Invitation Anthology 2021 Q1 (Help, Aux.)

[Matt H.]

This is an auxiliary thread, for help and questions related to the Invitation Anthology 2021 Q1

• co-coordinating requests for critiques
• questions (like "publishing" below)
• anything else that doesn't fit in the "setup" thread

 

[Matt H.]

Question about "publishing"

1. At what point are the stories in our Anthology considered "published" for the purposes of submission to other publications? Or, are they already "published" because they were posted in the story sub-forum? Would they be "published" if we just PDF-ed them and then posted a link here on SFFW for us all to review? I assume they'd definitely be published if we ebooked them and put as freebee on Amazon, right? Any simple/general explanation would help!

 

[KatG]

Well this has long been a complicated issue here on SFFWorld and elsewhere related to online web publishing and online self web publishing -- what counts as published and what does not and with who. Essentially, a story is technically published when you, the author, put it in whole form somewhere that the general public can access and read it, whether it's free or for sale, especially if you present it as a finished piece. So if an author put a story on their blog online, say, that was an online electronic publication of the story, the author exercising their production rights in their own creation. Doing so did not mean that the author could not then publish the story again in some other form of self-publishing or license production rights in the story to another entity, for a financial arrangement or for only publication license and credit.

But with publication in magazines, newspapers or anthologies, these sorts of publications are called serial publication rights in the work and there are first serial rights and second serial rights. First serial rights is the first publication of the work and second serial is the subsequent publications of the work (reprint.) (There are also first and second serial rights in the work in other languages, so you could have a first serial publication in English and potentially a first serial publication in French though the French publication might instead also be considered second serial publication, depending on licensing agreements.) Some publications -- magazines and anthologies -- want to only have stories that have not been published before -- first serial -- and they want to have that first serial publication therefore as exclusive only to them. Others, and a lot of anthologies do this, are fine with second serial publication (reprint) which is always obviously non-exclusive.

Whether or not a publication that might license a story will see an author's publication of a story on their blog or on a platform/site like SFFWorld as a first serial publication or not depends mainly on the publication in our Internet age of thirty years now. A lot of them don't count it, positioning first serial as only when there has been a licensing agreement of some sort for displaying/producing the work and/or if the author or site asked for money for the story as a commercial publication. But some publications might consider it a first publication and therefore that only second serial reprint rights to the story are available and they may or may not want the story thereby. It's become more common to not count the putting up of stories by the author as first serial unless you do go offer it on a commercial platform like Amazon, but again, it depends on the publication.

Here at SFFWorld, Dag, the owner of the site, has the position of no financial or licensing interest in the stories that are put up on the site. We do not consider stories put in our Stories Sub-Forum (or art work in the Art Forum,) to be owned/licensed by Dag/SFFWorld in any way or to count as a first serial publication. The forums are a discussion, not a publication site. Stories in the Story Sub-Forum are considered to be placed there as working manuscripts, not finished pieces/publications, put there for review and editorial feedback, even though the public can access them online. That includes the stories that are placed there for the contests that developed in the Writing Forum. But, SFFWorld has also had the position that they are not responsible if the author puts a story in our Story Sub-Forum and a publication decides that's a first serial publication. We are hands off and it's the author's choice. With the development of various story submission sites at publishers and such, again, it's unlikely that most publications would see your putting a working ms. on the Story Sub-Forum as a first serial publication these days. We just can't guarantee it.

The past anthologies developed on their own out of the denizens of the Writing Forum wanting to do them. They have not involved the Story Sub-Forum and are simply organized in the Writing Forum. They are essentially affiliated with SFFWorld and the site is happy to put word out when they are published, but SFFWorld does not publish the anthologies or usually financially back them and not all of the contributors are members of SFFWorld. The editor of the anthologies -- first Nila and then Andrew -- handled getting a major author to contribute a story for pay (first or second serial rights depending on the story,) and the finances for putting together the anthology and publishing it for sale on Amazon electronically mainly. There is a licensing contract for the stories in the anthologies but it's with the editor of the anthology, not SFFWorld.

For what you are trying to do with the invitation anthology, the stories being in the Story Sub-Forum and available for critique would be the same as when any author puts up a story in the Story Sub-Forum -- SFFWorld does not consider it a publication on their site but instead sharing a working ms. (Others may or may not agree depending on who you go to with the piece for licensing subsequently.) If you gather the stories up as a full anthology and offer it to others for free or for a price, it would be considered a first serial publication of the stories by most as an anthology (separate from SFFWorld again.)

Flash fiction, which is what I think you all are doing with these, is short and so publications that publish flash fiction often do a lot of second serial reprint licensing so even if the invitation anthology is seen as a publication, it's probably not a huge problem. But it is something you have to look at. Run down for me how/what you're planning with the actual anthology part and we can narrow down how it might be viewed.

