So how are y'all preparing for the Apocalypse?

[JacenAster]

Because they can’t happen in one country only. Even if it’s USA. For example you can’t just withdraw from Iraq or Afghanistan. Because Russia or other superpower will move in and US will have to react to it somehow. If US will suddenly cease all its current external politics it will probably collapse like USSR in 1991. Obama and his administration knew this, still they promised change because they needed those votes.

That ignores the cascade effect. Any country of significant power can radically alter the flow of power and money the world over simply by screwing itself or someone else over. Not that I'm saying that's how it will work, it's just a serviceable example. The reality is that, with the interconnected nature of the modern world, "mutually assured destruction" has moved from nuclear weapons to economies. You need look no farther than the relationship between China and the USA to see clear evidence of that. Which, of course, is why their market took a sharp downturn, as they understand what will happen to everyone involved if Trump actually tries to follow through on his rhetoric. In the end, you have in backward, rather than "it can't happen in one country" the reality is that "it can happen anywhere because it's all the same system."

It happens all the time for various reasons.
Fundamental changes in economy are nationalization, massive government interference or liberalization, transition to socialistic model, etc. I don’t see how Trump can do any of this. He claims that he will stand up to China and revive American industry but the way he describe it his promises seem to be lip service (same with Hilary and her big talks about helping the poor and creating eco-friendly energy).

You seem to be defining "fundamental change" in a ridiculously narrow way. Under your definition virtually nothing constitutes a change. It's like claiming that replacing all cheddar cheese with pepper jack worldwide isn't a fundamental difference. Because, after all, they are both cheese.

When people believe that both candidates are equally evil it's natural they just do not want to elect any of them and thus be responsible for it.

That's really only a partial answer. Two more pieces include inconvenience and disinterest. Some states still have very asinine voting systems, for example. It took me an hour to vote in Missouri, and that was much shorter than for many people, some of whom endured upwards of a three hour wait to get their ballot in. Not exactly something you can spare the time for if you have a job and kids.

As for the disinterest...Trump was elected by the older generations, millennials actually sided by a significant margin with Hillary. Sadly, they (We, actually, as I'm technically a millennial. Even if I'm on the older side at 30) have very little stake in the results, even if most of millennials are better aware than ever of what the results will mean. I actually wrote a blog post(The Death of Politics) prior to the elections about that very topic. Though I've almost taken it down several times, as I know perfectly well that the idea is a contentious one that will piss a hell of a lot of people off.

I wrote it not out of declaration that I didn't care, so much as an attempt to explain the mindset to people of the generations that have had...damn it's hard to explain...even after rewriting this sentence a half dozen times. I suppose it's an attempt to explain to people who the political system has always affected. The "traditional family" and "American dream" generations who's typical lifestyle and structure (or that of their friends and associates) is meaningfully impacted by the results of high-level politics.

Even that's a horribly, horribly bad attempt to explain. But I had to settle for it after deleting the whole thing a dozen times. In some ways the difference in mindset is so fundamental that it's like trying to explain the color blue, not to a blind man, but to an alien that sees light in a different set of wavelengths.

 

[Fish Owl]

You need look no farther than the relationship between China and the USA to see clear evidence of that.

This is precisely why Trump won’t be able to fulfill his promises about protecting US market from Chinese companies.

You seem to be defining "fundamental change" in a ridiculously narrow way.

Fundamental - something that is an essential or necessary part of a system or object. Switching from one kind of cheese to another is not a fundamental change. Switching to other kind of product (not cheese) is fundamental.

You mentioned cascade effect, interdependence and world economic crises. But all recent crises like 2008 developed inside one system and the system itself remained intact. On the other hand economic collapse at the beginning of XX century was different because it introduced entirely new system in form of socialistic and Keynesian economy.

It is true that Trump may lead to similar great changes but I myself don’t see any objective preconditions or new revolutionary ideas.

Anyway time will tell.
Thank you very much for sharing your opinion.

 

[Windshadow]

This is precisely why Trump won’t be able to fulfill his promises about protecting US market from Chinese companies.

There have been bad presidents in the past even flat out populist ones (see Andrew Jackson for an early 19th century version of Trump...though as a general he perhaps had a better concept of what actual leadership is than Trump has shown...
The separation of powers of the US system will frustrate Trump if he actually tries to do some of the things he has promised to do... or I hope it does.

 

[C.E. Gee]

Silly, person. We don't need this crazy election to prepare for the Apocalypse!

Okay, I'll go first and admit, that yes, indeed, I have prepared for the Apocalypse*.

So, just how am I preparing for the Apocalypse?

• Lemons. More specifically, citrus. I have two tangerine trees and access to a Myers lemon tree.
• Wool. Yeah, there's a hell of lot of plastic around right now, but as soon as we stop manufacturing the evil stuff, there goes all our awesome synthetic clothing that keeps us relatively warm and dry. We'll have to go back to the old standby - wool.
• Charcoal. Easy, peasy water filter. I know how to create one on the fly and I've got several small charcoal filters prepared to use when the time comes - because we all know - it's a coming!

*You can chose to believe this or not.

As a Vietnam Vet (1968, Iron Triangle, 1st Infantry Division) my recommendation is that you arm yourself with a semi-automatic rifle and a pistol. Make sure you have lotsa ammo.

