Star Wars: Attack of the Fans

[Merancapeman]

Viva la Star Wars! We, the serious, SERIOUS fans, all know that Yoda was horrible. We all know the Force was a more complex thing then just a bacteria in blood cells, we all know the LIMIUAHGA disease spreading among the directorship of the newly created series, but we can't do anything about it. So, let's debate!

Begin your rants and raves, and unleash your anger! Although, anger leads to hate, and hate leads to suffering. Still, Yoda's recent and most utterly frustrating verbage is enough to scream about for hours.

 

[Shehzad]

Darth Shehzad here, and ready to rant.

KILL THE EWOKS!

(I have way too many old rants on this topic to rehash them... but maybe, when I finish reading Revenge of the Sith, I'll comment).

 

[juzzza]

What are you a serious, SERIOUS fans of?

The old movies, the Star Wars universe... what?

I find this anti-Lucas thing interesting... It reminds me of the whole Bill Gates thing.

What are you doing to make the franchise better? I'll tell you what, you're still going to see the movies and you're probably still buying the books and comics and toys... you're certainly talking about it, which keeps it alive.

I've seen the films more than any other film in my lifetime but still see it as entertainment and nothing more. The original trilogy was PG and I don't recall adults at the time whining about it not being dark enough.

 

[Merancapeman]

When I say serious fans, I don't mean someone who will try and integrate books and cartoons. That's just plain silly. Don't mean to steryotype, however. This is, simply, a rant and rave thread on Star Wars.

 

[Erfael]

What are you doing to make the franchise better? I'll tell you what, you're still going to see the movies and you're probably still buying the books and comics and toys... you're certainly talking about it, which keeps it alive.

I'm not. I've been pretty disappointed with I and II, so probably will not see III. I MAY sit in a book store and read Matt's novelization of it. But that's more because it's Matt than because it's SW.

And no books, comics, or toys bought here.

 

[Solaar]

Ok, so what do I do about this?

My missus is 22 and absolutely refuses to watch ANY of the Star Wars films. She hasn't seen any either.

I can't force her...

Solaar
failed in the force

 

[Eurytus]

What are you doing to make the franchise better? I'll tell you what, you're still going to see the movies and you're probably still buying the books and comics and toys... you're certainly talking about it, which keeps it alive.

I wasn't aware it was up to the fans to repair the franchise. That's an interesting concept. And quit with the stereotyping. No we will not all buy the books and comics and toys, nor even see the films at the cinema in the case of some of us.

I have not brought a toy since I was a child back in the early 80's, and I would no more dream of buying an expanded universe book than I would pay for fan fiction. Stories about what Boba Fett did as a teenager I can do without.

As for the films, well I never thought it would come to this but I highly doubt I will watch ROTS at the cinema. I only saw AOTC once after all and I have never watched the film in its entireity a second time. Not even when it is on the TV for free.

It may be true that people hold the PT to a ridiculously high standard sometimes. But why shouldn't they. Many people habitually vote Star Wars and ESB in the top 5 films of all time (which I think is ludicrous but there you go) so quite obviously when a film is produced that is woeful they are going to get upset.

And on the other side of the equation there are plenty of people who give the films a pass because they are Star Wars. If they didn't have the name attached the two PT film's would have taken only 10% of what they did at the box office. They were terrible.

I've seen the films more than any other film in my lifetime but still see it as entertainment and nothing more. The original trilogy was PG and I don't recall adults at the time whining about it not being dark enough.

Firstly the OT was not required to be dark. It is the story of defeating the enemy. The PT is the story of defeat and betrayal. Hence some darkness is expected.

But the big difference is that the OT did not patronise its audience. Things weren't shoehorned in solely for a laugh (until ROTJ) and lines like "wanna buy a deathstick" simply would not have got a look in.

In retrospect the rot started with the Special Editions. Pretty much everything that was added was either for eye candy or for jokes. Witness the argument between the large and small droids in Mos Eisley wherein the smaller one goes Nah, nah, na, nah, na and gets whacked on the head.

In one fell swoop Georgie went from Joseph Cambell to the 3 Stooges in Space.

 

[Solaar]

But can anyone honestly say that the series has improved with the three 'new' films?

Anyone?

Solaar
laying down the challenge

 

[Evil Agent]

It has improved visually, that's it. Of course the prequels have not improved the series, they're simply not as good as the original trilogy. But to me that's not really the point, I realized about 6 years ago that they weren't going to improve upon anything.

