Last Argument of Kings by Joe Abercrombie

KatG said:
In Abercrombie's series, the Bloody Nine is a demon entity that came into Logen through his ability to communicate with ghosts (or accompanied that ability after events -- it isn't entirely clear. This seems to be from the dimension from which magic is drawn re Bayaz.) The Bloody Nine pops up when Logen's defenses are down, when he's tired and out of it and the Bloody Nine can take over and satiate its need for blood. It's not entirely clear whether the Bloody Nine killed Logen's wife or not. Logen keeps hoping that he can somehow ditch or permanently surpress the Bloody Nine and have some sort of normal life, which is primarily why he throws in with Bayaz.
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I never realised that, thanks Kat. Was that something I may have missed from the books or is it inside information?
 
It's in the books. But Abercrombie does keep the whole thing very hazy. There are lots of implied secrets we don't get to find out about yet.
 
My favorite quote thus far from Last Argument of Kings is from Superior Glokta:

"God might have mercy on you. But he doesn't hold the pliers down here. Clamp him."

Great stuff, that.
 
Spears&Buckler said:
My favorite quote thus far from Last Argument of Kings is from Superior Glokta:

"God might have mercy on you. But he doesn't hold the pliers down here. Clamp him."

Great stuff, that.
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That is a great one. I don't want to give out any spoilers if you are not finished but Logen throws a great one towards the end.
 
Spears&Buckler said:
My favorite quote thus far from Last Argument of Kings is from Superior Glokta:

"God might have mercy on you. But he doesn't hold the pliers down here. Clamp him."

Great stuff, that.
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That's a good one all right. Another of my favorites,

"It's amazing, how quickly problems can be solved, once you start cutting things off people."
 
I should finish this weekend so I'll be on the lookout for it, Third Eye. Let's see if I can guess the one you're talking about.

Beniowa, another great one from Glokta!

I'm loving this trilogy and I'll read everything Abercrombie puts out there.
 
Spears&Buckler said:
I should finish this weekend so I'll be on the lookout for it, Third Eye. Let's see if I can guess the one you're talking about.

Beniowa, another great one from Glokta!

I'm loving this trilogy and I'll read everything Abercrombie puts out there.
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I am with you spears Abercrombie is one of my favorite authors. The First Law Trilogy is fantastic. As much as I like The Bloody Nine I would have to say Bayaz is my favorite character.
 
Finally was able to get a hold of this book, (it's hard to do here in Canada if you don't like getting stuff online), and I'm cautiously back on board the Abercrombie train for now. I still got that same feeling of pointlessness I did with "Before they were hanged," but I can deal with it for another book or two I suppose.

I can kind of grasp some of the likeability in these characters that people can hold onto and really gives the books their charm, but I certainly don't hold it in as high esteem as most on this board. Still entertaining stuff, though, and I'll read Best Served Cold eventually.
 
If it helps, Last Argument is full of battles. Really full of battles. A variety of battles. Battles definitely happen. And it has a great ending, in my opinion.

Best Served Cold is more of a romp, if by romp you mean black, bleak, treacherous, persnicketty, screwed up violent death sort of romping. And you get some very interesting information about the First Law world from it. I'm looking at these one-offs as Joe's versions of striptease. :)
 
Abercrombie has become one of my favorite authors. I love his dark, gritty stories with his far-from-being-perfect characters. I can't wait to read The Heroes.
 
I'm only 200 pages into the book, but so far the trilogy has continued to get better and better.

I just read a scene while in a coffee shop, and struggled (unsuccessfully) to contain my laughter:
The scene when King Jezal first sits down with the Closed Council, and ends up throwing a goblet at one man's head, throwing an inkwell, and screaming at them all.
So, so good! :D
 
Gary XI said:
I never realised that, thanks Kat. Was that something I may have missed from the books or is it inside information?
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I know this is an old thread, but I'm just catching up on it.

In all I've read about LAoK, I've never seen anyone mention the essential scene in which Logen is in a "Bloody Nine" rage, just as Bayaz and Ferro are setting off the seed. When the seed powers up, Logen's rage is *instantly* cut off. So I think it's obvious that the Bloody-Nine has *something* to do with the demon world, although its connection is never clearly explained.
 
