Martin and Hobb! But now what?

[BrianEno]

I have never been into fantasy. I read Lord of the Rings when I was younger, but then it ended.I went back a couple of years ago to see what the genre had to offer and was sadly dissapointed. Is there anything else that compares to Hobb or Martin?

And please don't suggest the whole A list of "high school" writers (no offense to their fans) like Jordan or Feist or Goodkind or Brooks. Action will never make for good writing. Just as it never makes for good films. Without intelligence, plot, and charecter, stories are nothing.

I'm just praying to God that there is someone else out there.

PS I have also read Kay, Williams (Tad) and Erikson, so please don't suggest them. Actually I think I got pretty lucky there as they were not as bad as the others and there were definitely moments of genius in their words, but after Hobb and Martin, even those cats pale in comparison.

Thanx.

 

[magze]

Try King's Dark tower series

 

[Beleg]

http://www.sffworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8804

Check the above link.

Aside from the authors mentioned in the link I have provided [All of them are worth checking out and I think that you'll like Mieville the most since whatever his faults he has an amazing imagination and a totally original world to boot] I'll recommend Juliet Marillier who has an intresting and thought-provoking take on traditional Irish Myths in the form of 'Sevenwater Triology'

Edit: Remedied my stupidity

 

[whitebelly]

Mr Eno, my sentiments EXACTLY.

Despite many recommendations I never encountered anything as compelling as Martin and Hobb, at least in the sf&f genre. Allow me to recommend a book that is not strictly genre (it was written before there was such a thing as "fantasy genre" the way we know it today) though it is of course a fantasy: THE MASTER AND MARGARITA by Mikhail Bulgakov.

The fantasy books I actually liked best recently are somewhere on the border between teenager-adult fiction: THE EARTHSEA QUARTET by Ursula Le Guin, and HIS DARK MATERIALS by Philip Pullman.

 

[Mithfânion]

I'm personally very keen on Hobb and Martin, but on Kay and Williams as well. Kay in particular has some superb characterization and flair for drama. So you could say you've got a 50/50 chance of liking the following..

So I'll recommend Ray Scott Bakker as an author who's also up there on that pinnacle of Fantasy. Alternatively, if you're looking for something more complex or multi-layered, Gene Wolfe, John Crowley, Robert Holdstock and John C. Wright are authors to consider. Fans of Martin often take to JV Jones's Sword of Shadows trilogy as well. Maybe Patricia McKillip if you're looking for something really reminiscent of a dreamworld.

 

[Hans]

The "Sun Sword" series by Michelle West may be more to your liking. Her writing style is quite different.

Here's a previous thread discussing her books: Michelle West

 

[Spears&Buckler]

Stephen R. Donaldson is excellent as is Matthew Woodring Stover. Both are most definitely not "high school-ish". I would also recommend Steven Erikson, although I have only read the first book in his series.

 

[Mithfânion]

Why recommend Steven Erikson when the thread starter specifically asks:

"PS I have also read Kay, Williams (Tad) and Erikson, so please don't suggest them: ?

The same would apply to the poster who then goes on to recommend several of Guy Kay's books. So few criteria are required to reply to a post and even those few are too much to ask?

 

[Sir Stephen]

Lynn Flewellings "bone doll twin" is superb, character driven, intelligent and the sequel "Hidden Warrior" is even better. Its probably the closest thing I've read to Martin and Hobbs style.

PS: Stay away from her previous "Nightrunner" series, its completely different.

 

[Boiler]

Stephen R. Donaldson

I second that. The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant are great and definatly not high-school material.

 

[Keyoke]

Paul Kearney's "Monarchies of God" is a excellent series, and all 5 books are out in paperback now. Though, here in Canada, they seem to be a touch harder to find these days.

John Marco's "Tyrant and Kings" series is also done, which I also enjoyed immensely

Keyoke

 

[FicusFan]

Lynn Flewellings "bone doll twin" is superb, character driven, intelligent and the sequel "Hidden Warrior" is even better. Its probably the closest thing I've read to Martin and Hobbs style.

PS: Stay away from her previous "Nightrunner" series, its completely different.

I think her previous series was even better. It is also not really different, her current series also features love among the same gender. The only reason to avoid any of her stuff is if that bothers you.

 

[ChrisW]

I'd reply but I don't see any difference between what Hobb and Martin write and your so called high school authors so I can't give any recommendations.

Mith, stop trying to be a JohnH wannabe

 

[BrianEno]

Thanks.

Wow so many suggestions. Thank you all. What's up Caldazar? I must have stepped on your toes or something? You must be a huge fan of one of the people I criticized. I guess you missed the "no offense to anyone who loves these guys thing".

One person that really upset me more than the others was Jordan. I had such high expectations for "The Wheel of Time" when I heard about it. Then I read the first book and almost vomitted immediately afterword. The same went for Goodkind. I mean lets be reasonable here. Why didn't he just name Zed, Gandalf and get the whole thing over with?

A great example is the relationship between Fitz and the Fool, or Robb and Catelyn. There is real tension there. Another great example is the relationship between Paul Atreidies and his Mother in "Dune". These are "real life" relationships. They breathe and have meaning, much deeper than what appears on the surface.

A great example of a poorly written relationship would be just about any in the Authors' work I mentioned in my previous post, or more specifically Kahlan and Richard. Take any dialogue that Kahlan and Richard have (or their own thoughts on each other for that matter). Now take this dialogue and put it into a scene form "General Hospital" or "Days of Our Lives" or any other weak American soap opera. You will never be able to tell it's from a book. It fits just fine, like an old neglected shoe you find in your closet. (Bad prose 101 anybody?)