Theres some stuff I hate in the new trilogy (Jar-Jar, some of Hayden Christensen's performance, even some of the otherwise talented Natalie Portman), but there's still plenty that I enjoy (Palpatine/Sidious and his manipulation of the Republic, Obi-Wan is pretty cool, all the droid and clone armies and battles), and of course I'm looking most forward to Episode III since it's the birth of Darth Vader.

One thing I have to say is that I DON'T think Episode III will be very dark... not nearly as dark as everyone is hoping for, despite Lucas himself saying that it would be. To Lucas, Ewoks fighting is 'dark'. He doesn't understand the term. The Star Wars prequels are kind of like the Spiderman movies, too colorful and bright to ever be a dark film.

In fact, one of the most telling quotes I ever saw from Lucas, showed me that he really HAS NO IDEA how the modern movie world works! It was actually quite disturbing to see how out of touch he is. Basically he said that he thought Episode I would make the most money, then Episode II would make only half as much, and finally Episode III would make half THAT much. His reasoning was that each film was going to be darker, and so would earn less money because less people would enjoy it. Poor man! He doesn't even realize that we WANT dark! DARK DARK DARK, please! That's what we want! And he thinks the exact opposite, he thinks he's making it dark because it has to be, but that the fans will hate it.

 

[Solaar]

Improved visually?

I'm arguiong that.

Solaar
doesn't think so

 

[BlackCauldron]

Anyone read the article about the Star Wars fans that have been waiting in line outside a theater that isn't going to show it? Hilarious.

 

[kahnovitch]

I think Star Wars had been killed by it's own reputation.

It has been voted the greatest film (series) of all time, and George Lucas had a Hell of a lot to live up to, resurrecting this beast.

Personally I think he screwed up. If he hadn't made the new prequels, Star Wars would have kept it's legendary status as an all time classic, but I think he just got greedy and figured he could cash in on the previous rollercoaster success of the earlier films.

I think we were all initially excited when we heard the news of a new Stars Wars film, but then in the backs of our minds we knew it would be a tall order to follow on from the original trilogy.

Lucas knew all the original fans (now in their 30's) would be drooling in anticipation of reliving a legendary part of our childhood.
He knew that we queue up and cough up our cash to see a "new" Star Wars film, as it's reputation precedes it.

But he didn't deliver.

Maybe it was too tall an order, and he should have just left it alone?

Or perhaps we all just grew up and became more critical and skeptical?

Either way I doubt if Lucas cares too much.

He's raked in our cash with all the merchandising, rehashing the old films, book and comic spin offs, games spinoffs, and I doubt if he cares that he's soiled the memory of something that was once good.

Yeah, I feel a bit robbed by the new films, but then again I don't think they could ever have compared to the memory I had of the old series as a 7 year old boy.

Even though Lucas has disappointed all us "first generation" Star Wars fans, I think deep down we cling to the hope that he'll get it right in each progressive film.
We're probably all praying silently inside with crossed fingers muttering; "Please don't suck!", as we hand over the ticket money for (what may be) the last even Star Wars film.

We hope to God it's going to be good, so our last memory of Star Wars will be;

"YES! It feels good to be a fan again! Praise the Lord!"

 

[Shehzad]

Kahn: you've nailed it.

 

[Erfael]

Maybe it was too tall an order, and he should have just left it alone?

Or perhaps we all just grew up and became more critical and skeptical?

I don't really think it's either of those. I think he just did a poor job. I think he could have had any number of people to help him make a respectful, powerful, really good addition to the series, but he just dove in and threw something together.

I went into the prequels with little to no preconceptions about what they SHOULD be, but I came out of them with pretty firm ideas about what they SHOULD NOT be. And he pretty much nailed what they should not be.

And I think Eury (I think it was him...didn't look back through) was right when he said that the problems started with the extended editions. Before the extended editions, these movies never broke the fourth wall. There are movies that are self-contained and there are movies that are aware of the audience. By which I mean, some movies tell great self-contained stories, while others break the fourth wall and bring the audience into it consciously, something the original series didn't do and was stronger for it. All of the pop culture stuff really detracts from the weightiness of what the story could be: the announcers at the races, and the fart gags, and such.....

