Overrated books (a thread for grumps)

[nquixote]

As one of the Village Grumps of the sffworld boards, I thought I'd post a link to my Amazon Listmania list of overrated sf/f novels.

The list contains, among others:

The Chronicles of Narnia
The Wheel of Time
His Dark Materials
The Sword of Truth
Perdido Street Station

Anyone got any additions? Or want to tell me I'm full of it?

 

[Heather Myst]

Wheel of Time series by Robert Jordan

The Deed of Paksonarrion by Elizabeth Moon

Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn Tad Williams

 

[blackocellaris]

ColdFire Trilogy
Night Angel Trilogy

After almost one and a half books of each series I had to call it quits due to boredom.

I agree with the His Dark Materials comment as well.

 

[Cranky Hamster]

Anyone got any additions? Or want to tell me I'm full of it?

Nah. But I will say you mostly picked easy targets.

 

[suciul]

As one of the Village Grumps of the sffworld boards, I thought I'd post a link to my Amazon Listmania list of overrated sf/f novels.

The list contains, among others:

The Chronicles of Narnia
The Wheel of Time
His Dark Materials
The Sword of Truth
Perdido Street Station

Anyone got any additions? Or want to tell me I'm full of it?

This thread begs the question what does overrated mean?

I mean to list "Sword of Truth" there is like listing Dan Brown or Stephanie Meyer and I think that none of these are overrated since everyone outside of their fanatical supporters agree the respective books are popular junk...

Pullman - he got lots of brownies for his ideology but I do not think he is that overrated either as above - better than Goodkind but nobody talks of him as Mieville, GRRM...

Jordan is like Erickson imho - do not like either because I think they write a very leaden style, or at least not one on my taste, but I think that both Wheel of Time and Malazan are deservedly famous

Narnia is for children and I think it's like with other children books it depends how you looked at it then...

Mieville is the "god" of New Weird and PSS is almost a masterpiece so I think it may be even underrated

So what does "overrated" mean? In what context? Bestselling, critical acclaim...?

 

[Dyloot]

As one of the Village Grumps of the sffworld boards, I thought I'd post a link to my Amazon Listmania list of overrated sf/f novels.

The list contains, among others:

The Chronicles of Narnia
The Wheel of Time
His Dark Materials
The Sword of Truth
Perdido Street Station

Anyone got any additions? Or want to tell me I'm full of it?

Fahrenheit 451? Overrated? Are you serious?

We live in a time where visual entertainment continues to dominate our culture and the written word is less and less relevant to ordinary citizens. Fahrenheit 451 remains one of the most important works of the past century and is required reading for school children in many schools around the U.S. In a time of increased governmental control and secrecy and the continued shift away from periodicals to trash reality television Fahrenheit 451 should serve as a warning of what could be if we allow it. And Bradbury wrote it in 1953, a time when newspapers and printed words still dominated our culture.

Adding this timeless classic to a list of mostly forgettable fantasy and science fiction is a joke.

 

[firqoret]

Fahrenheit 451? Overrated? Are you serious?

We live in a time where visual entertainment continues to dominate our culture and the written word is less and less relevant to ordinary citizens. Fahrenheit 451 remains one of the most important works of the past century and is required reading for school children in many schools around the U.S. In a time of increased governmental control and secrecy and the continued shift away from periodicals to trash reality television Fahrenheit 451 should serve as a warning of what could be if we allow it. And Bradbury wrote it in 1953, a time when newspapers and printed words still dominated our culture.

Adding this timeless classic to a list of mostly forgettable fantasy and science fiction is a joke.

Yup, this one's overrated all right.

Fahrenheit 451 is an awful, awful book. The message it sends might be admirable, but it's written in such a way that after finishing it, the first thing one wants to do is to watch TV for 48 hours straight, just to wash away the memories of ever having read that high-strung, whiny, stupid, pretentious piece of nonsense that Bradbury wrote.

In 1953 one classic science fiction novel about the excesses of modern media was published, but that wasn't Fahrenheit 451, it was the much superior The Space Merchants my Pohl and Kornbluth.

 

[nquixote]

So what does "overrated" mean? In what context? Bestselling, critical acclaim...?

Either one, or both, as I see it...

