R. Scott Bakker - The Second Apocalypse

Roland 85

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Ok, so, I know that The Prince of Nothing has been discussed in some other topics, but I couldn't find one that was dedicated to the series in general, or The Aspect Emperor. If I am wrong, I apologize, but since The Prince... is my favorite fantasy series, I thought I'd post a topic about the whole arc. I'm also posting the review from my bloog:

I read Scott Bakker's fantasy trilogy a few years ago, and it instantly turned into my favorite work in the genre. The rich world-building, magnificent style, the awesome central character, and the scope of the story are something I am yet to see in another fantasy series. It is also one of the greatest examples of how the genre could be so much more than entertainment, weaving into the story thoughts on religion, faith, and most importantly - the extent to which anyone could ever know himself. And so now, while we wait for The White-Luck Warrior - second installment in the second trilogy in the larger arc of The Second Apocalypse - I thought to pay a tribute to this amazing series by writing about it.

The story is set in a world, resembling our pre-medieval ages. Two millenia ago the great Norsirai civilizations of humanity were destroyed in the Apocalypse - a monstrous war between men and Mog-Pharau - the No-God - and its Consult. The conflict finally ended in a victory, but the North was left a wasteland, inhabited by the abominations, created by the Consult. Civilization now thrives in the southern Three Seas - a multitude of nations, sharing Inrithism, the religion of the Thousand Temples... but little else. The Apocalypse is now just tales and superstitions to all but the School of Mandate - sorcerers who each night relive the devastating war through the eyes of their founder - the great sorcerer Seswatha. They know the Apocalypse happened. And they know the No-God was not killed and the Consult still waits to unleash terrible destruction on the world of men.

The countries under the religion of Inrithism are now at the threshold of a Holy War with the heathen Fanim from the desert kingdom of Kian - by far the largest nation in the Three Seas. The Inriti are bound for Shimeh - the birthplace of the Latter Prophet Inri Seijen. And as different factions are trying to bend the Holy War to their own ends, and the fragile balance between the the Great Powers - kingdoms, empires, the Thousand Temples and the Few and their sacrilegious sorcerous Schools - is about to be smashed to pieces, into the world comes a variable that no one could have predicted. In a distant secluded citadel far in the savage North, the Duniain - a strange order of monks - have survived in perfect isolation for two thousand years. And now a man named Anasurimbor Kellhus is sent to find his father... and kill him.

Drussas Achamian - a Mandate sorcerer and spy - follows the Holy War looking for traces of his School's old and elusive enemy, the Consult. Esmeneth is his lover - a prostitute from the city of Sumna, cradle of the Thousand Temples, and her fate is also bound to the Holy War. Cnaur urs Skiyotha is a Scylvendi barbarian from the western steppes - a heathen amidst the righteous Inriti, incapable of escaping the pull of hatred and madness that have been brewing in his heart for thirty years. Those three are connected to Kellhus in more ways than they could imagine, but only Achamian knows what the Norsirai's arrival means. Because the last king of the great kingdom of Kuniuri - now two millenia destroyed by the No-God - was an Anasurimbor. And before he died, he uttered a prophecy that one of his blood would return... at the end of the world.

The time has come for the Second Apocalypse and the rebirth of Mog-Pharau. And Achamion has to find a way to warn the many nations of the Three Seas of an enemy none of them believe in, and prepare them for a war they think just mere legends. But no one could prepare the Three Seas for Anasurimbor Kellhus.

The Prince of Nothing trilogy tells the story of the Holy War. It is the story of one man who tries to bend the world to his will amidst a conflict of epic proportions. And it is a story of sorcery and religion, of zealous faith and poisonous ambition. A huge cast of characters is used to paint the many faces of the Holy War, each of them ugly in one way and beautiful in another. Scott Bakker's style of writing is amazing - both rich and exact, with an unbelievable eye for thrilling detail, creating with seaming ease an atmosphere of epic events and ancient pathos. One that so many fantasy authors spend their whole careers trying to achieve, but never come close to. But the gorgeous prose and the grand story Bakker tells with it are only a part of what makes this trilogy so good. I already mentioned the complex characters. The author uses those to engage in musings about faith and self-analysis sometimes bordering on the obsessive.

