Start with a novel or short stories?

[E_Moon]

Thanks for the advice. I'm currently about 15,000 words in, and have not even introduced all of the characters yet. I think it will end up being 100,000 words or more. I'm finding I like this longer style. I can fully describe the world and have room to develop characters and complex plot lines. I'm just regretting when I'll eventually have to edit the whole thing and make it a coherent piece. In doing this I have found that I am more of an organic writer. I planned out events, characters and settings... but everything is changing as a write. It almost feels as if the plot is being determined as a write. 90% of my notes are becoming irrelevant.

Yes, that is sounding like someone whose natural length is long, especially about the book getting the bit in its teeth and going its own way. That's what happens to me, at least. And certainly, when you're starting out, just writing...and writing...and writing...and letting it flow out as fast as it can...develops a lot of skills in the process.

On the other hand, if you get 42,000 words in and suddenly have an attack of short-stories...write them, too. It's OK to do both, including overlapping shorter works with one longer one. The important thing is to write and write and write some more.

 

[Laer Carroll]

Last year I forced myself to read short fiction and am very glad that I did.

I did the same with the four most popular SF/F magazines, three print and one online. No joy in any of them except for a novella and the first part of a novel.

Then I did the same with a recent 2013 Year’s Best SF collection. After starting more than a dozen stories I literally threw the book across the room to near the waste basket. I want the book destroyed, not passed on to someone.

Now I’m trying with yet another 2013 Best collection by different editors, this time from the library so I wouldn’t have to pay for it. So far the same result.

The stories seem to contain all of what I consider the worst elements of the writing craft. Not a one in the first few pages offered a character or an idea or even a literary style that appealed to me. So I’m forever quits with reading short stories.

Ironically, at the beginning of the year I started writing short stories for the first time ever. I simply had a story idea or a character or a setting which demanded I craft a short work to express them. I’m happy with them. It’s too soon to see if anyone else is happy with them. They’ve all been rejected though I twice got encouragement from editors to submit more work.

 

[suboptimal]

Yikes. I've not read any recent/new short fiction, which I suppose places me squarely in the group of people who are to blame for the shallow market for such stuff. I've been reading older material. Robert Silverberg's short stories are beautifully written and quite inventive, and I would highly recommend him to anyone. Gene Wolfe's stories have a lot to recommend them as well. Jim Ballard also.

My impression, which may be delusional, is that standards in SF are rather low right now, but that's another thread.

 

[KatG]

Thanks for the advice. I'm currently about 15,000 words in, and have not even introduced all of the characters yet. I think it will end up being 100,000 words or more. I'm finding I like this longer style. I can fully describe the world and have room to develop characters and complex plot lines. I'm just regretting when I'll eventually have to edit the whole thing and make it a coherent piece. In doing this I have found that I am more of an organic writer. I planned out events, characters and settings... but everything is changing as a write. It almost feels as if the plot is being determined as a write. 90% of my notes are becoming irrelevant.

I continue to repeat Patricia Wrede's description of her writing process. To wit:

Make an outline. Write one or two chapters. Throw out the first outline and make a new outline. Write the next chapter. Throw out the second outline and make a new outline, and repeat. Sometimes that's the process. You may find that you write and try some short fiction later on. But right now the idea that your brain wants to play with is the longer piece. And remember, revising is the stage where you can get more people to help you out.

 

[Jaigon]

Do you generally edit each chapter as you finish them, or do you wait until you are down the entire story? It seems like doing it all at once is a bloody long time to write without really looking back to seeing if it's consistent... but on the other-hand, if you end up tossing out and changing chapters it could be a waste of effort. Is there a general consensus or does everybody do it their own way?

 

[J.D. Carelli]

I've found that's a question of motivation and momentum. So depending on the person, you'll get different answers. Personally, I don't struggle with those two. What that means for me, then, is that I'll write 30k words, stop and reread, then write the next 30k, rinse and repeat. I tend to write quickly, but I still need to do that so I can keep in tune with my story. In the past, I only did minor edits to description and dialogue. It was a pretty quick process that would only take a day or two to read through what I had and continue on. In my most recent solo project though, I've added chapters and characters and rewritten entire scenes. You'll find this differs from what most writers do, which is write through to the end, making changes without going back. So they'll have a first draft where characters will appear or disappear, for example. They will then go back and fix that in the second draft. I can't do that.

In a shared project, my writing partner and I edit each chapter as we write it. We focus mainly on plot-level edits, because that's what our process requires. We'll then stop after about 30k words and go back through that chunk, looking at character and finer details.

So as you can see, it's a matter of momentum that will vary from person to person. A single writer may also have different processes depending on the project.

 

[Peter Kenson]

Do you generally edit each chapter as you finish them, or do you wait until you are down the entire story? It seems like doing it all at once is a bloody long time to write without really looking back to seeing if it's consistent... but on the other-hand, if you end up tossing out and changing chapters it could be a waste of effort. Is there a general consensus or does everybody do it their own way?

Depends on what you mean by 'edit'. I tidy each chapter as I finish it. My brain won't let me move on to the next chapter until I've done that. But like jasoninchina it's mostly description and dialogue. I've only once (so far) written a complete chapter and thrown the whole thing out as soon as I re-read it. But when the book is finished, that's when the big editing starts. That's when I look for holes in the plot, disappearing characters etc. In parallel with that I will attack the english: have I said things in the best way? have I used too many words? can I get rid of the adverbs?

That's what works for me but everybody's different. Whatever you find works for you - good luck with your writing

 

[E_Moon]

Do you generally edit each chapter as you finish them, or do you wait until you are down the entire story? It seems like doing it all at once is a bloody long time to write without really looking back to seeing if it's consistent... but on the other-hand, if you end up tossing out and changing chapters it could be a waste of effort. Is there a general consensus or does everybody do it their own way?

As others have said, it's different for different writers. Personally, I write straight through (with a few exceptions--if I feel something has gone "squishy" or "lumpy" I will go on, but mentally mark it to look at a couple of days later. Rarely, but occasionally, even right away. One reason is my experience that the books do better with this treatment--if I niggle at them too soon, I don't yet understand where I'm going and some of the "corrections" turn out to be wrongheaded. I have a very strong internal plot-daemon (my term: instinct for plot, may be an easier way to think of it.) I can trust it to work, if I don't bother it when it's working and just get on with the writing. My revision process takes care of the rest--I've written before about that, in several places--it's a three part through-and-through process starting with the "deep logic" of a given work and coming up through the mid-level and finally detail level (where tyops and minor continuity stuff should be, but aren't always, caught.) Other people do better with outline/write, re-outline/re-write, rinse and repeat. Others do better with a very detailed scene-by-scene outline, which they follow. My way works for me because I have an effective plot instinct and I also have the willingness to put in serious work at the revision stage.