Short Story Competition?

[Fung Koo]

I'm mulling over if there's a need/desire for a friendly short story competition, similar to the flash fiction competition. I'm feeling a bit restless with the flash fic format and would like to have a venue to get and give feedback on a longer format.

I'm thinking it should be bi-monthly (60-day cycle). 40 days of the time will be open for submission and revision, and the final 20 days for voting and commenting.

I would also contemplate a 20 day moratorium on entry. This would be for quality-control purposes, as I would want entrants to make sure they're entering something that is ready-to-submit. No drafts, in other words, that get edited and re-edited several times. But perhaps just a polite rule of "no substantial edits allowed once submitted" would kill that bird. The main issue here is that it's not feasible to allow continual editing as it would require the participants to re-read all the stories over and over, which is too much demand on people's time, IMO.

I'm thinking a 5,000-6,000 word limit would be reasonable (and a 1,500 word minimum). I've contemplated longer, up to a max of 10,000-12,000 words, but I suspect that the longer the limit, the longer the "entry" phase would have to be. Plus, the more reading-time becomes required -- which would especially unwieldy if there are very many entrants. 5,000-6,000 words strikes me as doable in a 60-day competition. And 60-days strikes me as about the longest duration before the length of the competition would outweigh the interest. But I may just have a short attention span

My other reason for the 5,000-6,000 word limit is that that strikes me as a good average word count for submitting short stories for publication. It would be nice if the competition provided the author with good feedback, leading to a publication-worthy piece.

I'd suggest a restriction to SFFH genre-fiction, unlike the flash fic competition. I might even suggest a specific sub-genre restriction, determined by the winner of the previous month.

The theme would be determined by the previous month's winner, same as.

Any thoughts/feedback on any of the above?

I'd appreciate any comments, and I think a test-run is in order beginning December 1st. I know that puts it right over the holidays, which is not great for many, but for a first-run that might actually be ideal.

 

[N. E. White]

I'm in - whatever you want to do, all what you just said.

Oh, just occurred to me. I participated on a similar contest over on the WD forum (I think the limit was 4000 words) and I found it really hard to read that amount of text online (especially since there were about 9 entries). The forum over there is set up differently: the stories were posted in a thread. Which I could then easily copy to a word document and print out. Way easier for me to read. Would it be at all possible to provide the entries in a more printer-friendly format? Maybe Google docs or something? Or maybe put the entries in a thread all to itself (again, easier to copy/paste/print) and folks could offer comments as posts in those individual threads? If I'm the only one with this problem, then just ignore me. I'll make due with copy/paste/print from the Stories section.

 

[Sterling13]

(because I look for reasons to use this phrase whenever possible) It's on like donkey kong.

These contests would be perfect for me... I'm desperate to finally finish one of the stort stories I start, and am terrible about it without a deadline. This would be a great side contest, and, while I'm not sure I'll be able to participate in it each and every time, I am looking for a occasional change of pace to the flash contests.

1,000 to 5,000 words seem to be the normal limits placed by most magazines, so that's what I'd go with.

The submission and review days seem right... 40 to write it, 20 to review and vote. I'm not sure about the first one occuring over the holidays, though. Its your call, and I'm sure you'll still get plenty of entrants, but I doubt I'll be able to do it. But, like you said, it may prove to be the perfect test-run.

As to the theme and/or sub-genre restrictions... well, here's my thoughts - One of the major benefits, as you allude to as well, is to hopefully have a nice publication-worthy piece. So... say there's a narrow theme like "Gorillas" restricted to the sub-genre of horror. Once the contest ends we're left with a couple man-eating gorilla stories competing against each other for magazine slots. Getting published is hard enough without having to go up against stories in the exact same vein. (That's likely an extremem example, and certainly so far none of the flash entries have been anything alike... but just something to keep in mind...)

 

[DailyRich]

I'd be in for this as well. Be nice to have a little more breathing room.

 

[NickeeCoco]

I'm game! That'd be great. Like Sterling, it would get me to work on my more longer pieces. I agree with what you said. 1500 min 6000 max.

As for genre and theme limits, I'm waffling between saying yes and agreeing with Sterling. Like him, I'm looking to send my stories outinto the publishing arena. Editors might become mightily surprised at the amount of man eating gorilla stories popping up. However, if the themes were more vague such as "grief" or "fairy tales", it'd be doable.

