fad that's over, or will the queer press and such have dropped the "gay" thing entirely?

 

[columbob]

I don't think it's just a fad. References to "gays and lesbians" are pretty well established and have been for ages. Gays for boys, lesbians for girls.
I've also heard the term gay being used instead of lame (usually by teenagers) for well over 10 years now, so I doubt that's a passing fad either.

 

[lin]

Ten years? Are you sure?

I don't think anybody would suggest that the use of "gay and lesbian" is a short term fad. But I see a lot more people using "queer" lately.

Actually I think the gay=lame thing will blow over. I just like to speculate on words changing their referents.

 

[KatG]

Tell me whether you think this idea is cool or gay. Basically I want to write a fantasy version of the Godfather. A lone hero fighting an evil mob boss/magician who enslaves a city with sex, drug and gambling. There will be fight scene in casinos, brothels and gladiatorial arenas. Rate this idea with 1 = poor to 5 = excellent.

Well, that isn't the story of the Godfather. If you're remaking the Godfather, then you would be telling the story of a son from a criminal family who was going on the straight and narrow, but then is drawn back into his family's business to protect them and ends up becoming the new head of the crime syndicate and not really a hero. Which could be very interesting.

As for a guy or gal going up against the Mob in a fantasy story, we do have lots of those. In the imaginary realm area, there is Lynch's work, which is the latest in underworld stories. There is also Mieville's Presidio St. Station. With a bit more of a satirical knack to it in an imaginary realm, there is Glen Cook's Garrett P.I. series and you could also say that his more famous Black Company series is sort of in the same line, though there it's despotic, powerful rulers rather than crime syndicates.

In supernatural and contemporary fantasy stories, the magical Mob is fairly common. Jim Butcher's Dresden Files isn't a bad recent one to check out, but there are many others. You also might want to try and rent some episodes of the television series "Angel," the spin-off from Buffy, particularly the episode in which Angel, an ensouled vampire, gets taken prisoner to fight in gladiatorial demon games for a crime organization.

That the wands for guns, or more often wands and guns, approach has been used before should not discourage you. If you are doing something interesting with characters and situation, it may do very well. Essentially, we can't rate it for you unless you write it and we read it. You will have to decide how interested you are in the concept.

 

[Arinth]

The idea doesn't grab my attention and make me want to read it, but again as it has been said, its all in the execution. You can turn a bad plot into a decent story, or you can ruin a brillant plot with bad execution. I say give it a try though. With all the similarities to Lynch's books that the other posters have mentioned, you may want to read through that too.


As to the gay=lame fad going out, I'm not to convinced that it will. There are lots of phrases that do spring up and die with a generation, but then there are some words which have survived for awhile now. How long has cool been around? Do you see that word dying anytime soon?

 

[lin]

No, because "cool" is cool. "Gay/lame" is lame.

Remember "phat"? "Fly"? "Ruff"?

 

[Shane]

I don't see gay = lame dying anytime soon. When most people say "that's gay" as in "that's lame" they're not really thinking gay = homosexuality is bad anymore. I know a lot of people who use that word (myself included), and I can't think of any of them who are homophobic or hateful towards gay people. A lot of them have gay friends, and hell, there are many, many gay people who'll say "that's gay."

I get the argument that even if you don't think about homosexuals = bad when you use the word that you're still participating in the endorsement of society's homophobia, but I just don't really agree anymore, and I think people need to lighten up. Which isn't to say that I agree with homophobia or that when I say lighten up I mean, care less about homophobia, I just mean lighten up. They're just words. Certainly there's such thing as bad intentions, but not bad words. Words only hurt the weak and over-sensitive.

 

[Phellim]

Its a fairly good idea... Not particularly new. Creative use of adjectives though.

3 1/2 out of 5.

 

[James Carmack]

What does it say when a considerable percentage of the conversation is about the word "gay" and the trends of its usage?

Well, I think the idea can be both cool and gay. Stylish homosexual wizard gangsters. I'm sure it'll be fabulous. ^o^ (Why does this almost sound like one of the ideas we were coming up with in the "Free Fiction" thread?)

 

[JBI]

Seeing as how fairies use wands, and wizard's use staffs, I assume you are a Harry Potter fan.

You don't need wands, just add magic, stop trying to be too "does this work", and just write it if it feels good to you. Try to be yourself and not to copy other people though. And Ps, if your maturity involves calling everything "gay" while using the term instead of meaning happy, as meaning a bigoted saying, than perhaps you should consider maturing before embarking on your literary career.

JBI

 

[Eventine]

Well, I think the idea can be both cool and gay. Stylish homosexual wizard gangsters. I'm sure it'll be fabulous. ^o^ (Why does this almost sound like one of the ideas we were coming up with in the "Free Fiction" thread?)

Queer Eye for the Magic Guy?

 

[James Carmack]

Something like that, but only if it involves knee-capping.

 

[lin]

This is nothing BIGOTED about saying "gay". It's just stupid.

I get really sick of people promiscuously tossing words like "bigot" and "racist" and "hate-monger" and stuff around. These words are also losing their definitions due to sloppy use and hysterical application.

 

[Miriamele]

Tell me whether you think this idea is cool or gay. Basically I want to write a fantasy version of the Godfather. A lone hero fighting an evil mob boss/magician who enslaves a city with sex, drug and gambling. There will be fight scene in casinos, brothels and gladiatorial arenas. Rate this idea with 1 = poor to 5 = excellent.

It's hard to rate the idea alone. Most story ideas, especially fantasy story ideas, sound a bit silly when reduced to a few sentences. What matters is how you write the story.

If you did a good job writing the story, creating the right atmosphere, showing interesting characters acting in believable ways, and using the right style of language for a gangster story I think it could be a very cool idea.

Of course you would want to make sure the wands were not covered in pink sparkles, or the story might become laughable (unless of course you want it to be a funny story). Perhaps you might consider the gangsters fighting with a different magical object other than a wand, which does have the connotation of fairies.

Let us know how the story goes.

 

[KatG]

The conversation about the word "gay" is off topic and has started to include personal insults, so everybody move on back to the gangsters, thanks very much.