Overrated authors

To me overrated would be if someone has a reputation for influencing/shaping the genre that is exaggerated, and no name really comes to mind however I feel about their books.

The term overated according to the dictionary simply means: Regarded more highly than is deserved. Nothing to do with influence or genre shaping.
I know you said "to you" but...that's an opinion too. ;)
 
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The term overated according to the dictionary simply means: Regarded more highly than is deserved. Nothing to do with influence or genre shaping.
I know you said "to you" but...that's an opinion too. ;)

Technically I guess you are right, but then "regarded most highly than is deserved" begs the questions "by whom?", and "on what grounds do you dispute that?", other than I did not like this or that novel.

This is why I tend to avoid "charged" terms when talking about a book/author since most of the time it's just a matter of personal preference and it does not lead to interesting conversations.

I really appreciate it when someone details why he/she likes/dislikes an author/book and I try to do so as much as I can, but I realized that with authors I dislike it's usually very hard for me to say more than "it just does not chime with me", while for authors that I like, I easily find reasons why...
 
Tolkien is completely overrated.. sure, he had influence, but even if you consider his books perfect(which they aren't), he only wrote 4 books! 3 of which were just one long book... he could easily have been a one hit wonder.. What makes someone great is being consistently great.. not taking his whole life to write a handful of books...

And the hobbit sucked.
 
Heinlein

I LOVED his kid stuff when I was a kid, but thought Stranger in a Strange Land was pretentious BS and he just got worse as he aged. All that "An incredibly wise aging writer uses his intellect and cool to be sexually active and rule the world of lesser idiots" stuff.
 
I also think that Tolkien is overrated, but i think that's for the fantasy forum.

suciul, i believe when we say overrated authors we mean authors that you don't like eventhough they are considered good by many people...
Why do we discuss it? why do we discuss our favorite authors? discussing opinions is fun, be them negative or positive, this isn't some academic research, just flow with it.
 
Ditto with the Tolkien, very overrated. Decent books, but there not that good.

Frank Herbert's Dune is way overrated. It's far too long and extremely boring at times. Not worth the endless string of accolades or sequels.
 
Frank Herbert's Dune is way overrated. It's far too long and extremely boring at times. Not worth the endless string of accolades or sequels

nah Dune rocks! hehe. I cant think of a more influential book in the genre, nor one that consistantly crops up on peoples top 20 so often. So he must have been doing something right ;)

Im going to go for Brian Aldiss. Every book i have read bore the pants off me.
 
overrated

Wolf for sure to me b/c IMO his books lack any real depth

Baxter is realy hard to get through.
 
Yeah, well this is where suciul is right. If a topic like this attracts people to contribute their pearls of wisdom:
IT's BORING. or It SUCKS...
I can't tell you how embarrassed ifI would be if I looked back on my visits to any forum and found that my contributions were whatever was boring or that it sucked. It's like admitting that I needed to be put in remedial classes at school...

Sorry... but you should know because it's what everyone one is thinking when you write those two things...
Nobody thinks "hmm, how edifying, how straight forward, how profound..."
 
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Heinlein

I LOVED his kid stuff when I was a kid, but thought Stranger in a Strange Land was pretentious BS and he just got worse as he aged. All that "An incredibly wise aging writer uses his intellect and cool to be sexually active and rule the world of lesser idiots" stuff.

Agreed, almost forgot him... Stranger in a Strange Land started out ok, but halfway through he decided plot wasn't important and hijacked the characters to use them for long winded monologues about his own views.. shameless.
 
I think you have to approach Stranger as two separate pieces; the first half ends with Mike's disappearance, the second begins with his religious revelation, founding of the COAW & etc.

About the only thing that I am truly critical of (and I've read the damned thing at least 20 times) is the ending, where we discover that heaven is real, that all prophets, no matter how vile, end up there with the power to interfere in human affairs... its discordant and doesn't support the general 'science rules, reason rules, believing in fantasy gets you in trouble' themes found earlier in the book (Jubal's rants against the idiot box, for example) nor most of the rest of RAH's works.

In many respects its similar to the ending (which I found less disappointing) of Sagan's Contact (the book, not the movie); at least Sagan left open the possibility that the 'messages' hidden in the physical laws of the universe were put there by technologically superior beings and didn't resort entirely to mythology.

How's that for saying 'it sucked' without saying 'it sucked'?
 
Orson Scott Card. I've only read Ender's Game but from all the hype and praise you'd think it was more important than the bible, but I thought it was just a load of cobblers.

I read the short story first and disliked it - never got around to reading the book after that. Seriously, I cannot put my finger on what I did not like in it, but it put me off of reading any Scott Card at all, except for Unaccompanied Sonata. Just my opinion.
 
Many on here I agree with, but I do think that your own age and mindset, when you first read an author, has a lot of bearing, along with which book you start with:-

Herbert - Dune - ok but didn't catch me - however I do like most of his other books, so I could say that he isn't overrated for me it is just this one book.

OSC - Enders Game - probably the best of OSC but still not great, I did plough through the subsequent books and I'm afraid plough was the right word.

Heinlein - what can I say, tried when I was young, have tried again recently reading 5 of his in the last year. This includes TMIAHM which I found almost painfully bad. Maybe I just don't like being preached at.

