Kate Elliott's Crown of Stars

I'll still buy and read it though.
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And that's why they love us... :p

Seriously, though, it's funny how often I've heard people say that very sentence on this board, myself included. Are fantasy readers especially loyal? Or perhaps just suckers! Or maybe authors know that we can't stand to not know the ending, so they suck us in with a few great books, and then feed us sh!te. :)
 
I don't consider myself a sucker though. Just because the story isn't resolved when I thought it should be isn't a very good reason not to buy a book - after all it's them writing it not me. If however I felt the quality of the story/writing was decreasing as it was being strung out for cash, well, I'd get stung once or twice before giving up. As it is though, I've enjoyed the series so far and if In The Ruins stings me for my cash, I'd probably persevere with Crown of Stars. If she decided she needed yet another book to finish after that (apart from Crown of Stars) alarm bells would start ringing.
 
I thought she had finished writing already and she had to split the last book into 2 parts and this is the first part.

oh and ASoIaF >>>>> CoS

there's way too many characters that you probably won't care about. but then again, I sorta skimmed most of the books so I will probably reread them again before reading the last books.
 
Evil Agent said:
Elliott is one author that I bought, based on some positive comments I heard on this site. Several people were comparing her books to the medieval setting in Martin's aSoIaF...

So anyway, I have the first 5 books sitting on my shelf (bought them used, for about $5-$6 each), but ever since I bought them I've started hearing more negative things.
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For what it's worth: I rate the Crown of Stars series pretty highly. That's on the basis of the volumes I've read so far, of course (up to and including Volume 5, Child of the Flame). If this helps: it's not Martin or Erikson, but I'd rate it marginally above, say, Janny Wurts's Wars of Light and Shadow.

For this reason, this post surprised me a bit. What surprised me especially was the remark that the new book, Into the Ruins, had no real plot development to speak of.

Now, the earlier books have their problems - but those aren't of the Jordan variety, so to speak. Rather, Elliot's problem seems to be not a lack of plot, but a lack of focus - the series went sprawling away into the wild blue yonder. The story, in other words, seemed to have gotten the better of her.

Now that's a criticism, I guess - but hardly a devastating one. So - as I said - I think I'll be reading Into the Ruins in due course. And I rather expect I might like it, too!
 
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I never got past the first book. It was *ok* but nothing to write home about, IMO. Plus, I couldn't see slogging through another long so-so series for little payoff.

BTW, if you look on Amazon you'll see that somebody loved In the Ruins!!! Our old friend.
 
Just finished the sixth book and am looking forward to the seventh. I'd feel sorry for those who feel cheated if it actually somehow impacted me in any way, but...

And I really wish before anyone utters yet again the blather about authors stretching a series as a money maker when it takes them two years or so to write a book to get themselves to an economics class for goodness sake. Or at least make sure to sign up at the community center for a free money management seminar. The idea that authors who make a living by their written work are simply selling out by writing so make coffee spurt out my nose at the sheer ridiculousness of it all. Authors like Lackey and McCaffrey and others who put out several mediocre works a year might be looked at in such a manner. But it is interesting that people make this accusation against authors they don't like (or like anymore) but then weep in outrage if the same accusation is brought against their own favored scribe.

And yes, the book was split due to size. If you want to scream about money, DAW is making much more money off the split than Miss Elliott is. But I have to stop now. Just the idea that an author might make money off their work is giving me the megrims!
 
I guess I look at it like this. The author and the publisher had a choice: edit down the book or split it into two. I didn't see much in the way of justification for the split.

If Elliott had only gotten this far and wanted to publish something, I'd feel ok, but the targeted publication dates are only about 7 months apart, and that probably driven most by marketing.

If Elliott has so much to say, I'd feel ok, but unlike GRR Martin, Elliott is not unfolding news depths to her story lines, characters, or world.

If you think Elliott will not profit more by two books published in hardcover so close together than by a single omnibus or hard-choice-edited version, there isn't much more to say. Of course the publisher will see more of the profit, but it is a win-win for them.

As for the "go take a seminar on x" attack, pffft.
 
Well, the last book let me down in several ways, I'll still read this one and I still like the series, but hopefully I wont' find In The Ruins to be so much of a burn as you. Got lots to tide me over for now anyways :D.