 

[Erfael]

Wow so many suggestions. Thank you all. What's up Caldazar? I must have stepped on your toes or something? You must be a huge fan of one of the people I criticized. I guess you missed the "no offense to anyone who loves these guys thing".

One person that really upset me more than the others was Jordan. I had such high expectations for "The Wheel of Time" when I heard about it. Then I read the first book and almost vomitted immediately afterword. The same went for Goodkind. I mean lets be reasonable here. Why didn't he just name Zed, Gandalf and get the whole thing over with?

A great example is the relationship between Fitz and the Fool, or Robb and Catelyn. There is real tension there. Another great example is the relationship between Paul Atreidies and his Mother in "Dune". These are "real life" relationships. They breathe and have meaning, much deeper than what appears on the surface.

A great example of a poorly written relationship would be just about any in the Authors' work I mentioned in my previous post, or more specifically Kahlan and Richard. Take any dialogue that Kahlan and Richard have (or their own thoughts on each other for that matter). Now take this dialogue and put it into a scene form "General Hospital" or "Days of Our Lives" or any other weak American soap opera. You will never be able to tell it's from a book. It fits just fine, like an old neglected shoe you find in your closet. (Bad prose 101 anybody?)

Welcome to the board...that's what I like, someone who shows up and isn't afraid to say what it is he thinks. Of course, JohnH will be along sometime to champion the downtrodden, but don't let him scare you.

I'm sure some of these have been mentioned before here or there, but some names to throw out there are: China Mieville, Neil Gaiman, Jonathan Carroll, Jeffrey Ford, Jeff Vandermeer, Michael Chabon, Gene Wolfe, Ian MacLeod, Stepen King are all people who are writing in the genre right now who are not at all run of the mill.

A few others who are a little more mainstream fantasy who are also getting good talk these days that aren't just the "high school" authors are John Marco, J.V. Jones, Paul Kearney, Patricia McKillip, Sean Russell.


That's certainly not a comprehensive list, just some names off the top of my head. We can't pick for you, but we can supply a bewildering number of names and opinions from every side of the spectrum. Best advice is just dive into something or look through the rec and reading threads to see who is reading things that seem interesting to you and what they think of them. Before long you'll have some people whose opinions you trust and others whose opinions you know to avoid like the plague.

 

[ChrisW]

ya didn't step on any of my toes, I was just stating my opinion that there is no real difference between the authors you mentioned. I might enjoy some more than others but style wise they arn't much different imo.

if you had said Wolfe and Melville instead of Hobb amd Martin i'd be able to recommend some names as they have very different style to most fantasy.

Your second post is more informative as it tells me more about what you are looking for and what you specifically didn't like about them than just mentioning names does. Specifically it seems anything that appears similiar to tolkien, you don't like.

So i'd reccomend:

Stover
Carey
Rawn
J V Jones(Sword of Shadows trilogy)
Kate Elliott

I'd still class the above in the same league with Hobb,Martin, Jordan, Feist etc but they are not tokienish and contain good relationships but then I also believe Jordans and Fiests works do as well. So mb you should ignore any recommnedations from me.

I'm sure some of these have been mentioned before here or there, but some names to throw out there are: China Mieville, Neil Gaiman, Jonathan Carroll, Jeffrey Ford, Jeff Vandermeer, Michael Chabon, Gene Wolfe, Ian MacLeod, Stepen King are all people who are writing in the genre right now who are not at all run of the mill.

I'd suggest trying those than any of the other authors mentioned as most people who I've seen that can't find any decent books after reading Martin tend to like them more than other traditional fantasy. I have no idea why people consider Martin or Hobb more akin to those authors.

 

[ObtusePunubiris]

I'd suggest The Wars of Light and Shadow by Janny Wurts. At first the story may seem like run-of-the-mill fantasy, but towards the end of the first book the scope of the tale suddenly broadens and the story heads off in new direction.

Some have complained that Wurts uses an overly-complex writing style, but to be honest, her style is one of the things I love most about this series. Her prose is very dense and detail oriented, but not frivolous.

 

[Beleg]

There is real tension there. Another great example is the relationship between Paul Atreidies and his Mother in "Dune". These are "real life" relationships. They breathe and have meaning, much deeper than what appears on the surface.

that's the beauty of fantasy literature. you don't need fine and dandy real-life relationships to enjoy a work. Yup, they are okay, often enhance the pleasure sometimes, but, well, they aren't fantastical. I don't want to encounter the same things in fiction that I encounter in real-life, I read fantasy for relief and enjoyment, real-life situations can easily kill that.
And authors like Jordan and Feist have enough fantastical exoticness to spur my [and million others] intrest. This is why genres like Fantasy, Sci-fi are termed speculative fiction.

 

[zakhrin]

Have you tried Glenn Cook? The black company is worth a try.

 

[Sir Stephen]

I think her previous series was even better. It is also not really different, her current series also features love among the same gender. The only reason to avoid any of her stuff is if that bothers you.

FicusFan, I found her previous series a bit trashy, the style of writing is much different and the general plot was by turns weak, confusing and dumb, i got really bored in places but i managed to finnish all the same. As for your reference towards same gender relationships, I take offence at the implication, they dont bother me in the slightest. Although I cant exactly say I enjoyed the mental image of two guys making out repeatedly at every available sentence in the third book.

Anyway now look what you've done, its all off topic, you big gay.

I forgot to mention earlier...

JV Jones Sword of shadows trilogy and KJ Parkers Scavenger trilogy.