As for the fantasy ellements, I don't think I've ever read more glorious description of magic. In The Prince of Nothing's world sorcery is a force of annihilation, a power that tears the fabric of reality, creating wounds that the Few could see. And yet this horrible devastation is delivered through song, the sorcerers singing as their eyes and mouths blaze with blinding light. The way Bakker describes the feeling of the impossible words capable of hurting the world itself, is so poetic and at the same time so intense, that every scene involving sorcery literally sent shivers down my spine. This is one of the many instances where the author has intertwined his philosophical education with his writing, and gives us three different kinds of sorcery. The Anagogis, used by all the Schools but one. It depends on the great Analogies to weave its destruction, but they also bind and limit its power. The glorious Gnosis, magic of the Ancient North, now known only to the School of Mandate. It is the most heavily guarded secret in the Three Seas, and one coveted by all the other Schools. The Abstractions of the Gnosis hold unimaginable power, not restrained by visualization and specific meaning like the Analogies. And then comes the mystical Psuhke, arcane practice of the Cishaurim - Kian's sorcerer-priests. Cruder than both the Anagogis and the Gnosis, it is unique in that its effects are undetectable by the eyes of the Few.

I could go on gushing into ponderous retelling of the story, characters and world, but it would be pointless. I could never do The Prince of Nothing enough justice. It is the single greatest FINISHED fantasy series I've ever read, and one of the most significant pieces of Speculative Literature in my experience. The only way to get a feeling of its epic story and brilliant world-building, the awesome magic system, or the multilayered characters and their tumultous relationships, is - wait for it! - to just read the books. They are not separate, and represent the beginning, middle and ending of a single story. But believe me - The Prince of Nothing is well worth the time investment!

10/10
 
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I happen to be exactly half way through the Prince of Nothing trilogy (half finished with book 2), and I'm pretty disappointed with it.

My comments below aren't really a response to the review above, which basically details only the plot, but is instead my reaction to the work.

The story seems fine, but the prose is, at best, clumsy and the characters are largely one dimensional. The author uses such a limited palette and lack of nuance that the whole thing is like a cartoon world (a world heavily cribbed from the era of the Crusades - a world of Holy War that unimaginatively apportions both "scimitars" and "Jihad" to the "bad guys" as well as replicating the various squabbles/self-inflicted disasters experienced by our own world's "good guy" Crusaders).

One bad writing example that especially grates on my ear is the overuse of the word fool (and fools/foolish/foolishness). Characters are always saying "I'm such a fool" or "He's such a fool" - over and over and over again. It's practically the only way that characters express views of each other. Not only is it lazy writing, but it's not realistic (or nuanced). In real life, while it's not too uncommon for me to think "How can such an otherwise smart and reasonable person say such a thing?", I rarely think of that person as an unmitigated fool. And Bakker should know better, being an English Lit kind of a guy. Clown, ass, oaf, berk, simpleton, chump, gull, mooncalf, mug, jackass, idiot, coxcomb, prat, git, muttonhead, etc. - all these, plus many other earthier and/or more imaginative options are available, but I guess Bakker's just a fool writer. :)

After book 1, I had hoped that someone (his non-existent editor, perhaps?) might have given Bakker a thesaurus, but if so, Bakker didn't get the hint - on page 10 of book 2, Bakker used fool no less than five times in the space of a few lines. I guess it was some sort of statement that he's not fooling around. I've now made something of a game of it - how many pages can Bakker go without using it? :)

Another example of simplistic, crayon-world writing occurs on page 106-107 of book 2, as follows:

"What do you mean, my prince?" Xinemus asked.
"We think things will be more glorious than they are, that they'll unfold according to our hopes, our expectations ..." He unstopped his waterskin, took too long a drink. "The Nansur actually have a word for it," he continued. "We 'idealize.'"
Statements such as this, Cnaiür had decided, partially explained the awe and adoration Proyas roused in his men, including those who were names in their own right, such as Gaidekki and Ingiaban. The mixture of honesty and insight...

Ah, to be able to use the word 'idealize' - awe-inspiring indeed!! (And as a bonus, farther down on page 107, fool is used three more times!)