I think I've mentioned similarities before, for me at spots, yeah Crown of Stars is phenominal. For my money I'd say there's lots of it that I like better than Erickson, if only for the reason that there is only SO MUCH crazy crap that happens, it's a lot easier to keep track of and understand.
 
saintjon said:
Erickson, if only for the reason that there is only SO MUCH crazy crap that happens, it's a lot easier to keep track of and understand.
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The Elliott series was just good enough to keep me interested to read the first 5 a couple months ago. So I will read the last two.
I started Erickson a while ago and could not get into it at the time (I did not get very far). I have always figured I would try again later. The question is - what do you mean by the above quote?
 
Postaurch said:
I guess I look at it like this. The author and the publisher had a choice: edit down the book or split it into two. I didn't see much in the way of justification for the split.

If Elliott had only gotten this far and wanted to publish something, I'd feel ok, but the targeted publication dates are only about 7 months apart, and that probably driven most by marketing.

If Elliott has so much to say, I'd feel ok, but unlike GRR Martin, Elliott is not unfolding news depths to her story lines, characters, or world.

If you think Elliott will not profit more by two books published in hardcover so close together than by a single omnibus or hard-choice-edited version, there isn't much more to say. Of course the publisher will see more of the profit, but it is a win-win for them.

As for the "go take a seminar on x" attack, pffft.
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So let me get this straight. Elliott should cut parts out of her books and not tell the story as she has envisioned it just so you don't have to buy two books. Hogwash! Furthermore, how can you comment on the "justification for the split" when you haven't read the second half of said split?

As for the 7 months between publication dates, that fact indicates to me that Elliott didn't split the books for financial gain. The reason for the short gap between books is that both are complete (because she wrote them as one book). If Elliott wanted to drag the series out, why write the end of the story as one book, only to have it split later. Why would she initially announce this as the sixth and final volume?

Kate Elliott Website Scroll about half-way down the page, to the Sept. 2004 update.

I think if dragging it out to two books was her intention, she would have written it that way to begin with. Unless of course it was some diabolical scheme of hers that included blatantly lying to her fans.

Now if you didn't care for the book, that's fine. If you think that the story is bogging down, that's understandable. As a matter of fact, when all is said and done, there may be some merit to your opinion that the two books could have been edited down to one.

Why, though, when these situations arise does it always have to be because the author is just trying to milk the series for more money? Why do so many people jump to that conclusion? It seems much more likely to me that the author is simply struggling to bring a rather large story to a suitable conclusion.
 
Godmage said:
Why, though, when these situations arise does it always have to be because the author is just trying to milk the series for more money? Why do so many people jump to that conclusion? It seems much more likely to me that the author is simply struggling to bring a rather large story to a suitable conclusion.
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I'm not familiar with this series, so I'm just speaking in generalities here, but there is the possibility that the publisher is trying to milk it. Looking at the page counts, this book is shorter than all the others in the series, compared to some only 1/3rd the length. TOR has lately been taking one-volume science fiction novels and splitting them into 2 incomplete MMPs (we presume to milk for more money out of one story). So not saying that's what's going on here, but it wouldn't be unprecedented, and given the lengths of the books may be what's happening.

Then again, maybe she needed just a little bridge to get to a spot where she could start the last book. Again, just speaking in generalities here. No personal knowledge or opinion of this author or her work.
 
Godmage

Why, though, when these situations arise does it always have to be because the author is just trying to milk the series for more money? Why do so many people jump to that conclusion? It seems much more likely to me that the author is simply struggling to bring a rather large story to a suitable conclusion.

I've stopped reading Elliott while I was on the first book so I can't comment about what the specific reasoning is here. However generally, people measure that a series is being cash cowed when very little happens in a long book. This multivolume saga phenomenon is very much a Fantasy thing, in which authors tend to draw up 600-900 page books in which far too little happens. This will suggest to readers that they are deliberatly stretching it to make as much money out of it as possible.

Some authors in this genre simply go on auto pilot and write endless tomes with virtually no significant plot development.

On the other hand, these things go both ways. A company like TOR deservedly gets a lot of flack for their miserable tendency to cut in half even normal-sized books so that at least they have a duology. However this extra income allows TOR to be the company that offers more chances to new authors than any author publsihing company in the world.
 
