Themes

[mistri]

Originally posted by Pluvious


I look at it as aiming high. Yes, there are risks. If you don't think you can do it then yes, you probably shouldn't try.

*ahem* It's not that I don't try, it's that I have different ways of writing to you.

You may not realise it but some of your posts come across as being rather patronising. While the above is not a direct insult, and may not be meant in any negative way, it does suggest that those who don't think up themes in advance, aren't aiming high with their fiction, and don't think themselves capable of great work. I am, but I prefer other ways to try for it than you.

Please think about the tone in which your messages come across.

 

[IaNo]

mistri: I agree completely with what you say. I think of my works as being of high quality; they look into the meaning of life and humanity and they are entertaining.

Pluvious, you said, "If you let a theme simply happen then you aren't putting any thought into it beforehand. And its not really a good idea to think too much while you are writing."

What I have to say to that is this: If you think up a theme before hand just for the book you are writing at the time then you probablly haven't thought that much about the theme before hand. I include themes that I have pondered my whole life and in that way I don't have to set them up, they just come naturally out of my writing. As for not thinking while you are writing, what the hell are you talking about? That doesn't sound like such good advise to me. I think I know what you mean, but still, thinking is very important while writing, you just have to be thinking about the right thing, the task at hand, and not let your mind wander into the currently unrelated things.

BTW, for twelve: I completely agree, I also need to have an outline to work with before writing or my stuff comes out like crap. I never meant to imply that I just write as I go along and haven't thought out my work. To me, personally, themes do not have to go into my outline. They inherently go with the plot and action in my book. Dialogue also stays out of my outline except for maybe a few catch phrases that I happen to think of while I'm making the outline that I feel the urge to write down.

It's all just a matter of prewriting taste, and I assume that all of us are reaching toward the same goal -- a good story. It doesn't matter how it is prepared. There are as many ways to prepare a book as there are authors out there (except for those that went to uncreative seminars to learn formula writing, but I don't think that's any of you!) I encourage the differences.

 

[Pluvious]

Oh man, I just erased a long post!

Ah, basically what I said was that my post was general and not aimed at you Mistri. But, I can see that it was a bit insulting and I apologize for that.

This ticks me off, writing things over again.

I also talked about my preference for non-social themes. I'm kind of odd and I don't expect people to agree with me anymore but I like to think beyond the constraints of laws, culture, and the rest. Society changes, and for me I prefer analyzing aspects of life and humanity that are universal (if there are any). And if you can incorporate this into a story involving people then that really excites me.

It doesn't mean I'm right, I'm still evaluating the importance of society as matter of fact. I kind of view themes as the writer's tool in defining the meaning of life. And when I said that you should think about a theme before you write about it I suppose I meant if you want to say something fresh about the meaning of life you should have a fresh view of that meaning. That's why I said "aiming high".

Normally I say "this is what I believe". But, in my last post I failed to do that. That was my mistake.

Then again, maybe I spend all my time thinking about impractical subjects in order to compensate for my inability to gain acceptance in society? Its a good question anyway...

 

[IaNo]

Originally posted by Pluvious


Then again, maybe I spend all my time thinking about impractical subjects in order to compensate for my inability to gain acceptance in society?

Yeah, I might have that problem too. I also tend to ponder life's bigger questions too much. At least we try to include it in our writing, even if nobody ever accepts us. Keep in mind that a fresh view does not have to be one that you recently created. You could have had it for 20 years now but it's still fresh because other people don't have it yet and it's just as new to them as when you thought of it (since we're not already published).

I also hate having to rewrite a short version of a long post I just lost. It's one of the most frustrating things.

 

[Singleton]

I just finished a story in fact, where the point, theme, and major plot points didn't come to me untill AFTER I had brought the events to a close, and tried to explain the story to a friend.

I started typing out my description of what the story meant, and realized that I had included NONE of that in my story. So I went back through, and voila, story is now twice as long.

I usually just start with a concept that I want to examine or create, then flesh it out with a character and some circumstances. The rest just happens, until I get to the "end." From there I can rewrite the story to what I originally set out to do.

As far as themes are concerned, I'd say they make the foundation of a story. You really can't write something that reflects ideas other than your own, unless you really struggle at it. And you shouldn't have to struggle at it.

 

[choppy]

Often I find that a theme is present in my stories whether I put one there intentionally or not.

I think that when presenting any kind of a conflict, you can't help but place your own biases and beliefs into the text, no matter how objective you try to be.

For example, I have very stong anti-drug sentiments that are strongly influenced by my research and personal experience. As a result anything that I write that deals with a character encountering drugs will reflect these sentiments. The story that I wrote for the last short story contest at this site has a theme that concentrates on social classes and access to technology, but one of the characters is a drug addict. As a result there's an inhernt message - drugs are bad - that came out that wasn't really my intention.

Usually I try to incorporate the my themes consciously, but just as the plot changes between initial outline and final copy, so does the theme.

 

[Pluvious]

Originally posted by Singleton
As far as themes are concerned, I'd say they make the foundation of a story. You really can't write something that reflects ideas other than your own, unless you really struggle at it. And you shouldn't have to struggle at it.

Well, I like to have a clear view of what I'm trying to say before I start writing. I don't want to say the same thing over and over again in ever thing I write. I only write what I believe but some of my beliefs are not even that clear to me. I have to struggle to decipher them.

I was reading some writing magazine and I came upon an editor's explanation of the differences between literary and mainstream fiction. One of the differences regarded theme. He stated that in most cases literary themes center around a timeless, complex theme, while mainstream's theme is very obvious.

Although the subject matter in most literary work does not always interest me, I do enjoy more complex and universal themes. And this is the way I intend to write as well.

 

[Brian G Turner]

I agree that themes are essential and also that they should not be the foundation of a story unless you are writing a fable.

Not at all - though I agree with your later posts, so I figure this is a communication issue - ie, what is a "theme" as compared to a "point", etc.

Something *all* aspiring authors (apparently) need to keep in mind is that when approaching agents you will likely need a premise. So far as I've read, anyway. Certainly something to bear in mind along with that 1 sentence synopsis.

 

[IaNo]

I, Brian. I understand what you're saying about a "theme" as compared to a "point." What I meant by my statement that a theme should not be the foundation of a story unless you're writing a fable was more in the way the theme is presented. Some authors, most bad ones, but still many good ones, tend to work to hard at actually expressing the theme of their book in words and try to make it very clear what you are supposed to get out of it. In that way it reminds me of a fable in which its whole purpose is to teach you the moral of the story. I want the story to have many themes that intertwine and are more complex than an expository sentece or two. I want something that can't be exactly stated or concluded but it subconsciously pushes the reader in that direction as the events in the story unfold.

But this is all stuff for the query letter. That's the easy part. You have to write a good book first.