As can also be seen from this brief passage, the writing is pedestrian and the neologisms are leaden (the name of one Coithus (a significant character appearing elsewhere) seems to me to have been particularly ill "conceived"). :)

So far as the touted boundry-pushing and inclusion of philosophy that I've read about elsewhere, I don't really see it. There are tons of philosophical fantasies out there - Mikhail Bulgakov, Jorge Borges, Brooks Hansen, Victor Pelevin, Ismail Kadare, Salman Rushdie, Jose Saramago, Flann O'Brien, Angela Carter, Cormac McCarthy, Alasdair Gray, G. K. Chesterton, Haruki Murakami, Robert Irwin, and many, many more.

My problem with Bakker's philosophy so far is that it basically all falls in the oh-my-god-thats-so-obvious category and/or the we-hashed-that-one-out-in-jr-high-school category. None of it is thought provoking. I've had more thought provoking philosophical questions come up in YA work (Le Guin - Earthsea, Langton - Hall Family Chronicles, L'Engle - Wrinkle in Time series, etc.)

For straight-up epic fantasy well seasoned with philosophy, not so many. Still, many well written epic fantasies include in an off-hand fashion more thought-provoking philosophy than does Bakker's laborious dialectics. J. R. R. Tolkein, Guy Gavriel Kay, Jack Vance, M. John Harrison, etc.

There are, however, three previous epic fantasies that are strongly philosophical that tower over the Prince of Nothing trilogy - both in terms of philosophy and especially in terms of the quality of the writing and storytelling: Gene Wolfe's massive Sun sequence, E. R. Eddison's Zimiamvian trilogy (plus his The Worm Ouroboros - possibly my personal favorite fantasy book), and T.H. White's The Once and Future King.

So, as to Bakker's originality, you can either say that, yes, there's nothing new under the sun, or, you could say that Bakker has written something shining and new, except that he did it badly. I guess my take (so far!) is that Prince is a fairly generic sort of story, badly told, that includes some interesting elements, but that it fall far short of its ambition. In the hands of another author, this might have been a compelling read.

This might sound like a harsh indictment, but consider, not all books can be great books. In fact, almost all books perforce fall short of the Platonic ideal (there is only one Pale Fire). In your quest for Great Books, one must wade through many a mire (this being one of them), but even mires can have their occasional charms that sustain you. Most books fail to meet high expectations, and this one is one of them.
 
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I read the first book years ago when it first came out and enjoyed it(apart from the start) but have not felt any need to continue the series. Odd that as I've read worse stuff and still finished off those.
 
The Achilles heel for the series in my view is that Bakker wasn't able to get me to believe that other characters would be mesmerized by Kelhus. To be fair Bakker set himself a very difficult task with that but I didn't find Bakker's attempts in that department convincing. We are told they are taken with Kelhus and that has to suffice. If Bakker had been more successful with that I would think much more highly of the series. Even then I wouldn't fancy much the world view Bakker takes and that would limit my enjoyment.
 
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a world of Holy War that unimaginatively apportions both "scimitars" and "Jihad" to the "bad guys"

The Holy War are the bad guys (or rather, some of them are good guys doing something they think is right for completely the wrong reasons and turning fanatical in the process) in this story, as I thought Bakker made clear in the first volume. The Fanim definitely aren't 'the bad guys' (they're the ones defending their invaded territory, for example).
 
I absolutely agree. The Fanim are victims in this story, and ultimately just a sacrificial lamb. As for the clumsy language, I could not disagree more. I've read the books once, and then again when I translated them in my own language. I cannot describe how easily the translation went, how flowing the prose was. But to each his own, I guess..
 
I really enjoyed the first book, but got rather sick of the characters by the mid-point of the second. The "perfect one" was just annoyed me too much to continue.

I like his work, overall, but tolerable characters are a must.
 
Bakker has reported on his site that The White Luck Warrior is completed, some minor polishing and editing aside, and is significantly longer than the previous book, clocking in at around 600 pages in length.

He has also changed the title of Book 3 in the sub-trilogy from The Horns of Golgotterath (which I thought was good) to The Unholy Consult (which is less so). I think we'd gathered after the prologue to The Darkness That Came Before that the Consult were unholy enough.

