Is 1 more WOT novel enough?

[Steve Brickman]

Am I the only one that thinks 1 more WOT novel, A Memory of Light, is not going to be enough to finish up the story?
If Brandon Sanderson can write the end of the story as well as RJ could have done, maybe he shouldn't have to try to cram it all in to 1 book, and should go for another 2 or 3 books?
It's just that with all the plots/subplots etc that were occuring in the last few books, surely trying to tie them all together and give us a decent ending to the series is going to take longer than just one book??
I for one would be much happier if the WOT series was finished in another 2 or 3 books, AMOL could be spent just tidying up and killing off some of the non-core plots, then another 2 books could be spent on Tarmon Gaidon (I think thats how its spelt, my apologies if not), and a bit of an epilogue?
Anyway, am I alone on this one?
We've waited long enough for the series to conclude, I think it would be a shame if the last book crammed so much into it that it doesn't "fit" with the rest of the series..

 

[Fred Gallney]

Am I the only one that thinks 1 more WOT novel, A Memory of Light, is not going to be enough to finish up the story?
If Brandon Sanderson can write the end of the story as well as RJ could have done, maybe he shouldn't have to try to cram it all in to 1 book, and should go for another 2 or 3 books?
It's just that with all the plots/subplots etc that were occuring in the last few books, surely trying to tie them all together and give us a decent ending to the series is going to take longer than just one book??
I for one would be much happier if the WOT series was finished in another 2 or 3 books, AMOL could be spent just tidying up and killing off some of the non-core plots, then another 2 books could be spent on Tarmon Gaidon (I think thats how its spelt, my apologies if not), and a bit of an epilogue?
Anyway, am I alone on this one?
We've waited long enough for the series to conclude, I think it would be a shame if the last book crammed so much into it that it doesn't "fit" with the rest of the series..

Yes, I think you are alone for the moment that Wheel of Time needs more than one book.

Consider: The Eye of the World was published back in 1990; 18 years past. The last book, Knife of Dreams, was published back in 2005. It is now half way through 2008. A Memory of Light is schneduled for publication early, to mid next year (2009). That's four years since the last WoT book went live across the world.

Consider: Robert Jordan had originally planned the series to be five to six books maximum. Then, he expanded it until what it is today - eleven huge tomes, some of which exceed a thousand pages, none of which are less than 600 pages!!!

Also, Robert Jordan has said time and again that only the major plot lines will be resolved. Some of the minor plotlines will not be tied up nicely, as that makes the world seem like all of its problems are solved. RJ has said that the last scene of A memory of Light will contain what some might think as a hook into another series in the Wheel of Time world.

 

[Evil Agent]

I heard that Sanderson recently admitted that aMoL may be split into two volumes. I think that's the most we'll possibly get. I think it's too late now to hope for multiple volumes dealing with Tarmon Gaidon. Maybe if Jordan had done things differently, and started tying things together by Book 7 or so, it may have happened. But now I think two volumes is the most we will get.

On a side note, I think it's quite funny that Jordan said the subplots may not all be tied up. I have to say I'm okay with that, as I'm mostly concerned with the main storyline, but won't that make the subplots seem even more like unecessary filler?

 

[Fred Gallney]

On a side note, I think it's quite funny that Jordan said the subplots may not all be tied up. I have to say I'm okay with that, as I'm mostly concerned with the main storyline, but won't that make the subplots seem even more like unecessary filler?

Well, no, because then its up (the readers) to speculate what happened with the unresolved sub-plots. So, its not really unnecessary - you could almost say it makes the series more realistic.

 

[Steve Brickman]

Consider: The Eye of the World was published back in 1990; 18 years past. The last book, Knife of Dreams, was published back in 2005. It is now half way through 2008. A Memory of Light is schneduled for publication early, to mid next year (2009). That's four years since the last WoT book went live across the world.

Yeah well, I'm playing the waiting game on another series which shall remain nameless, and by the time that ones done I'll be old and gray...so another 2 WOT books wouldn't bother me..

Also, Robert Jordan has said time and again that only the major plot lines will be resolved. Some of the minor plotlines will not be tied up nicely, as that makes the world seem like all of its problems are solved. RJ has said that the last scene of A memory of Light will contain what some might think as a hook into another series in the Wheel of Time world.

Ew, not looking forward to the hook into another series, especially if it's not coming, I hope Sanderson dispenses with that idea.


I heard that Sanderson recently admitted that aMoL may be split into two volumes. I think that's the most we'll possibly get. I think it's too late now to hope for multiple volumes dealing with Tarmon Gaidon. Maybe if Jordan had done things differently, and started tying things together by Book 7 or so, it may have happened. But now I think two volumes is the most we will get.

