The White Luck Warrior Thread

[3rdI]

The White Luck Warrior Thread - SPOILERS

Being that we are only a few weeks away from release I figured it would be a good time to start up conversation on PON/AE (Second Apocalypse).

 

[suciul]

Being that we are only a few weeks away from release I figured it would be a good time to start up conversation on PON/AE (Second Apocalypse).

well, I should get my review copy tomorrow or Tuesday and that's an asap so I will read it next I criticized the first volume as a huge prologue, ok but not on PON level for 2/3's with 1/3 great, so i expect this to be a big improvement.

 

[3rdI]

well, I should get my review copy tomorrow or Tuesday and that's an asap so I will read it next I criticized the first volume as a huge prologue, ok but not on PON level for 2/3's with 1/3 great, so i expect this to be a big improvement.

You know I have mixed feelings about The Aspect-Emperor trilogy so far. It is superbly written and developed and is hands down one of the most unique and engaging stories in Fantasy. However with AE the removal of the Kellhus POV really took quite a bit away from the story for me. Kellhus IS the story. Or at least was the story in PON. I almost wish that Bakker would have ended the story with PON. It was perfect at that point. Kellhus in complete control and utterly dominating all situation and circumstance. Nothing else needed to happen.

In TJE so much was centered around Drusas and Esmenet which I found kind of boring as neither character interests me. Drusas annoys me with his constant whining and moaning about his dreams and his love for Esmi yada yada and Esmenet complains too much. She should be utterly thankful for being the wife of the Aspect-Emperor particularly given that he basically raised her up from a common street prostitute to one of the most powerful individuals on Earwa. But in AE chapter after chapter of Esmenet unhappiness because none of her children feel anything. Blah stop whining they are demigods. They are Dunyain. Conditioned for dominance.

I did find the journey into Cil-Aujas interesting and I think Bakker would have been better served to go back and write a story about the Nonmen and their War against the Inchoroi rather than continue from PON in the manner he has. As much as I am looking forward to reading The White Luck Warrior I expect that I will be left with the same feeling I had reading AE. Without Kellhus as the major POV this story is no longer great. Good certainly but great no longer.

I also miss the heavy philosophical undertones from PON. Part of what I found so engaging about PON was that Bakker was touching on extremely complex concepts and ideas. Thinking man's fantasy. AE has become more a traditional story of epic fantasy.

 

[suciul]

You know I have mixed feelings about The Aspect-Emperor trilogy so far. It is superbly written and developed and is hands down one of the most unique and engaging stories in Fantasy. However with AE the removal of the Kellhus POV really took quite a bit away from the story for me. Kellhus IS the story. Or at least was the story in PON. I almost wish that Bakker would have ended the story with PON. It was perfect at that point. Kellhus in complete control and utterly dominating all situation and circumstance. Nothing else needed to happen.

Here I agree 100% - Kelhus was indeed what made PON stand out imho too and that was part of the mild disappointment for me in the first book here; though I also disliked the essential prologue-like quality where few things happen and the stage is set except in Acha's thread which advanced well.

edit; the book just arrived as expected and it looks really good - it is also almost 600 pages at least the arc i got - though sadly today it is a heavy work day for me so it's likely I will get to it only tomorrow evening at the earliest

 

[thirstyVan]

AE has become more a traditional story of epic fantasy.

I haven't read AE yet, so I actually have no idea if what you say is correct. But I read Bakker's blog, and can say that this wouldn't really surprise me. He's stated several times that while popular with many people, PON is not a big seller. I believe he claimed, or maybe was told, it is too dense for most readers. If he is angling for a more traditional epic, well, you can't really blame the guy. He's written 7 or 8 books and (I think) he isn't a huge seller. I loved PON (just started rereading it today, actually), but if he's trying to write something that will appeal to the masses a little more, it only makes sense. Dude's gotta eat, or whatever

 

[Finagle]

I dont think continuing with Khellus as a POV character would of been a good idea. Bakker has made Khelllus such a powerful force in the new trilogy he is almost to far removed from mortal understanding. Also by omitting Khellus POV it adds some mystery to Khellus' actual motives and how much he knows of Achamian's plans. Maybe Achamian is being manipulated by Khellus' the whole time?

I really liked the Judging Eye. A lot. The Scalpoi journey through Cil-Aujas led by the insane Incariol was just jaw dropping. I also think Kelmomas' POV's are just brilliant in a very unsettling way. I can see him playing major role in the future books.

 

[pat5150]

Scott told me that Kellhus wouldn't return as a POV character in this series.

As for the one following The Aspect-Emperor, I guess we'll have to wait and see...

Patrick

 

[3rdI]

Scott told me that Kellhus wouldn't return as a POV character in this series.

As for the one following The Aspect-Emperor, I guess we'll have to wait and see...

Patrick

Well that sucks on every conceivable level.

Oh well Bakker still rocks and even a Kellhus-less POV in AE will still be better than 98.75 percent of everything else that is out there.

Did you get a chance to read the pm I sent about the blog? Hopefully that will clear things up.

 

[Spears&Buckler]

Although I do miss the Kellhus POV's greatly, I still loved The Judging Eye and am eagerly anticipating The White Luck Warrior. Dude can write his face off. I'll read every word he publishes. I even loved his crime novels and I'm not into that genre at all.

