SF/Fantasy : masterworks

[KatG]

I think it would be very hard to argue Neuromancer isn't to Cyberpunk (or perhaps even Modern SF) what LOTR is to Modern Fantasy.

I would agree with you about "Neuromancer" place with regards to cyberpunk sf. But do a lot of non-fans know "Neuromancer"? That's sort of the litmus test to stand in as the "masterwork" that epitomizes sf.

 

[ArthurFrayn]

I have a bit of a problem with the idea that general popularity is an important measure of whether something is a masterwork. Many acknowledged "masterworks" of art, music and literature are often unknown to the general public. Their status as masterworks is given to the works by a critical audience who has an acute understanding of the particulars of that given artistic discipline.This is what an ideal critic should be, not a shill for a publisher or a shameless populist.
For SF, popularity may be important in the process of marketing a book as a "masterwork", but I don't regard that as any true indication of quality.

I've been burned too many times to think otherwise.

 

[Pothealer]

I have a bit of a problem with the idea that general popularity is an important measure of whether something is a masterwork. Many acknowledged "masterworks" of art, music and literature are often unknown to the general public. Their status as masterworks is given to the works by a critical audience who has an acute understanding of the particulars of that given artistic discipline.This is what an ideal critic should be, not a shill for a publisher or a shameless populist.
For SF, popularity may be important in the process of marketing a book as a "masterwork", but I don't regard that as any true indication of quality.

I've been burned too many times to think otherwise.

Good point. People say Citizen Cain is the best movie ever, but how many people have seen it?

 

[KatG]

If we go with "masterwork" as meaning "masterpiece," then I would agree with you, Arthur. Many works considered masterpieces are not widely known or popular. But if we go with "masterwork" as seemingly defined by the original poster of the thread -- as the work that seems to define the literature and that is the work that people think of when you bring up fantasy or sf, then Tolkein could be seen as being the masterwork of fantasy, whereas sf doesn't seem to have one. But sf does have many masterpieces.

So I guess that means you could go in two directions -- masterpiece, which is going to be a squabble as people seldom agree on this sort of topic, and embodiment, which is a discussion of whether any sf work has the status, the familiarity, and the grounding to stand in as the posterbook for all sf.

 

[ArthurFrayn]

I hear you Kat, and indeed that might have been what the original poster had in mind, but I'm going to roll with what Mugwump said, definition and all.
The word has "master" in it, and that status cannot really be determined by popular consensus.
If you had talked to people in the 70s, they would have picked Johnathan Livingston Seagull as a masterwork.
I personally try to discourage people from using words like "masterpiece" or "masterwork" when they merely mean "popular".
It's a pet peeve.

I don't know if i've ever used the terms to describe a book (or anything) to someone else. I guess I'll never get the job of writing blurbs on the back of SF books.

 

[Grey Sea]

Just wanted to reference a book I've been reading over the course of several years, it's not that it's long I just get distracted. Masterpieces The Best Science Fiction of the Century, edited by Orson Scott Card. He has sub-headed sections into The Golden age, with authors like Heinlein, Asimov, Clarke, and Bradbury; The New Wave with Ellison, Silverberg, Pohl, Le Guin; and finally The Media Generation including the likes of GRRM, Turtledove, Gibson, among others.
Personally I thought of Wells and Verne, rejecting Shelley because of my lack of fondness, despite macabre fascination ,for horror. Notable also where Herbert, and Asimov. So, I also have ran the gamut on authors, not finding any particular work to hold up as THE landmark. For all those reasons mentioned, growing up in magazine form, how far back would I look, realistically who fits the genre, masterpiece vs. popular. While the original poster didn't elaborate or rebutt I think the subject got a lot of play time.

 

[ArthurFrayn]

While the original poster didn't elaborate or rebutt I think the subject got a lot of play time.

Aye, and begorrah, on both counts.