So how are y'all preparing for the Apocalypse?

[Fish Owl]

As you can see I edited my post (before your reply) because I see no sense in repeating same statement every time with different examples. BTW Japan was not really big Empire if you count out puppet states (Manchuria, Chinese pro-Japanese government, allied Thailand, etc). Just saying.

 

[RX-79G]

As you can see I edited my post (before your reply) because I see no sense in repeating same statement every time with different examples. BTW Japan was not really big Empire if you count out puppet states (Manchuria, Chinese pro-Japanese government, allied Thailand, etc). Just saying.

That's fine, I just don't understand why you're labeling me a shill for the US.

 

[Fish Owl]

I got that impression because you tend to oversimplify matters and use stereotypes typical for USA media. Like with RoK. And this whole affair with gas strike is presented very one sided by Western media. There was no international investigation and you say that gas attack was commenced by Assad from that specific airbase as a given fact.

 

[RX-79G]

I got that impression because you tend to oversimplify matters and use stereotypes typical for USA media. Like with RoK. And this whole affair with gas strike is presented very one sided by Western media. There was no international investigation and you say that gas attack was commenced by Assad from that specific airbase as a given fact.

There was a UN investigation, and the UN lays the action at the feet of the Assad government:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-24130181

I'm not oversimplifying when I say that each country's history and situation is unique and needs to be judged individually.

 

[Fish Owl]

This investigation is about different attack. And was conducted 3 years ago.

 

[RX-79G]

This investigation is about different attack. And was conducted 3 years ago.

You are correct - I found the wrong article.

The reason Canada, the US, the UK and France are all claiming that it was an Assad airstrike is because of the previous Assad use of gas, and that there is no grounds for the (unexplained) Russian counter-story that a rebel gas factory had been hit. If Russia has data to explain the dispersal from a ground site, or intelligence showing their knowledge of such a facility, they haven't brought it to the UN.

What you seem to discount is the fact that the US has been trying to keep out of Syria, and that Trump is an isolationist who doesn't want to spend money on Middle East conflicts (or Middle Eastern people). Syria is not of particular strategic or economic value to the US (unlike Iraq). Everyone seems to understand that Assad and his backers are too strong to be overcome by rebels, so if the goal is just to stop the distasteful flow of refugees into Europe, returning power to Assad is the cheapest way to deal with the problem. From our perspective, the ONLY reason to get involved in Syria is due to the human rights abuses, not for 9/11 payback or oil.

 

[Fish Owl]

...and such desire to protect human rights is the reason war continue, more atrocities happen and the alternative to Assad is ISIS.

 

[RX-79G]

...and such desire to protect human rights is the reason war continue, more atrocities happen and the alternative to Assad is ISIS.

ISIS won't exist for too much longer. No Arab nation state can tolerate that kind of cancer.

War is continuing and has been for some time now. It isn't like the discussion is about attacking an otherwise peaceful country, but a war zone that is causing a global refugee crisis.


Here's the latest from the UN:
https://www.un.org/press/en/2017/sc12777.doc.htm

 

[Fish Owl]

'but the means of delivery could not be confirmed.'

Meaning: they can't say who did it. Only that it was caused by air strike.

 

[RX-79G]

Who else is operating military aircraft over Syria, and why would they drop gas?

 

[Fish Owl]

operating military aircraft over Syria

See 'means of delivery could not be confirmed.' They can't say that's an airstrike. It was caused by the airstrike. See the difference?

why would they drop gas?

And why would Assad do it? He could pull the plug when he was pressed in Damascus in 2012-2014. But why now? After the fall of Aleppo? It's political suicide totally pointless from any perspective.

 

[RX-79G]

I'm unsure why the leader of a tiny country with a lot of negative attention for rights abused would have risked world condemnation by using gas in 2013, either. Since his Russian and Chinese support haven't wavered, maybe Assad doesn't see any greater "suicide" than he did 4 years ago.

When is using nerve gas a shrewd political move?

 

[Fish Owl]

a tiny country

Syria is not tiny by any means. It is bigger than Greece and Hungary and have 17 million population. For a lot of reasons this country is imporant strategic foothold in Middle East.

I'm unsure why the leader of a tiny country with a lot of negative attention for rights abused would have risked world condemnation by using gas in 2013

Before Russia started to support Assad directly he couldn’t even control his own capital. And Russia was not heavily involved in the conflict before 2015. Assad saw what rebels did to Gaddafi and his family and knew there was no going back if rebels advance towards Damascus. This is why he could use any measures to save his own skin.

It was before ISIS became a major threat and he was considered Enemy of Democracy №1. Today public opinion in both Middle East and Europe began to change. Almost everyone is considering Assad “lesser evil” compared to terrorists. And now he ruins it all by using gas attack. I highly doubt his Russian advisors would allow it since they spend lot of time and money on him and his new image.

 

[RX-79G]

Syria is not tiny by any means. It is bigger than Greece and Hungary and have 17 million population. For a lot of reasons this country is imporant strategic foothold in Middle East.

It is an important strategic foothold - for Russia, featuring their only Mediterranean naval base, an air base and several other facilities.

Before Russia started to support Assad directly he couldn’t even control his own capital. And Russia was not heavily involved in the conflict before 2015.

Russia has been selling a massive amount of weapons to Assad in exchange for forgiving $9.8 billion in debt in 2006, including installation of air defense systems in 2011.

Assad saw what rebels did to Gaddafi and his family and knew there was no going back if rebels advance towards Damascus. This is why he could use any measures to save his own skin.

Are you suggesting that the only way for the rich Assad and his UK citizen wife to not be killed by his citizenry is to gas them? Many deposed dictators have found safe haven in other countries - especially ones who are worth $1.5 billion.

I highly doubt his Russian advisors would allow it since they spend lot of time and money on him and his new image.

I think you are minimizing the sort of Russian advice Assad was already receiving when he killed 1200 people with Sarin in 2013. This is a sophisticated, Western educated man - not a third world warlord.

All of his support comes from other totalitarian regimes - just not all of them.

 

[Fish Owl]

Are you suggesting that the only way for the rich Assad and his UK citizen wife to not be killed by his citizenry is to gas them?

Gaddafi and his family had even stronger ties with Europe.

I think you are minimizing the sort of Russian advice Assad was already receiving when he killed 1200 people in 2013.

I think after pouring so much money in him and Syria Russia would never allow him to do something like this on his own. If he did - we soon will have a new Syrian leader more obedient and loyal.

This is a sophisticated, Western educated man.

Like Pol Pot before him.

 

[RX-79G]

Gaddafi and his family had even stronger ties with Europe.

Europe wasn't going to rescue him - he would have had to leave, first. Like the Shah, the Marcos, Idi Amin, Noreiga, etc.

I think after pouring so much money in him and Syria Russia would never allow him to do something like this on his own. If he did - we soon will have a new Syrian leader more obedient and loyal.

Maybe Russia encourages Assad's self destruction so they can install their regime? That would certainly explain allowing Assad to use gas.

Like Pol Pot before him.

Pol Pot studied radio tech in Paris in the '50s. Assad is a medical doctor with advanced studies in London and a wife with an MBA from Harvard. There is little comparison.

 

[Fish Owl]

Maybe Russia encourages Assad's self destruction so they can install their regime? That would certainly explain allowing Assad to use gas

Maybe so. This is precisely why investigation is required before any rash actions.

 

[Av Demeisen]

 

[Av Demeisen]

 

[Av Demeisen]

The writers/producers didn't realize they were PREDICTING THE FUTURE, not mocking the present.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/13/magazine/mike-judge-the-bard-of-suck.html?_r=0