But I am a little disappointed to hear that we won't see a Kellhus POV in The Aspect Emperor.

 

[3rdI]

Dude can write his face off. I'll read every word he publishes.

LOL We really need to make Scott a t-shirt that says that.

R. Scott Bakker on the front in bold...

On the back a picture of a pen writing on a face and underneath...

Will write your bleeping face off!

 

[Ash]

I dont really miss Kelhus's pov. I find him so repugnant, to my mind his like an adult abusing children, in that all the others are so far beneath him in terms of ability and intellect, he can seemingly get anything he wants. I hope he finds that there is allways someone smarter around the corner.

 

[mjolnir]

3rdI wrote:
In TJE so much was centered around Drusas and Esmenet which I found kind of boring as neither character interests me. Drusas annoys me with his constant whining and moaning about his dreams and his love for Esmi yada yada and Esmenet complains too much. She should be utterly thankful for being the wife of the Aspect-Emperor particularly given that he basically raised her up from a common street prostitute to one of the most powerful individuals on Earwa. But in AE chapter after chapter of Esmenet unhappiness because none of her children feel anything. Blah stop whining they are demigods. They are Dunyain. Conditioned for dominance.

Wo wo wo, dude. I am sorry but this frightens me. Esmenet should be thankful? How so? Because she's the wife and property of quite possibly the most emotionally domineering and manipulative being ever to walk Earwa ever? Because she's "privileged" to have borne a group of children who are unwilling and/or find it very difficult to relate to her as their mother because they are A: genius-level uberfolk beyond mortal ken and/or B: sociopaths? Oh, and their father views them -- and her -- as resources to be employed for the enacting of his vital but entirely self-imposed plan for Earwa's future. Ought she be greatful for this? Esmenet's story isn't about being some sort of vessel for divine greatness or crap of that nature; it's about being trapped and getting by as best you can, in the face of forces that bend the mortal mind.

 

[Spears&Buckler]

LOL We really need to make Scott a t-shirt that says that.

R. Scott Bakker on the front in bold...

On the back a picture of a pen writing on a face and underneath...

Will write your bleeping face off!

I love it! The face on the back needs to have his infamous Mullet too.

 

[3rdI]

3rdI wrote:
In TJE so much was centered around Drusas and Esmenet which I found kind of boring as neither character interests me. Drusas annoys me with his constant whining and moaning about his dreams and his love for Esmi yada yada and Esmenet complains too much. She should be utterly thankful for being the wife of the Aspect-Emperor particularly given that he basically raised her up from a common street prostitute to one of the most powerful individuals on Earwa. But in AE chapter after chapter of Esmenet unhappiness because none of her children feel anything. Blah stop whining they are demigods. They are Dunyain. Conditioned for dominance.

Wo wo wo, dude. I am sorry but this frightens me. Esmenet should be thankful? How so? Because she's the wife and property of quite possibly the most emotionally domineering and manipulative being ever to walk Earwa ever? Because she's "privileged" to have borne a group of children who are unwilling and/or find it very difficult to relate to her as their mother because they are A: genius-level uberfolk beyond mortal ken and/or B: sociopaths? Oh, and their father views them -- and her -- as resources to be employed for the enacting of his vital but entirely self-imposed plan for Earwa's future. Ought she be greatful for this? Esmenet's story isn't about being some sort of vessel for divine greatness or crap of that nature; it's about being trapped and getting by as best you can, in the face of forces that bend the mortal mind.

Dude just use the

tag.

As for your point you make the mistake of assuming that I care about Esmenet at all. Quite frankly I don't. Kellhus makes the rules...for everyone. If not for Kellhus, Esmenet would be wandering the streets looking for coin. He made her into more than she was. She should be thankful and stop complaining.

When Kellhus says jump everyone need quickly ask how high? Or with Gnostic fury and Dunyain Genius they go bye bye!

Its good to be the Aspect-Emperor

 

[Spears&Buckler]

Not only does Kellhus become more, but he also helps others to become more.

When it suits him.

He's a great character.

 

[3rdI]

Not only does Kellhus become more, but he also helps others to become more.

When it suits him.

He's a great character.

Word. When you are the man you are the man. That is just the way the cookie crumbles.

 

[Ash]

I agree he is a great character, but admire him? like him? Are you kidding ? Hes the epitome of manipulation and the ends justify the means.

 

[3rdI]

I agree he is a great character, but admire him? like him? Are you kidding ? Hes the epitome of manipulation and the ends justify the means.

Of course I like his character. One of my favorite characters of all time. I love watching him play puppet master. He doesn't just manipulate he dominates. Sometimes the ends do justify the means...particularly when you are quite frankly superior to everyone else. On Earwa it's Kellhus's world, everyone else is just living in it.

 

[Ash]

Wow. Just goes to show how different peoples perspectives are.

 

[sdelu]

I've thought about picking up the second series, but considering I didn't much like the end of the first one (top of the list: I wanted Kellhus's dad to whoop on him some) I've shied away. But if there is less philosophizing (and less Kellhus--I'm not bothered by him, just tired of the philosophy attached to him) going on then I might read it after all. By the end of TTT I felt like I was reading a philosophic dissertation (hyperbole, but you get the point).