Wolfe - ok but again didn't fire my imagination


I'm never too sure about the selection criteria for what rates a great author. Ultimately I've not found an author yet where I actually like all of their work that I've read. If I find that I like little, or none, of their work, but they are highly rated, then that's good enough for me to feel they are overrated. The fact that it may be my own criteria that are out of kilter is unimportant. Just recognising this will not alter my reaction to a book.
 
Catcher In The Rye????? I thought it was stupid when I was sixteen. But people still rave about it. Is it like Easy Rider or Blowup... you see them now and are embarassed?
 
What makes a great author is simply defined: enough people liked the story enough at the time to recommend it so that enough others bought it so that the publisher thought they were on to a good thing and spent enough more on promotion that enough other unexposed readers picked it up and enough of them recommended it enough to keep the chain going for more than a couple of years.

On a personal level, all it takes to create a 'great' book is that YOU liked it more than most of your other (more recent) reads so that it stood out. It doesn't matter whether the thing that made it 'better' was plot, concept, character or style.

I'm making a list of all of the authors in my library (the SF part of it); I'm forced to do so from memory and from various web-based alphabetical listings because its in storage right now. My intention is to then go back and flag those authors who were memorable to me, followed by a purely memory based list of the stories/novels by those folks that I most enjoyed. Then I'll ponder the commonalities and see what I come up with.

Heinlein is a good 'test' though, as I've read everything by him and many things numerous times. For example - Moon, Stranger, Friday, Glory, Time Enough and Starship, Door Into, Farnham's are the adult novels that have gotten numerous reads, while Sail Beyond, Job, Number, Sixth Column, Cat have only gotten one or one and a half reads. Of the juveniles, Tunnel, Starman, Between and Podkayne have gotten numerous reads while Rolling, Citizen, Have Spacesuit are among the less frequently re-read. (Up to you whether Starship is classed as a juvenile or an adult novel). At the current time I can't stomach the idea of re-reading Stranger, but would have no trouble at all going back through Moon. Starman Jones was the most recent re-read; likewise, I'd like to get back to Door Into Summer, and could not possibly go back through Time Enough for Love or any of the later novels even if you put a gun to my head.

Heinlein was my first exposure to SF (Starman Jones, nearly 40 years ago) and I have to admit that he warped my brain. It should be illegal for impressionable youth to read science fiction...
 
Yeah, well this is where suciul is right. If a topic like this attracts people to contribute their pearls of wisdom:
IT's BORING. or It SUCKS...
I can't tell you how embarrassed ifI would be if I looked back on my visits to any forum and found that my contributions were whatever was boring or that it sucked. It's like admitting that I needed to be put in remedial classes at school...

Sorry... but you should know because it's what everyone one is thinking when you write those two things...
Nobody thinks "hmm, how edifying, how straight forward, how profound..."

As a rule, internet forums are seldom if ever "edifying."

Ok. Overlooking the fact that this is the net and you can't honestly expect literary criticism from a forum, I'll bite anyway.

In Dune, Frank Herbert took the farsighted approach and accurately guessed the radical environmentalist position decades before it emerged on the world scene (meaning popular culture noticed it, rather than implying it didn't exist). So for that he should be acknowledged, but that alone doesn't make for entertaining reading. It's the execution that brings the thrills and entertainment. Something that Herbert failed to do, IMNSHO.

Herbert also managed to inject politically relevant religious satire into his work that most people overlook. The Bene's controlled and manipulated the Fremen religion (along with dozens of other religions) to advance their own ends. But are the Bene's villains, only partially as it is their meddling (and Jessica's reversal of that meddling by having Paul against the wishes of the order) that produces Paul, who in turn "saves" the Fremen. Great, good for him, I'm still opposed to religious manipulation of primitive cultures by more advanced ones. It's still horrid and yet, in the context of the novel (re: series) it's an utterly necessary evil for their to be any story/plot.

That most people read it and side with the Fremen does not escape me, but when examined from a modern perspective, that same position is held by the guerillas in Iraq. "You're in our country (ie on our world) and you're exploiting our natural resources for your own ends. Please get out or we will slaughter you."

While I don't agree with the exploitation of a native or the population's natural resources, it is rather funny that terrorists are bad in real life, but we can be made to sympathize with them in fiction. Any point-of-view or perspective can be made 'reasonable' with naught but a sympathetic main character and the situation being turned on it's head.

That's not to say that the villains in Dune, the Hark and the Emperor, didn't need to be put down. It's the whole, the enemy of my enemy is my friend bs that I can't stand, especially when that new friend is a real villain.

Targeting civilians is always wrong, no matter why you do it. Yes, as depicted in Dune there are barbarities performed by both sides. But that doesn't justify anything.

The Emperor and the Hark target civilians (ie the Fremen before they engaged in hostilities), and the Fremen (once they engaged in hostilities) also target civilians. In a war, any war, targeting the enemy's army is acceptable. But, targeting their supply lines may be tactically necessary, but if they are manned by civilians, it's a crime against humanity.

Both sides are wrong and neither is heroic for this simple fact. However, because freedom is good, the Fremen are somehow justified in their targeting of civilians, while the Emp and Harks are just bastards. I call bs.

So, instead of making you read a flame inspiring rant about the modern politics of a decades old book, I stuck with the easier target, the books lack of sustained action and engaging writing (ie the dreaded "it's boring").

Again, I remind you, this is an internet forum, you shouldn't expect anything at all from the members here, much less actual literary criticism.
 

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