 

[Raven of SD]

You might want to update your reason for hating Jordan on your Amazon list. Yes the author died but the series is going to be finished by another author that Jordan approved of, using a partially completed manuscript (the ending by Jordan) and Jordan's notes.

 

[tyriseus]

I'm not a big fan of two of the biggest names in fantasy; namely Feist and Brooks. I read The Sword of Shanara when I was in high school and was not very impressed at all. I reread it a couple years ago thinking maybe I just missed it somehow, however, I still found it only average. Honestly I can't even put a finger on why but it just didn't seem that good to me. Five years later I'm tempted to read it again to see if perhaps I was on something at both times, but it's rather low on my list.

As for Feist he came recommended to me as if he were possessed by the reincarnated spirit of Tolkien. I've read the first three of the Magician series and found them interesting but somewhat wanting. Over all I think the story is good but the execution just doesn't do it fo rme. I plan on reading the 4th volume but I have little expectations for it.

While I wouldn't say either of them are awful in my opinion both of these writers are rated much higher in the fantasy market than I'd place them.

 

[suciul]

Either one, or both, as I see it...

Oops - I was not clear -

My question was: is a writer "overrated" because he/she sells tons but the work is regarded as junk by many (Goodkind, Brown, Meyer) or is a writer overrated because she/he gets tons of critical acclaim which is undeserved?

To me the fact that a writer sells tons means nothing in terms of "overrated" vs "underrated" and this is why I would not call Goodkind "overrated" because he does not rate so to speak...And we do not want to start on UF bestsellers..

The better question is with respect to critical opinion and someone highly regarded as such (eg Mieville) and then we can discuss meaningfully; but if we go in who sells how much, we go nowhere imho...

 

[Randy M.]

Yup, this one's overrated all right.

Fahrenheit 451 is an awful, awful book. The message it sends might be admirable, but it's written in such a way that after finishing it, the first thing one wants to do is to watch TV for 48 hours straight, just to wash away the memories of ever having read that high-strung, whiny, stupid, pretentious piece of nonsense that Bradbury wrote.

In 1953 one classic science fiction novel about the excesses of modern media was published, but that wasn't Fahrenheit 451, it was the much superior The Space Merchants my Pohl and Kornbluth.

I truly admire Kornbluth's short fiction. He was terrific at the short form. And Pohl was, too, as well as writing one of the best s.f. novels of the 1970s, Gateway. But even as a young, relatively undemanding reader, The Space Merchants struck me as a one-joke satire that went on way too long.

In fairness, I should reread that and the Bradbury, too, but it's going to be awhile before I do that.

I also agree that Ender's Game is overrated by s.f. fans. It's a trick story, once the trick at the end is explained, there's not much to it. Rod Serling could have compressed the same point into a 1/2 hour TV show while Card went on and on over 200 pages.

That aside, I agree with Cranky Hamster.

Randy M.

 

[nquixote]

My question was: is a writer "overrated" because he/she sells tons but the work is regarded as junk by many (Goodkind, Brown, Meyer) or is a writer overrated because she/he gets tons of critical acclaim which is undeserved?

And my answer was "either/or"...

 

[Winter]

I'm not a big fan of two of the biggest names in fantasy; namely Feist and Brooks. I read The Sword of Shanara when I was in high school and was not very impressed at all. I reread it a couple years ago thinking maybe I just missed it somehow, however, I still found it only average. Honestly I can't even put a finger on why but it just didn't seem that good to me. Five years later I'm tempted to read it again to see if perhaps I was on something at both times, but it's rather low on my list.

As for Feist he came recommended to me as if he were possessed by the reincarnated spirit of Tolkien. I've read the first three of the Magician series and found them interesting but somewhat wanting. Over all I think the story is good but the execution just doesn't do it fo rme. I plan on reading the 4th volume but I have little expectations for it.

While I wouldn't say either of them are awful in my opinion both of these writers are rated much higher in the fantasy market than I'd place them.

I wouldn't name either as overrated. They are what they are: a decent--or solid, in the case of Feist--introduction to the genre. I think the rating of the books has a lot more to do with when you read them. To someone just entering in the the fray with an interest in fantasy, I suspect that they would be rated rather highly (Feist being one of the authors that introduced me to the genre, I can attest to this, even if I do not particularly like his work anymore).