Another 2 volumes sounds ok, i hope thats how it pans out...

On a side note, I think it's quite funny that Jordan said the subplots may not all be tied up. I have to say I'm okay with that, as I'm mostly concerned with the main storyline, but won't that make the subplots seem even more like unecessary filler?

I agree 100%, after all the effort to write it, and then for us to read it, (and lets face it, the 2nd last book WAS a bit of an effort, to then totally pass over all the subplots and leave them out would make it seem like pointless filler..

 

[Werthead]

The only specific thing RJ has ever mentioned (don't remember the hook into another series thing at all) is the suggestion that events in the Seanchan Empire after KoD won't be covered in the final book. Instead, he was planning to write a single novel set ten years later dealing with Mat, Tuon and the rebuilding of Seanchan.

Sanderson has also said that the semi-planned two 'outrigger' novels, of which the Seanchan book is one and the story of Tam al'Thor is the other, had some very detailed notes left behind, not far short of those for AMoL, and if AMoL is well-received and Harriet is happy with the results, he would consider writing those books as well.

 

[Sonja Ravenscroft]

I think it might be an idea to resolve the main plot in the final book, and maybe through response find out which remaining subplots people want to be resolved. I'll be honest I probably have to read the books again just to find out half the subplots.

I'm disappointed that the Seanchan won't be resolved in this book, that was one of the few subplots that really hooked me.

Asking another "am I the only one" question: Am I the only one who was expecting the "War of The Tower" to be an incredible magic slinging, epic battle between the two forces of the Aes Sedai? I was disappointed after what seemed a great buildup that it kind of fell flat(please note I haven't read the last two books, so if that puts my argument to shame, so be it )

 

[ChrisW]

Well a battle between the two sides was never going to happen. You might get some magic slinging when/if the Seanchan get around to attacking the Tower and the Black Ajah make there move or get outed.

 

[mjolnir]

I'm slightly mystified by the idea that any given subplot of the WoT, or the main story itself for that matter, should consist of long strings of world-shattering action sequences. I mean, I'll welcome them when they come, and having seen scenes like the battle for the Stone, Rand's campaign in Altara, and the cleansing of the One Power we know RJ can throw down when he has to. But I don't think they're essential or particularly reflect the purpose of the story. The Aes Sedai, for instance, while they're opposing each other at the moment, probably don't really want to fight. [The Three Oaths also forbid them to do so, unless they're all secretly Darkfriends which I doubt very much.] I have thus far viewed the War of the White Tower as more of a clash of wills between the opposing sisters, punctuated by intrigue-based plot questions such as who Mesaana is, -- [I think I had a notion at one point, but it's been a while], -- whether Siuan etc will ever figure out what Aran'gar is doing, and how Elaida will be brought down from within.

As for the question of whether one more novel is enough ... that's honestly a difficult one for me. I'm afraid I can't agree that the series needs two books for Tarmon Gaidon alone. A hundred pages, perhaps, but not two books. Right now, as far as I can tell, some plotlines have quite a bit further to go than others before everybody's lined up for the Last Battle. Elayne and Perrin seem pretty much squared away, though I could see Perrin having to do something in order to get the wolves together for the big day. Mat and Egwene seem to have farther to go. Mat has to do some more warring with the Seanchan, and go into the realm of the aelfinn and bring Moiraine back out. Egwene has to gain control of the tower from Elaida, and, [according to some admittedly murky visions early in the series], purge the Black Ajah. Oh, and the Seanchan are supposed to attack the Tower. Rand seems like he could leave for the Blight tomorrow in all practical terms, but I don't think his emotional arc is complete. Some of these plot points also raise the question of time: namely how much of it is Memory going to cover? Egwene and Mat's plots sound like they could take months or half a year, far longer than most previous books in the series have stretched. Despite being a long novel KoD, for example, spanned only weeks. Also, while it's true that we might expect events to accelerate for purposes of dramatic build-up towards the end, what with the series's customarily leisurely pace I'm afraid that things will feel unbalanced and very rushed if Sanderson takes it too fast.

On the other hand, RJ said one book. And I, as a reader, am ready and more than ready for conclusion. I do not want five more books, or four more books. I do not think so many more could be written without the plotlines becoming totally disconnected in people's minds, both from each other and from any kind of dramatic tension. And Brandon Sanderson says that they've found a way to tell the remaining story in one book. So yeah, I think one more book could be enough, but it's not a guaranteed thing. I think it can be done, but in terms of balance, and pace, and giving these plots we've been reading so long their due in one volume it's going to be a tricky proposition and I hope Sanderson knows what he's doing. [He's got Jordan's widow and assistants to guide him and advise, and he's a pretty fine writer himself, so I think there's lots of reason to hope.]