 

[Matt H.]

Thanks a million as usual, Kat! It was an education on the complicated part, but you got me clear answers to my questions too. I appreciate it.

To keep it as brief as possible (wouldn't want to inflict that mess of a "setup" thread on you), in interests of speed and simplicity, we're doing a subless, editorless, loosely themed, modified "showcase" antho. There are 5 of us for issue 1. We will each have a block of about 5,000 words for 3-5 stories. Each writer creates a catchy sub-theme tag for his/her own stories. The issues is "dark" themed, so an example of a section might be "crones and bones" or whatever. Each writer is responsible for his/her own text. The only means of enforcing quality we are using is an appeal to writerly conscience

So, we'll have something less than 25,000 words, and roughly 15-16 stories? We originally had planned a themed pub in which the stories were mixed up by author. It might be better, but our current plan is too much easier.

So, first step is getting a semi-final draft to see what we have, then I believe Andrew has agreed to do some artwork and also to do formatting (We could still honestly use an outside proofer too...).

Once we have a "final" digital file, we, as a group will decide how we want to proceed - embook, Amazon, etc. Sorry, but pretty ignorant about that part. We would love to have any support at all from you and other "Sr. Folks" (terrible phrase, but all I can come up with!) , even if it's just a passive head-nod. If you can offer more, including advice, input, etc. I would definitely be open to it.

The antho is for the hard-working forumites (of all levels, genres, strengths, etc.), that show up and contribute to the site! It's self-run, democratic and inclusive (and tries its best to do whatever is possible to promote quality) Once we got it down, it could be ongoing and fairly low-effort.

(added)

To clarify antho is especially for our user-writers who paritipate in the Flash and Micro contests, not of course as a substitute for subbing to publications, but as an additional possible vehicle. A good portion of the stories will have also been Flash contest entries. Almost all of them will have been posted here in the stories forum.

 

[KatG]

Okay, so what you are doing is a collection anthology, similar to what happens when two or more authors decided to collect their stories together as a short story collection work. The stuff you are doing here on SFFWorld is working ms. stuff and organizing, not publication. And then the collaborators on the collection will decide how they want to publish it and offer it to the public as a bound collection anthology. Once you've done that, in paper print and/or electronically/audio, that will be first serial publication for all the stories unless any of the contributor/collaborators has licensed any of the stories to some other publication before, in which case that particular story will be a reprint, second serial publication.

So what you are going to need, in addition to Andrew's help on the logistics of actually putting it into some form, is a collaborators agreement if you decide to publish the anthology, even if it's being offered to the public for free. A collaborators agreement is similar to an anthology agreement except that instead of it being between an anthology editor/publisher and the contributors to the anthology for licensed serial rights, it would be an agreement between all of the authors in the collection anthology as collaborators. The contract can be simple but it needs to spell out the licensing publication rights for the stories that the contributors are granting/contributing to the production of the anthology and it needs to spell out how author credits will be done and applied in the anthology. And if you are going to be selling the anthology for a fee, then the collaborators agreement needs to specify how monies from the sales will be collected and distributed among the collaborating contributors. The contract will need to specify that the anthology does not hold long term exclusive rights to the content (that the authors can second serial license or self-publish the stories wherever and whenever they want,) and who decides what the cover and formatting will look like and the chosen price amount if there is one. And you will need some sort of basic out of print language regarding when the anthology is no longer being available for download/sale regarding termination/reversion of rights in the stories in the form of the collection as a whole.

Since this is sort of an unusual form of collection anthology, you'll probably need to look for a collaborator contract model and adapt it. Work out what you want together and use some models (do a search, see if SFWA has any,) and I'll look it over for you once you adapted it. And then before you do any actual publication, you'll want everybody to sign off on that finalized agreement. It sounds like a lot, but it does save you problems as everyone will know how it's going to work and their author rights protected.

 

[Matt H.]

Thank you. I guess we should do that in order to avoid loose ends later. I found this one on SFWA. It seems to be exactly what you're referring to. Ouch it's long! lol... But I guess it will be part of my writer-education to study it. Hope it doesn't freak out the others I will bring it up at an opportune time. (Or maybe I should do it now?)

Appreciate very much your help with this. I could try to look all this up and am willing to do some work but sure is easier with guidance!

(added) Sorry re overload...

1. Let's say we get the final text together and format it and just PDF it for our own review as an interim step. Is that still published, and requires the agreement still?
   
   
2. I see this contract model requires name, address and even SSN/NIN. Is it possible to draft a valid contract/agreement without that info? Or not really?
   
   
3. Do I have the rigth model? Seems to be for a real collaborative (co-authored) work, but ours are all individual stories, not collaborations. Does that not matter because they are being published together?
   