 

[Hoodwink]

Blatently ripping off a line from the great Blackadder TV show, I'd be keener than 'Keen' Keano McKeen, winner of last year's "Mister Keen" competition.

The only thing that's going to shift the block I've got at the moment is the sheer necessity to write something.

As to format, I too wish we could use google docs or any tool that exports in PDF, but it's not going to happen while we enjoy the hospitality of this site so entrants need to be prepared to just soldier on with it.

 

[GarrickW]

I'd go for this as well, I think. I'd probably manage to deal with it better, given that I'd have room to develop more of a story. And I like tmso's suggestion - I even have this problem with the flash fiction. I just don't really like reading text on a computer, but copying from the Stories section, for some reason, makes my computer freeze for 15-20 seconds every time I press "Paste," and the end format isn't very printer friendly, with lines and strange indentations and bits of the sidebar taken along for the ride. While hosting documents might not work, I wonder if there might not be another solution?

I personally like the genre/sub-genre restrictions, assuming, as has been said, that the theme is not particularly specific. The kind of themes we get for the flash-fic would be fine, I think, and the extra genre/sub-genre restriction would help narrow down which of your ideas to actually use. (With "Gorilla," though, you could do a story about a hairy, muscular and brutal serial killer, as well; a story about some kind of gorilla god in the jungles who pursues a primatologist, without necessarily looking like a gorilla; a story that appears to be blatantly about gorillas until the last second, when you learn that it had nothing to do with gorillas all along... well, I'm out of ideas, I suppose. )

 

[Scorpion]

Yes, yes and yes!
I don't think there's any danger in us writing the same things... I've never read two flash fics that were alike.
As to the copying/format/printing. When I copy the text into my Word 2007, there's no problem at all. And even if there were, you can always click "Clear all Formatting". No..?

 

[SuperFede]

I might be in. My real problem is not actually writing the story but reading all the others.

I believe that most of us who participate in the flash fiction every month will most probably enter so you get around 15 entries (or more) and I asume most will use and abuse the 5000 upper limit so that is like 75000+ to read in 20 days. I'm not sure i will make it. But that is just me.

I am very tempted to have a submitable story, and all of your crits are more than helpfull for me. If something has made me improve my writing are all of you guys and girls.

and what about the flash fiction contest? should it continue in parallel? another 15 to 20k words to read in 1 week.....

BTW, i don't think there will be two stories alike. Even with genre sub-genre restrictions. Judging by experience with the Flash fiction in the over a year that i have been reading it, not once i have seen stories alike.

I shall try.... but time, it seems, is always against me.

will gorillas be the first theme??? mmm gorillas, horror. dismemberment, killing. I won't be able to resist that!!!

 

[zachariah]

I would not enter, but I would read and vote and comment.

Reason being, I'm trying to get some shorts going for submission anyway, and some places consider any form of prior online publishing as disqualification from consideration. Also, given my meagre output, it would take too much energy from the novel.

 

[Hoodwink]

I too had some concerns about the quantity of stories that require and deserve feedback. They led to the idea we might borrow a method from the writing workgroups.

Say, at the start of the voting phase you're allocated two other entries that you're required to feedback in detail on. Overlaying that duty could be the expectation that you'll comment on the story (or stories if it's multiple voting) that you vote for, but that this commentary doesn't have to be quite as detailed. It just needs to explain why you're voting. Of course, if you end up voting for one of the stories you were assigned feedback duties to, well and good.

Finally, though not obligatory, we'd all try and offer at least some comment on each entry to prove that we read them and considered them fairly.

I think that each of us needs to consider when entering a story (which is, it seems, the easy part) that we're also entering an informal contract here: the expectation that everyone will read our story, and say something about it, against the equal duty to respond in kind. Quid pro quo, as Hannibal Lecter would say. I think that we ought to therefore try to constrain our eagerness to enter just a little (without strangling it to death) - long enough to truthfully ask ourselves the question "will I be able to offer some feedback in return during the voting phase?". If the answer isn't a certain yes, it might be better to hold back.

That's just my three-pence (five-cents) worth and in no way meant to browbeat anyone or steer the idea down pathways that suit me personally.

These thoughts also lead me to conclusion that I could also just sit back and trust to the Fung, who is wise in the ways of these things

 

[Hereford Eye]

In the words of the old master: looks good to me.