That being said I think the book, if done right, is going to be genuinely huge. Bigger, perhaps, than Sanderson suspected originally. It's impossible to look at all that must be covered if readers are going to be satisfied and not see a behemoth. Hence, I imagine, the announcement that the book might be split.

And as for the outrigger volumes ... I'd love to hear more of Mat and Tuon, but let's get through AMoL first.
________
WENDIE 99

 

[Fred Gallney]

As for the question of whether one more novel is enough ... that's honestly a difficult one for me. I'm afraid I can't agree that the series needs two books for Tarmon Gaidon alone. A hundred pages, perhaps, but not two books. Right now, as far as I can tell, some plotlines have quite a bit further to go than others before everybody's lined up for the Last Battle. Elayne and Perrin seem pretty much squared away, though I could see Perrin having to do something in order to get the wolves together for the big day. Mat and Egwene seem to have farther to go. Mat has to do some more warring with the Seanchan, and go into the realm of the aelfinn and bring Moiraine back out. Egwene has to gain control of the tower from Elaida, and, [according to some admittedly murky visions early in the series], purge the Black Ajah. Oh, and the Seanchan are supposed to attack the Tower. Rand seems like he could leave for the Blight tomorrow in all practical terms, but I don't think his emotional arc is complete. Some of these plot points also raise the question of time: namely how much of it is Memory going to cover? Egwene and Mat's plots sound like they could take months or half a year, far longer than most previous books in the series have stretched. Despite being a long novel KoD, for example, spanned only weeks. Also, while it's true that we might expect events to accelerate for purposes of dramatic build-up towards the end, what with the series's customarily leisurely pace I'm afraid that things will feel unbalanced and very rushed if Sanderson takes it too fast.

And, it might not have had to be so, if Jordan had begun to wrap things up; or at least move them along at a faster pace in earlier books (such as Lord of Chaos or at the very latest, Crown of Swords).

Now that you've brought that notion into the light about all the plot threads that needs to have conclusions, I'm thinking to myself - "Oh, Gosh. Another damn 12 books until we reach Tarmon Gaiden."

That being said I think the book, if done right, is going to be genuinely huge. Bigger, perhaps, than Sanderson suspected originally. It's impossible to look at all that must be covered if readers are going to be satisfied and not see a behemoth. Hence, I imagine, the announcement that the book might be split.

As long as they're published at exactly the same time - or at the very most, within a few months of each other. If its more, I will be seriously annoyed. I mean, I only read the entire series early this year; I don't know how painful it must be if you've been with WoT since the beginning, but I sure am impatient for the last book.

And as for the outrigger volumes ... I'd love to hear more of Mat and Tuon, but let's get through AMoL first.

From what RJ said of Mat and Tuon, obviously they survive the Last Battle, and obviously if their story goes on 10 years from the Last Battle, then Rand prevails and Shai'tan is defeated.

 

[Sonja Ravenscroft]

As long as they're published at exactly the same time - or at the very most, within a few months of each other. If its more, I will be seriously annoyed. I mean, I only read the entire series early this year; I don't know how painful it must be if you've been with WoT since the beginning, but I sure am impatient for the last book.



From what RJ said of Mat and Tuon, obviously they survive the Last Battle, and obviously if their story goes on 10 years from the Last Battle, then Rand prevails and Shai'tan is defeated.

What was painful for me was how the last couple of books that I read really dragged, and there was a lot being said but not much actually happening(IMO), and I wondered when the story would pick up again-like I said though I haven't read the last two books, went onto other books, and my head was hurting from trying to remember so many subplots

Does anyone know if RJ had all these plotlines laid out when he wrote WOT(he was only supposed to write 5-6 books originally, correct?)

Did the story/characters just get away from him?

 

[Werthead]

At Worldcon apparently Sanderson admitted that he's now looking at 500,000-600,000 words for AMoL. The Shadow Rising, at 394,000 words, was the previous-longest book in the series. Given that TSR was over 1,000 pages in paperback and approaching the limit of how big a paperback can be, it's looking likely that the novel will be split for publication. Not 100% and maybe it'll just be the paperback that's split, not the hardcover (my speculation, not the author's), but it's lookingly more likely that it'll be 13 books than 12.