I find it unlikely that many writers would draw out a series for money, maybe through being incompetant but not for greed. The best way to be succesful is to write good stories, not bad ones.
 
Oroth said:
I find it unlikely that many writers would draw out a series for money
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I find it more unlikely that they would split up their books for that (or any other "dishonourable") reason. I'm reminded of the more or less recent posting by George R.R. Martin on his website, in which he said (on writing the notoriously "late" A Feast for Crows):

"Pretty much everyone agreed that it would be a really good thing if the fourth volume in the series came in somewhat shorter than STORM, so I set out with the idea of delivering a FEAST closer in length to A CLASH OF KINGS.

Alas for good intentions. In hindsight, I should have known better. The story makes its own demands, as Tolkien once said, and my story kept demanding to get bigger and more complicated.

I passed A CLASH OF KINGS last year, and still had plenty more to write. (...) About three weeks ago I hit 1527 pages of final draft (...) That was when I realized that the light I'd seen at the end of the tunnel was actually the headlight of an onrushing locomotive.

And that's why my publishers and I, after much discussion and weighing of alternatives, have decided to split the narrative into two books (...).

The first plan was simply to lop the text in half (...)

We decided not to do that. It was my feeling -- and I pushed hard for this, so if you don't like the solution, blame me, not my publishers -- that we were better off telling all the story for half the characters, rather than half the story for all the characters (...)"

If nothing else, I would think this goes to show that a certain caution is in order when adjudicating blame on either author or publisher.
 
Reading the various replies, the tendancy is to give the author more credit than assume the stretching out of a series is due to monetary reasoning.

I can't fault that perspective, and it may well be that Elliott has simply lost control of the story and her publisher is aiding and abetting her.

That said, villifying the publisher too easily absolves Elliott of her responsibilities. Being a writer does not mean you don't have to self-edit, or as Hemingway put it, you have to learn to "murder your darlings". Particularly in this age of instantly re-worked manuscripts ala MS-Word, this sort of discipline is a critical aspect IMO.

It is not that I think Elliot intentionally set out to eke the maximum number of sheckles at the cost of her creative integrity. From what I remember, Elliott intended the series to be four or five books. The fist book that expanded beyond her expectations was Child of Flame, and I enjoyed the time-spanning storylines she developed. It is as if that once she allowed herself to loosen the reins on the story, she couldn't bring herself to pull the bit out of its teeth and it has run amok.

I think that Elliott was faced with the choice between slaughtering parts of her dear creation or going with the flow and she chose to hop onto the raft rather than pick up the sword.

THIS, and NOT the belief that in general writers are greedy, is why I grumble about authorial integrity. I can't say I'd do any different if I were in her position. But she is on the front lines and "with great power comes great responsibility."
 
Just finished "In the Ruins". It's a solid book imo but I can see why some people may not enjoy it. It's much like RJ's Crossroads of Twilight in that there isn't much action just moving into position. I also think the book suffers from being split as there is no climax. Oh and the best character is the series, Alain gets hardly any air time and then you have to read 3/4 of the book before you get to him not counting the start. I'm sure that will dissapoint many people.

I won't get into the author doing things for profit as people tend to have huge double standards on this based on how much they like the authors work.
 
Well, mentioning Crossroads may be damning with faint praise, given the issues with his series, but...


a question: What do you feel the book added to the series beyond Gathering Storm? I.e., you say "not much action" but rather "moving into position", so how have things moved since the previous book?

(Feel free to be specific but if you do be sure to use the spoilers feature to black out text).
 
Off the top of my head the main points in brief would be..

Sanglant has be crowned King and is moving in the direction of Alain.

Hugh has blessing and has meet up with the elf dudes who have decided that they want to enslave of kill or humans.

Antonia is head of the church and the Empress and that General have allied.

Biscop Constance(?) has escaped and has reached Lavas and is about to confront Sabella and Conrad for control or Varre.

By the way I enjoyed Crossroads but as with this book I can understand why some disliked it. I enjoy the story and characters of both books and am in no rush to see the end.
 
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ChrisW,

Ok, you identified four things that have progressed. There are perhaps a few more. My question is, do you feel Elliott needed hundreds of pages to present this movement? Sure, exposition in a world that has become dear to you is great, but how much of it is essential?
 
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