 

[N. E. White]

FYI - not to squash feedback (you know I want feedback), but the way they did it on the other forum I participated in was that no feedback was given during the voting/reading phase. That's because, well, it's a huge burden. It's a lot to go through. With a contest of this size (word limit size), it's just a lot to ask to have folks critique that much, even if it's just one or two (that's what Critters.org is for, or the workshop here on this forum - I guess, I've never used that).

After the contest, if participates wanted, they offered their stories for line edits to the group. That seemed to work well. It got a lot of people voting (I actually got 5 votes on my stupid dragon story!).

Just my two-cents worth (I can't afford 5-cents).

 

[Sterling13]

I would not enter, but I would read and vote and comment.

Reason being, I'm trying to get some shorts going for submission anyway, and some places consider any form of prior online publishing as disqualification from consideration. Also, given my meagre output, it would take too much energy from the novel.

The "some places consider any form of prior online publishing as disqualification" is a potential dealbreaker for me... I write so infrequently as is, I really want whatever my final product is to at least be submit-able.

I seem to remember Katg or Holbrook mentioning something about this in some other thread... I was hoping, though, as long as I deleted my story from the site after the competition, I would still be able to submit it elsewhere. Do you have specific feedback regarding this, zachariah, or is this regarding the same post and just general experience? Anyone "in the know" care to comment?

If such is the case... well, that takes us to posting our stories where its not in the public domain (ie, some shared google group), rather than SFFWorld... which then a voting thread here would look a little silly... and, by that point, why not all just participate in some outside writing group? (which is really NOT what I want)


The wet blanket has been thrown!

 

[N. E. White]

I think, using a contest of this sort to get your possible submissions into submittal form is not what these contests should be used for, in my opinion. I think they are an exercise on how to write a story of a certain length to the very best of your ability within the time contraints. That's how I see these contests.

I believe a writer's workshop is the best for getting your stories to a submitable stage. But - what the hell do I know! As long as we are all learning and having fun - how ever this get's set up, I'm game.

 

[Daddy Darth]

I would consider entering as well. It would depend very much as to whether inspiration struck. I can force my way through a 1000 words by sheer will but 5000 its hard to say. I'm not concerned personally about publication - not on the radar yet for me. Some time in the near future who knows. I just like telling stories and getting some feedback. How lame is that.
TTFN

 

[Sterling13]

I think, using a contest of this sort to get your possible submissions into submittal form is not what these contests should be used for, in my opinion. I think they are an exercise on how to write a story of a certain length to the very best of your ability within the time contraints. That's how I see these contests.

I believe a writer's workshop is the best for getting your stories to a submitable stage. But - what the hell do I know! As long as we are all learning and having fun - how ever this get's set up, I'm game.

You are correct - you will not get the detailed feedback that you would from a writer's workshop. I expect I would be giving (and receiving) the same 4-5 sentence critiques as in the flash contests.

But, for me, the contest does 2 things that push me towards a submittable work:
1) They give me a deadline... which I appear to be incapable of working without
2) The competition itself pushes me to produce better and better pieces

That's really what I'm looking for... something to put me on a 2 month deadline, and the challenge of competing with yunz.

From there we can each take our works and tidy them up as we choose - be that a local writing group, an online forum, or an infinitely patient friend...

 

[SuperFede]

I'm not concerned personally about publication - not on the radar yet for me. Some time in the near future who knows. I just like telling stories and getting some feedback. How lame is that.
TTFN

Don't feel bad about it.... same here. I don't think it is lame. I consider it a hobbie. I would love to be published, but I just don't know how to... not that my work is good enough....

but we'll get there sooner or later....

 

[N. E. White]

I just like telling stories and getting some feedback.

We all want that, DD. And if someone says they like it - WOW. It's a nice feeling.

 

[Hoodwink]

I'm just writing because if I do it regularly, I seem to get better at it, and the moment I stop, I quickly plummet to a level of 1.2 Goodkinds.

Also, chicks dig writers.

If my wife reads this: honey, that last bit was just a joke.

If Terry reads this: that's why you don't get any.

Being serious, if it transpires that I can submit for publication something that's previously been on this site so long as it's no longer on this site, then I'll consider removing it (and from my blog), but in the meantime, my output on here is purely for learning and most importantly for me, fun.