 

[Fred Gallney]

At Worldcon apparently Sanderson admitted that he's now looking at 500,000-600,000 words for AMoL. The Shadow Rising, at 394,000 words, was the previous-longest book in the series. Given that TSR was over 1,000 pages in paperback and approaching the limit of how big a paperback can be, it's looking likely that the novel will be split for publication. Not 100% and maybe it'll just be the paperback that's split, not the hardcover (my speculation, not the author's), but it's lookingly more likely that it'll be 13 books than 12.

No, 5 to 6 hundred thousand words for AMoL is not long enough at all...gosh, we must remember to devote 200 pages to a character having a cup of tea and talking about what their favorite food is and why...

But if it is going to be that long...its insane.

 

[JohnH]

Am I the only one that thinks 1 more WOT novel, A Memory of Light, is not going to be enough to finish up the story?

I would definitely agree if Jordan were still living and able to write.

If Brandon Sanderson can write the end of the story as well as RJ could have done, maybe he shouldn't have to try to cram it all in to 1 book, and should go for another 2 or 3 books?

The problem lies here of course. I'm not convinced Sanderson can do a credible job let alone a good one. As well as? Not going by the Sanderson books I have read and enjoyed. As it is the purist in me considers WoT to be unfinished and remain that way. The compromiser in me see the possibility of some day either getting something that focuses on Jordan's work on aMoL or the re-vamped encyclopedia that his wife was contracted to do as the true closure of the series. Taking it further than what Jordan had outlined I find very troubling. Jordan seemed adamant, even with his decision to let someone finish the series, that his world, his creation not be sampled and franchised out. I would and do strongly hope that remains the case. Assuming beyond what Jordan wanted wrapped up would go in that direction in my opinion.

It's just that with all the plots/subplots etc that were occuring in the last few books, surely trying to tie them all together and give us a decent ending to the series is going to take longer than just one book??

There are several things about the whole "one book" that struck me and still strikes me as outright silly. And I include Jordan in this. Maybe his sudden and firm stance on just one more book was due to his suspicions or even knowledge of his pending mortality. While he was very candid, it would not surprise me to find out he know a bit longer than was revealed. And I hardly hold that against him if that were the case.

If it wasn't his sense that he was running on a stricter deadline than he thought, I think he was just plain silly. I think the ending should have been approached with the same philosophy and style he approached the rest of the series after tGH. It takes what it takes. Seeing at how little he actually had written of the book when he died, it just seems so incredibly silly to hamper and limit yourself. This was after he decided to do the follow up books and that might have also played a part in his decision. I'm still struck at how determined he was to produce just one more book which seemed antithetical to his approach in how he decided where to end the book he was working on.

Sanderson seemed to think, as well as countless fans it seems, that somehow Jordan's comment is a law. So hearing about the split doesn't upset me in the least. Especially since whatever Jordan might have decided to shift to the follow up books or explore in the prequels should he ever have gotten the chance to write the remaining two will most likely remain unknown. The idea that there is apparently a deadline that Sanderson seems worried about more than I think he should be? Is a whole other issue.

I for one would be much happier if the WOT series was finished in another 2 or 3 books, AMOL could be spent just tidying up and killing off some of the non-core plots, then another 2 books could be spent on Tarmon Gaidon (I think thats how its spelt, my apologies if not), and a bit of an epilogue?
Anyway, am I alone on this one?
We've waited long enough for the series to conclude, I think it would be a shame if the last book crammed so much into it that it doesn't "fit" with the rest of the series..

In an ideal world, for me Jordan would be alive, we'd be one more book down and most likely one or even two to remain. So two or three would fit. I can handle the sense of the world going on, but I do think Jordan originally planned on wrapping more up than he later decided. And I think too many loose and never resolved plotlines would have been a cop out. I can deal with Galina's resolution. It is not tight and it is not an exact known ending. You have the sense that it reaches an endpoint without ending. I don't need to have all the bad guys get their comeuppance.

But I do want thorough resolution for actual plot developments that were truly developed. As it was, I felt certain areas were a bit rushed in KoD. Egwene's plotline felt truncated and more of a diarist approach than an actuall telling of her story. The richness and complexity of the various Tower plots was what enthralled for so many pages. And some type of resolution, even if it was just a plausible reaching of no resolution, would take a good half of a book at least for me to be satisfied. Same with the actual Last Battle. I would have loved to see Jordan provide the unfolding of such through the vast array of characters and settings as he did some of the other pivotal events. His ability to carry out action through multiple shifting points of view was always something I enjoyed. The Last Battle, however it played out, should in my opinion be all the more vaster than the battle at the walls of Cairhien, Dumai's Wells or the cleansing of the Taint.