---

As for overrated books, there is really only one series I can think of: A Song of Ice and Fire. I really like the books, I think they are great, and I will not hesitate to recommend them to others. Yet one someone brings up a topic like... "I read A Song of Ice and Fire and now all fantasy is a quivering pile of stinking garbage in comparison," I am left thinking, it's definitely not that good. Should it be thought of highly? Sure, but there is definitely a limit, especially now that he is not alone on that gritty epic fantasy field.

 

[phil_geo]

I enjoyed reading a lot of your slams on these books - you put into words things I sometimes felt but couldn't put my finger on. "Sounds like something written in the 60s, right? Except this book was written in 1992." Classic.

Anyone could quibble with your list but at least you attempt to back up your choices. I'll be your huckleberry on a couple.

Saying PSS is an amazing book but has a bad ending means to me that it is not overrated - all of the reasons you list are why it's highly rated. I'm not arguing that the ending doesn't suck; it does. But the book is about world-building, and he accomplishes that and then some.

As far as His Dark Materials, you state "The characterization-by-declaration ("She was a sweet, good, kind girl") is strikingly Narnia-esque. " which is true, but that is because the book is young adult. People always ask "What makes a book young adult?" The answer is simplified exposition. The author intentionally simplifies explanations and descriptions so that younger readers can follow the story. So if its not intentional, yeah, it's bad writing, but Pullman carefully simplified descriptions for younger readers.

For Ender's Game, your only objection seems to be that you read a lot of sexual situations into the book. I'm not denying that the shower-murder seemed a little soapy to me, but overall you may be reading too much into it. Sometimes an ansible is just an ansible.

 

[nquixote]

Saying PSS is an amazing book but has a bad ending means to me that it is not overrated - all of the reasons you list are why it's highly rated. I'm not arguing that the ending doesn't suck; it does. But the book is about world-building, and he accomplishes that and then some.

I guess I just get inordinately pissed when good books end really badly. It's just such a cosmic letdown! And I have NEVER seen a book fall apart as badly as PSS.

For Ender's Game, your only objection seems to be that you read a lot of sexual situations into the book. I'm not denying that the shower-murder seemed a little soapy to me, but overall you may be reading too much into it. Sometimes an ansible is just an ansible.

Ender's Game had essentially nothing but children being violent to each other. That disturbed the heck out of me (so I guess the book succeed on the same level as, say, Schindler's List or Lord of the Flies). In fact, I think Lord of the Flies is the right comparison; Card seems to share the view that humans are born sadists.

I will say, though, that Ender's Game profoundly changed my outlook on life when I read it at age 13. Like Ender, I was smarter than the kids around me, and I subconsciously thought it made me better than other people. Reading about how a boy genius can also be a murderous genocidal jerk was eye-opening in that it helped me start to disconnect "might" and "right" in my mind...

I guess what I mainly hate is how fans of the book often seem to interpret it as being about a good boy-genius who is essentially put-upon by a cruel world (in other words, their preferred vision of themselves). The fact that Ender kills all comers is gratifying to them - that'll teach those bullies/teachers/aliens to pick on the boy genius!

If I could believe that Card was really trying to make Ender a genuinely bad guy (at least until his genocide forces him to reevaluate himself), I would revise my appraisal of the book. But it's left too ambiguous. I can't quite dismiss the idea that maybe Card really is trying to get nerdy 13-year-old male fans to say "Ender slaughters people, **** YEAH!!!"

See, that took more than 400 characters.

 

[ColdSun]

The whole supposed vampire/werewolf/witches love story theme of books which for some reason get categorized as horror. Give me horror with BITE. BTW - I love vampires/werewolves/witches etc. I just hate all these action adventures that live in the horror section. Want vampire horror? 13 Coffins. Salem's Lot. The Necroscope. Want lovey dovey action adventure? Twilight and the monstrous pile of garbage I have to sift through in the horror section that isn't horror.

 

[Scrambles]

Lord Of The.......

Yeah, fell asleep numerous times when reading. I was kinda young though so it might be better if i read it now...... but i have no desire to do so

 

[ChrisW]

Then the author died with the series unfinished. Joke's on you, fans!"

Seriously?

Hrm I guess if you have kids and you die before they grow up the Joke will be on them and anyone who cared about you eh.

Pitty there isn't an ignore button on this forum.

 

[nquixote]

Pitty there isn't an ignore button on this forum.

Well, you know, you could have just not clicked on the link...