Interestingly, he seems more certain that the third sub-series will be a duology.
 
I read that too. Hopefully we can see the next book within the beginning of next year...
 
Werthead Wrote:
He has also changed the title of Book 3 in the sub-trilogy from The Horns of Golgotterath (which I thought was good) to The Unholy Consult (which is less so). I think we'd gathered after the prologue to The Darkness That Came Before that the Consult were unholy enough.


Oh, Bakker, why? That was a great title.

Edit: It's weird because I usually quite dislike fantasy titles that get all "yo, I'm fantasy, here's a made-up word" in your face. Some of the titles of Terry Brooks' more recent Shannara books are good examples of the kinds of things I don't think are that effective. I'm trying to figure out why I like "The Horns of Golgotterath", and I think it's at least partially because it sounds threatening. Those who've read this far know what Golgotterath is, and so the effect is greater for them I realize, but I think this series is one of those that has earned a made-up-word title if it wants one. "The Horns of Golgotterath" promises ruin and existential torment. It forbodes. It has a bone to pick with the world. Plus "Golgotterath" is a badass name.
________
LovelyWendie
 
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I liked "Horns of Golgotterath" much more than Unholy Consult. Maybe RSB will be swayed from it, as he was when we convinced him at Three Seas that Thousandfold Thought was much better than "When Sorcerers sing".

Great to hear that this will be a very big book and probably even bigger than The Warrior Prophet. Love this series.
 
I have to say I like The Unholy Consult better. There is a nice ring to it, nice flow. All those stressed Os...
 
I like Unholy Consult far better. It has nicely ominous sound, IMHO. Horns of Golgotterath, OTOH, created in my mind an incongruous vision of horned barbarian warrior.:) Even more cheesy than The Sorcerers Sing. The Shortest Path would be probably best, though.
 
Interesting, I see a few possibilities. It could be that the new title places emphasis more on the 'enemy', who we've actually seen very little of to date, and hopefully explores that, rather than suggestions of yet another large battle with the original title. Personally I would love to see extended sections about the Consult and from their perspective, although I wonder if it may be too alien to pull off successfully. OR, the title is a trick that doesn't actually refer to the Consult but rather some nefarious deal-making. I have this crazed notion that Kelhus has actually formed this army of men simply to have them all in one place for the Consult to wipe out and then he's either one of them or a fragment of the No-God.
 
Erm, not to rain on your parade, but you HAVE noticed that this isn't Marvel Comics right? There are so many reasones why Kelhus would want to destroy the Consult, I can't even begin to list them.
 
I can't wait for The White Luck warrior to come out. I absolutely love Earwa.
I like Horns of Golgotterath better also.
 
Erm, not to rain on your parade, but you HAVE noticed that this isn't Marvel Comics right? There are so many reasones why Kelhus would want to destroy the Consult, I can't even begin to list them.

Hence the usage of 'crazed idea' :D However I think there's only one reason for Kelhus to destroy the Consult, which is that they are the only force that can challenge him and stand in the way of him subjugating the entire world. But, perhaps he thinks he can influence the Consult in the same way he did the Holy War and thus learn their secrets too. Just conspiracy theorising out loud.
 
I think Kellhus knows enough to know that manipulating the Consult is going to be very difficult, if not impossible (plus he's had 20 years of interrogating and killing skinchanger agents to work on that), and he is resolved to destroy them. It is clear that the events of TWP in particular have made Kellhus go from a rational, analytical person to someone who has come to believe his own myth, to a certain extent (based on his hands glowing and hearing the voices, which to be honest could have easily been Consult manipulation). I've also seen an interesting theory that since reality is apparently subjective in Earwa based on faith (the whole reason for the Consult's actions, as 100% of the human populace and 99% of the world's population believe they are damned to hell, they are damned to hell, and the only way to avoid that fate is to wipe out humanity), then Kellhus really has become a god or god-like being as a result of that faith, and been driven mad in the process.

I'm firmly in the camp that believes the Consult is luring Kellhus to Golgotterath, where he will be entombed in the No-God's sarcophagus and become the new avatar of the No-God.
 
Has there been anything ANYWHERE in the books to suggest the No-God needs avatars?
 

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