Regarding the theories about the Bloody Nine, there is one thing inconsistent with them, or at least partially:

How did he manage to spare the lives of his companions in the duels that he fought with them?

We know for sure that the Bloody Nine is a relentless fighter, killing everything in his path, regardless of their association. He does not stay his sword for friends and foe alike.
We also know that the Bloody Nine had to be present at least at the end of the duels:

1) Tul Duru is such a fearsome warrior, that Logen wonders himself how he managed to beat him.
2) He mentiones that he was lying for days and in constant pain after the duel with Threetrees
3) He was pierced by Harding Grim's spear, which also should have invoked the Bloody Nine

The Bloody Nine we know would definitely not let anyone live in a duel with him.

The theory that I suggest:

The Bloody Nine and Logen were one and the same individuality.
Very blood thirsty, yet thinking and clever individuality. He recognized the benefit of having such strong followers and spared their lives. He was capable of rational thinking and distinguishing between friends and foes.

Perhaps after years fighting for Bethod and so much bloodshed, he was repulsed by his nature and was determined to suppress it, thus creating the mental illness himself. Or perhaps he went overboard with such a horrific deed, that the shellshock was the mental illness.
Logen states that in battles before the duels, he lost consciousness and his dark side took over, for example when he was a youth, he killed one of his friends. This can be attributed to an unconscious attempt (or a conscious lie) to separate every evil deed from himself, therefore not having to feel guilty.

The end result was the separating of his most dark impulses, losing the ability to control them.
 
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Kormak said:
Regarding the theories about the Bloody Nine, there is one thing inconsistent with them, or at least partially:

How did he manage to spare the lives of his companions in the duels that he fought with them?
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Good question!

Perhaps after years fighting for Bethod and so much bloodshed, he was repulsed by his nature and was determined to suppress it, thus creating the mental illness himself. Or perhaps he went overboard with such a horrific deed, that the shellshock was the mental illness.
Logen states that in battles before the duels, he lost consciousness and his dark side took over, for example when he was a youth, he killed one of his friends. This can be attributed to an unconscious attempt (or a conscious lie) to separate every evil deed from himself, therefore not having to feel guilty.

The end result was the separating of his most dark impulses, losing the ability to control them.
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We know that Logen had these rages as a youth, and we know that he could fly into a rage even when there wasn't a battle (he was angry and lashed out, no pre-existing battle) -- so I don't think we can say that the rages are caused by battle fatigue or by reactions to horrific deeds.

I suspect he suffered from some form of possession, but that's just a theory. Unfortunately, knowing what an evil bastard Abercrombie is, he may not ever tell us!
 
Kormak said:
How did he manage to spare the lives of his companions in the duels that he fought with them?
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Excellent question, it kind of nagged at my brain while reading. Your explanation is interesting, but somehow doesn't ring completely true with the all-or-nothing aspect of the Bloody Nine. *Maybe* he just managed to win the duels without BN intervenience!?

Another - less important - question about this book:
why does Logen become King after defeating Fenris? Wouldn't it be more logical if he were champion for the Dogman? The Dogman is a *far* better chief than Logen is, and Logen already accepted the Dogman's authority. Also, he's used to being champion to someone else: Bethod.
 
Arie said:
why does Logen become King after defeating Fenris? Wouldn't it be more logical if he were champion for the Dogman? The Dogman is a *far* better chief than Logen is, and Logen already accepted the Dogman's authority. Also, he's used to being champion to someone else: Bethod.
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Dogman didn't have chance to become King of all the North. He don't have even nearly enough as much status as Logen. Some county-sized territory on the border, as he got in the Heroes fit him perfectly
 
s271 said:
Dogman didn't have chance to become King of all the North. He don't have even nearly enough as much status as Logen. Some county-sized territory on the border, as he got in the Heroes fit him perfectly
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Wasn't the Dogman still in the south when Logen killed Fenris the Feared? I thought that he remained behind when Logen decided to return north
 
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