   
4. I'm U.S., 3 others are U.K., and 1 Norway(?) What are the implications?
   
   
5. If we went without an agreement (aside from grant first rights), would it just be dumb (legally), or would it be illegal\illicit, etc?
   
   
6. Hard time imagining an easy way to adapt that contract... What about a "memo of understanding" in everyday, non-legal speak?
   
   
7. Didn't quite get this "...and it needs to spell out how author credits will be done and applied in the anthology. " Can you clue me on that?

Whatever you have time to help with will be greatly appreciated!

 

[KatG]

I'll take a look at it when I can. But to answer the questions:

1. Let's say we get the final text together and format it and just PDF it for our own review as an interim step. Is that still published, and requires the agreement still?

No, the PDF would be no different from a Word file and it would be the working manuscript of the collection anthology. The only thing that would be the publication is when you put it as an electronic file up for download on Amazon and any other vendor site.

I see this contract model requires name, address and even SSN/NIN. Is it possible to draft a valid contract/agreement without that info? Or not really?

You may need to have name and address. You don't need the SSN/NIN as you are not taking payments for the work when you offer it and taxes won't be involved. If some of the contributors don't want to provide their names and addresses, they could use a penname and have an email address as an address, but usually for this kind of contract, you need an actual legal name (name used for copyright as this is a publication) and a mailing address. You wouldn't need to use it for what you are doing. It would be a record in case it was needed later on.

Do I have the right model? Seems to be for a real collaborative (co-authored) work, but ours are all individual stories, not collaborations. Does that not matter because they are being published together?

Like I said, you have to adapt it. I'll take a look at it and see about adjusting the language. It should be a much simpler, shorter agreement than a full collaboration agreement.

I'm U.S., 3 others are U.K., and 1 Norway(?) What are the implications?

None, since again you aren't offering it for payment. I don't know how Amazon handles territory rights on self-pub works, so the work might only be available in the U.S. and U.K. maybe or it may be globally. One issue is if Amazon is going to charge you all for putting the book up for free download. If there are fees from Amazon, then you'll have to work out how those are going to be paid and by who. Andrew may be able to help with that info.

If we went without an agreement (aside from grant first rights), would it just be dumb (legally), or would it be illegal\illicit, etc?

It would not be illegal or illicit. The agreement is a suggestion not a requirement. It's just to make it clear for all contributors and have a license record of their contributing their story (and the serial rights thereby) to the collaborative anthology. Legally it's a good idea, in case any of the contributors has issues later, but no one is going to care if you don't have one.

Hard time imagining an easy way to adapt that contract... What about a "memo of understanding" in everyday, non-legal speak?

It's probably way more complicated than what you need. A memo of understanding is closer to what you need. Essentially, you'd do a slightly more elaborate permissions form.

Didn't quite get this "...and it needs to spell out how author credits will be done and applied in the anthology. "

It needs to be stated how the authors will be credited in the anthology. Author X will be contributing Work Y and Z (titles) and be credited on the front page of each story or similar. You know how you've been figuring out the structure for the anthology? That needs to be stated in the agreement re the authors' names appearing. It can be a very simple, one sentence statement per author.

 

[Matt H.]

Thank you for that all and for your thoroughness.

SFF World Tie-Ins

Btw, about the Anthos "tie-ins" to SFF World -- you saw that the title we have planned is "SFF World Forumite Fiction - Dark Tales Vol. I" so assuming there's no problem with that title?

It does make it sound rather like the antho is affiliated with the site. From my perspective that's a good thing for us writers. But I guess you'll tell me that there is no true affiliation between the two (?). If there is no problem, how far can we take it? (blurb about the site, links, logo, etc.) It's in no way definitive to what we're doing (and I don't have vote of others), but for us at this point it's not a bad thing to appear affiliated even if we're officially not (?). Let me know any thoughts. No rush on this one. We can make these adjustments in the digital text at a later stage.

 

[KatG]

I will have to check with Hobbit and Dag about that issue. It's probably not a big problem, but we'll see what Dag wants to do. This is a private site owned by him.

 

[Matt H.]

Thanks, understood. Want to go ahead with antho regardless, but in co-ordination with any wishes or prefernces the Site might have (if you have them). We can do it without reference to the site too. But of course the antho would certainly not exist without the site. Lmk what you find out, whenever is convenient.

 

[KatG]

Okay, so I looked at the Collaborators sample agreement and that was not going to work for you, so I looked at SFWA's Anthology model contract and that's closer but also is difficult to adapt because like most agreements, it's an agreement between two parties and that's not really what you all are doing. You are collectively working together and Matt H. is kind of the editor of the anthology, but not really, more of a compiler/organizer. Matt is not licensing the stories from the other authors.