So I guess two big books could work. Especially as I would imagine that there was enough ancillary storlyine to support a half book as well. Throw in whatever Jordan had in mind for a possible fall out and wrap up and I can see two easily. And two that are the longest of the series.

Sadly none of that is now going to happen. And if Sanderson screws it up, and chances are greater that he wil than he won't; he's simply not Robert Jordan -- no amount of homage is going to capture the style of the original. Less might well be more.

 

[Fred Gallney]

Why do you guys want the series to drag out even longer than it already does? If it so happens that we will be entreated to two large volumes of at least 1500 pages each, than the series will degrade entirely...even the foundation - The Eye of the World - will be lost, and the series will have an overall negative impact on the fantasy genre. KoD has set us up for the last battle - what more do we need? I personally don't care if some of the subplots are not resolved; Jordan never planned to wrap some of them up in the first place, anyway.

 

[JohnH]

Does it really matter so much why people have different takes and opinions on a matter? Do you really expect mass consensus as if there is a "right" and a "wrong" approach?

Just sit back and realize some, if not all of us, are simply not you.

Because if you can't gather why some of us hold the views we just expounded upon in quite a few words? More words aren't really going to do much for clarity's sake.

 

[Bond]

Why do you guys want the series to drag out even longer than it already does?

WoT is the best series out there. What fan wouldn't want more? Does it drag in places? Yes. But it is still the fullest realization of the traditional fantasy epic and it deserves an ending that measures up to what came before. True fans of the series would want a properly realized ending and a properly realized ending going by the cadence of the storytelling so far should probably take a couple more books. If all you want is an ending, any ending, then I don't think you really appreciate the series. WoT can work as crack and be approached with the mindset of a junkie that wants to get a quick fix or it can be appreciated like wine for its body and texture or maybe a better analogy is beer with its surprisingly complex flavor.

 

[molybdenum]

I don't see Brandon Sanderson messing the last book of the series up, because I don't see how much he can mess with. He has all of Jordan's notes as to what the plot is, so if we end up disappointed with the plot resolution it's Jordan's fault, not Sanderson's. His character development is actually quite good, judging by Mistborn. His prose is not so good, but it's not like he's going to have a lot of room for artistic language in a novel the size it's going to be. Unless he writes like a complete amateur, which he didn't do in Mistborn, I don't see that being a problem.
Maybe it won't have the same feel as it would if it was being written by Jordan, and may be considered slightly inferior as far as the delivery of the story goes, but at worst, I still don't see it being a mess. His own books are very good, so I don't see how he, using Jordan's notes, will be any less than that.

Edit:
Sorry about getting off topic as far as the thread goes.

 

[clockwirk]

What fan wouldn't want more?

The type of fan who used to love the series but at this point just wants it put out of it's misery. It's the proverbial dead horse that we need to stop beating. At this point, each additional book just lowers the quality of the series overall, so the fans who want to preserve the quality of what once was the greatest current series in fantasy are interested in seeing it end as quickly as possible.

 

[Fred Gallney]

WoT is the best series out there.

I would agree with you completely if the series had only been six books so far and stuck mainly to the core plot, but it doesn't. The series so far contain a thousand insignificant subplots, and too many characters. Both are impossible to keep track of. In my opinion, WoT is a litary disaster. It contains all the elements that aspiring fantasy writers should steer away from. It's a symbol in the fantasy genre of what not to do in anyway. I love the series, but it is not a proper fantasy epic...its something else, entirely.

What fan wouldn't want more?

Because enough is enough.


Does it drag in places? Yes. But it is still the fullest realization of the traditional fantasy epic and it deserves an ending that measures up to what came before. [/quote]

The Eye of the World is a traditional fantasy epic. The rest, especially Path of Daggers onwards is a complete waste.

True fans of the series would want a properly realized ending and a properly realized ending going by the cadence of the storytelling so far should probably take a couple more books.

That would be true if the series hadn't already spanned 11 books with thousands of words. Most of it is pointless. Maybe Book 12 can become like the Eye of the World - a fast-paced traditional fantasy book with a clashing ending. If there is oing to be more than one book, I think the publishers should seriously consider just putting their foot down and putting a stop to it all.

If all you want is an ending, any ending, then I don't think you really appreciate the series. WoT can work as crack and be approached with the mindset of a junkie that wants to get a quick fix or it can be appreciated like wine for its body and texture or maybe a better analogy is beer with its surprisingly complex flavor.

I don't want the series to go on forever. It should have finished three long volumes ago. If Book 12 is anything like Eye of the World, the series will probably become a classic. However, if two more volumes are like Book 10, it will quickly fade away...