NAMASTE and good luck!!!!

C.E. Gee AKA Chuck

http://www.kinzuakid.blogspot.com

 

[Windshadow]

“No one in this world, so far as I know — and I have searched the records for years, and employed agents to help me — has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people. Nor has anyone ever lost public office thereby.”
H.L. Mencken in his Chicago Daily Tribune Column on September 19, 1926

Mencken%2520underestimating%2520the%2520intelligence-8x6.jpg

 

[JacenAster]

Fundamental - something that is an essential or necessary part of a system or object. Switching from one kind of cheese to another is not a fundamental change. Switching to other kind of product (not cheese) is fundamental.

You mentioned cascade effect, interdependence and world economic crises. But all recent crises like 2008 developed inside one system and the system itself remained intact. On the other hand economic collapse at the beginning of XX century was different because it introduced entirely new system in form of socialistic and Keynesian economy.

It is true that Trump may lead to similar great changes but I myself don’t see any objective preconditions or new revolutionary ideas.

Anyway time will tell.
Thank you very much for sharing your opinion.

For chedder to be chedder it must look and taste within a specific measure. Fundamentally, for it to be pepper jack, something has changed on a essential level. Or, for a better example, in order to be Scotch, the whiskey must be made in Scotland. Make it elsewhere, with the same method, and it is not Scotch, a fundamental change.

I think, in truth, most of our polite disagreement is stemming from a simple perception/definition difference. I actually completely agree with you that Trump is extremely unlikely to result in what you consider a fundamental change. On the other hand it is much more probable that he will result in a change that I define as fundamental. And, as you say, time will tell(in fact, I believe I said the same earlier in different words ^_^).

“No one in this world, so far as I know — and I have searched the records for years, and employed agents to help me — has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people. Nor has anyone ever lost public office thereby.”
H.L. Mencken in his Chicago Daily Tribune Column on September 19, 1926

On the other hand:
"Never underestimate the power of human stupidity."
Robert A. Heinlein

 

[Fish Owl]

Please mind that English is not my native language. I try to follow definition from a vocabulary. And in my perception "fundamental" is something that is changing the entire system making it obsolete and introducing something new. Much like Bourgeoisie revolutions of 18-th century or Marxism is 20-th century. And I highly doubt that Trump is capable of something this magnitude.

 

[JacenAster]

Please mind that English is not my native language. I try to follow definition from a vocabulary. And in my perception "fundamental" is something that is changing the entire system making it obsolete and introducing something new. Much like Bourgeoisie revolutions of 18-th century or Marxism is 20-th century. And I highly doubt that Trump is capable of something this magnitude.

Nah, it's not your English. The English language is simply rather horrible for accuracy (though I have no idea if other languages are comparatively better). Both interpretations are completely valid for the word "fundamental," based on your point of view. In essence it isn't a difference in the definition of "fundamental" so much as a differing perception of which changes to a system or object represent changes of something "essential."

 

[N. E. White]

Yeah, what I find essential, others might not.

 

[Fish Owl]

The English language is simply rather horrible for accuracy (though I have no idea if other languages are comparatively better).

Good to know. Both in Ukrainian and Russian it is obvious when you make this kind of statement. I think inability to be decisive with one word goes to the traditions of democracy.

 

[Av Demeisen]

Good to know. Both in Ukrainian and Russian it is obvious when you make this kind of statement. I think inability to be decisive with one word goes to the traditions of democracy.

There's less confusion when you're forced to toe the party line?

 

[Fish Owl]

There's less confusion when you're forced to toe the party line?

it's not working like that. I really starting to think every US citizen should spend at least few month in a country like North Korea. Just to understand how life really is there and in similar countries. I think it would improve US foreign politics greatly.

 

[Matthew Hughes]

I really starting to think every US citizen should spend at least few month in a country like North Korea.

I think every US citizen should spend time in a developed country where the idea of the public good is still operational.

 

[hscope]

The saddest part of this election is that so many people believe they have voted for change, but the champagne corks popping on Wall Street show what's really happened.

 

[JacenAster]

I think every US citizen should spend time in a developed country where the idea of the public good is still operational.

Wait, those exist? Where? I want to plan my move.

 

[Matthew Hughes]

The saddest part of this election is that so many people believe they have voted for change...

I expect they'll be getting some change, all right.

 

[Matthew Hughes]

Wait, those exist? Where? I want to plan my move.

France. The quality of public amenities is first rate.

 

[Fish Owl]

France. The quality of public amenities is first rate.

This is actually what people from other countries believe USA is.

 

[Av Demeisen]

This is actually what people from other countries believe USA is.

Misinformed people from developing or third world countries, sure. They buy into the fairytale of the American Dream.

"The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it." - George Carlin

 

[hscope]

This is actually what people from other countries believe USA is.

I love visiting America and will continue to do so regularly, but living there? Nah, it's much better here in Australia in pretty much every aspect. And I think that's a common sentiment in most developed countries*, as compared to those nations the US appears to be socially undeveloped, and even backward when it comes to health care. The fear of socialism, I suppose. I also shudder when I hear America described as the greatest country on earth. Not one of my American friends who has travelled overseas has ever made that claim.

*My opinion based on discussions with friends in Europe, Canada and here, who, like me, can be described as middle class.