 

[Merancapeman]

One theory I have is that he made the first one for kiddies; an introduction to the third generation Star Wars fans. It's another reason why he probably made so much money, because all the kids noticed the movie had explosions, aliens (from another world, no doubt) with two heads that sounded like radio announcers, and robots that had so much emotion that the only thing keeping them from being human is the shell they carry. I was enraged at the movie. I'd never had so much heartburn in my life. But let me tell you, I bet the kids loved it. Sure, it's a nice thing that the kids love it, but what about the better of the population that held him in high esteem for the last Star Wars he did? Not only did he screw up, but he didn't have a way to back out. You can't say, "Oh, well I'll make another movie and clear all that up!". If there was ANYTHING that could clear that all up, it would have to be a WHOLE redo in the next 40 years or so. Of course, I don't have high hopes for it either. All in all, I have to try my hardest and pretend this never happened:

1.The Force is a spiritual manifestation, not a biological issue.

2. Yoda is wise, he doesn't need to show off with flips and twists, and he is strong in the force, not in the body. This teaches us that brains can be better then brawn.

3. Anakin wasn't a arrogant, bad acting (actor problem) brat who, by luck (not force), saved half the universe by destroying a trade federation ship and (magically) not getting credit for it. Ever noticed that? Nobody "congratulated" him for his astounding pot shot in the landing bay of the ship which, by chance and somehow, destroyed the entire thing. Wonder what would happen if someone had crash landed in that thing...

4. Things aren't as shiny and elegant and they were presented. Even ratty clothes were still clean of filth!

5. Robots didn't have accents. They were trained to speak almost 6 million languages, and one of them was not "Boston".

6. ect... ect.... ect.... You know where this leads.... If the problem arises again, I'll add more to this list...

 

[Evil Agent]

I agree that Kahn nailed it, 100%. I think the problem was the nostalgia factor. Sequels can work, but rarely can sequels work over 20 years later! Especially since the original movies REVOLUTIONIZED pop culture in the 1980s. They were huge, they transcended themselves. These days re-watching the original films shows you that they weren't really THAT amazing...it was what the films did to pop culture that makes them feel so legendary today.

There's just no way any prequels could match that, in an age where almost EVERY big movie has effects that are just as good or better than Star Wars!

Despite all that, and the heartbreaking disappointment for what 'could have been', I know we'll all be in line next month, feeling for the last time that little thrill in your stomach as you prepare to see the opening star wars credits, and hear that music... at least he didn't mess with the opening sequence, that could possibly be the best part of the prequels!

 

[saintjon]

Viva la Star Wars! We, the serious, SERIOUS fans, all know that Yoda was horrible. We all know the Force was a more complex thing then just a bacteria in blood cells, we all know the LIMIUAHGA disease spreading among the directorship of the newly created series, but we can't do anything about it. So, let's debate!

Begin your rants and raves, and unleash your anger! Although, anger leads to hate, and hate leads to suffering. Still, Yoda's recent and most utterly frustrating verbage is enough to scream about for hours.

You know what, the day I have to sit here and listen to some fed-up stranger on the internet tell me how serious a Star Wars fan I am or am not and pretend to like it is the day I hang up my keyboard. Piss on this thread.

 

[Ramz]

Viva la Star Wars! We, the serious, SERIOUS fans, all know that Yoda was horrible. We all know the Force was a more complex thing then just a bacteria in blood cells, we all know the LIMIUAHGA disease spreading among the directorship of the newly created series, but we can't do anything about it. So, let's debate!

Begin your rants and raves, and unleash your anger! Although, anger leads to hate, and hate leads to suffering. Still, Yoda's recent and most utterly frustrating verbage is enough to scream about for hours.

Hey, didnt the creator of star wars make all the new movies as well as the old ones?

Ya, he did.

Apperently you all "know" nothing

 

[Ramz]

Don’t want to sound like a huge ass or anything, but honestly, it seems to me that you actually just like select things in star wars, and you just dislike alot of where it’s going. That doesn’t make you a "true fan" (wouldnt a true fan follow whatever the Lucas preaches?) and everyone else lesser then you, it makes you a normal dude, who doesn’t like what was done with a franchise that you once loved.

 

[Solaar]

But wouldn't 'true fans' stick to the ideals of the original series? Instead of the bollocks being spouted about 'Midichloreans'?

Isn't that stuff in swimming pools?

Solaar
the confused