So what I would suggest is that, rather as you've been doing in the forum threads, when you've worked out the stories and are ready to put everything together and load them onto platforms for free download that Matt does a statement of intent by email to all the collaborating contributing authors that specifies: 1) what you all are doing in the project/what the project is (including its working title) as a collaborative anthology; 2) that it is electronic self-publication only of non-exclusive serial rights granted by the contributors/co-authors; 3) has a time limit on how long the collaborative anthology will be offered for download (term of license); 4) states which electronic platforms/vendors the anthology will be offered on (Amazon or Amazon plus others); 5) states how authors will be credited in the electronic anthology for the stories; 6) states that no payment is made to the contributing authors for their stories nor will the anthology be offered for a sales price in any form; 7) that the authors retain all copyright in the stories and are the sole authors of their works; 8) that the stories will not be altered except for basic copyediting and formatting; and 9) that the anthology will be formatted and uploaded by a specific time period after all stories are collected (6 months to a year,) to be extended if collective authors agree. And then the authors can send an email back to Matt that they have read and agree electronically to all those stated conditions. That's a very basic thing that would probably serve for what you are doing.

(Can't remember, Matt, if you are one of the people who have problems with Direct Messaging in the SFFWorld forum, so let me know on that, as that's how you would collect the contributing authors' email addresses to do this and other communications you'll need for the anthology.)

And again, if Amazon or another vendor you want to offer the anthology on charges a fee for it even if it's a free download, you all will have to work out how you're going to do that in the stated agreement as well.

Working on the title thing.

 

[Matt H.]

Thank you, Kat! I will keep all that in mind and prepare to draft the 9 point statement you outlined above. I appreciate the thought and work you did to help us.

My PM/direct message works fine now... (Ping and file upload are still out though)

Let me know when you hear anything about SFFW tie-ins, title, etc. Thanks again, Kat!

 

[KatG]

Ok, Dag says that he thinks it's tentatively okay, as long as SFFWorld has no legal liability whatsoever and that is made clear.

So you can probably proceed but have some sort of Acknowledgements page or disclaimer that SFFWorld is not the producer or affiliated, that you simply came together in that locale. You might also just want to come up with another name for the group but see how it goes.

 

[Matt H.]

Thanks Kat. So come up with another name instead of "SSF World Forumite Fiction"? Do you mean as a backup, or as a preference? What about links, blurb, etc? If it's easier to drop any reference to SFF World we can do that too.

 

[KatG]

As a back-up maybe. He's okay with you using the SFFWorld Forumnites as long as you have something in the book saying SFFWorld has no affiliation and no legal involvement in the anthology. That may be something you don't want to bother with, so you could just change the group/title name.

I'm not sure what you mean by links and blurbs. We will probably make forum members aware of the book when it comes out and Hobbit might be willing to review it for SFFWorld's main site, which could give you a blurb. That we'd have to see though.

 

[Matt H.]

Thanks. Kat. I meant a blurb about SFFW. (paragraph describing/promoting site, etc.) as well as link/web address. I have no problem of course with a disclaimer, though wouldn't know the exact language to use...

 

[KatG]

I'm not sure that Dag wants such a blurb but that can be discussed once you are ready to go.

 

[Matt H.]

Got it, thanks, Kat. Will let you know of our plans. Might be easier at this point to ommit the connection with SFF World completely. I gave it that name because I originally conceived the antho as a PDF to share on this site (non-"published"). I understand the need to be free of complications. Will advise the group.

 

[Matt H.]

Kat, would it make any difference if we let a trusted group of SFF World editors (staff, others) have editorial authority over antho? (work with us to achieve at least a "minimum quality" standard) Just a total hypothetical, (*don't worry, not trying to commit anyone to work!* ).

Right now we have got the text together in close-to-final form, minus one writer, (with a few alternate stories each).

If we did this could we go more official SFF World? I could try to get a new contract together. Or still no? (Is this just not the issue)

 

[KatG]

1) Dag does not want to be the publisher of your collective anthology. That involves licensing issues, legal liability issues, expenses, etc. SFFWorld is a private SFFH fan site with news and reviews and a long-going discussion forum. He started it as a hobby experiment years ago and people liked it, so he sells enough ads to cover the expenses of keeping it up and then a bunch of volunteers help out with things like moderation and site logistics and/or do reviews for the main site. We don't do merch basically.

2) None of the volunteer staff have the time to be the editor of the anthology and publish it. You are basically it. I'm sure that Andrew will give advice as he can about putting it together and getting it up on Amazon. Hereford Eye has also done some self-pub collections and might have some advice and some other members have self-published. But this is a collaborative project of you all.

3) You are doing a collaborative anthology that is essentially a short story collection with multiple authors. When you have it up, we will let forum members know and maybe something on the main site as well. We'll cheer you on and you can also put up something in the Promotion Zone forum. But it's not SFFWorld's project.