Verisimilitude/Real World

[Hereford Eye]

This problem confronts me almost every time I read a good fantasy or sf book: bodily functions.

The standard approach is to ignore them. I suspect folk see this as a useful tactic for keeping the the text clean and pure, avoiding the daily distractions. For the most part I can accept this strategy but, all too often, it presents a flaw in the story's logic. The most egregious example I know of is The Ill-Made Mute by Celia Dart-Thornton wherein a young woman has grown up as a servant in a castle without ever discovering herself to be or being discovered as a girl. Compounding the problem, the book focuses on the evenings where the servants gather to chat, flirt, and tell raucous tales yet the heroine remains oblivious to her sex. This sets up a great discovery scene but, I could not continue as the whole situation was so patently unreal.

Bodily functions cannot be made to disappear. If you're on a quest in the wilderness, it will not be long before you have to tend the needs. If you're attempting to hide your sex, how do you manage to get off by yourself to protect your secret? The women will probably all go at the same time as will the men. Whichever side you've adopted will get curious as to why you don't accompany them. If you're a woman, you have another problem that will occur eventually and tending to that one is even more problematic than simple waste elimination. If you do not hide the traces, the bad guys have that much easier a task in hunting you down. Modesty, itself, is a problem since it will separate the groups. If the bad guys are in the area then your safety is compromised; see Butler's The Parable of the Sower.
And, it seems, to me, acknowledging the needs will, over time, serve to highlight sexual differences making Platonic relationships tenuous at best. Sex is a bodily function and a need; see Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs which will tell you that while survival is paramount, if you think you're safe for a while, sex is going to rear its beautiful self.

On the plus side, if you include bodily functions in your novel, you stand a good chance of being banned from your local library as our children are not aware they exist and must be kept that way. This ought to incease your sales dramatically.

 

[StephenPorter]

You might want to try Stephen King's Dark Tower books, then. He does mention those bodily functions from time to time, which kinda surprised me simply because I'm so used to not reading about it.

Tamora Pierce's Song of the Lioness quartet has a girl disguising herself as a boy, and briefly deals with how she disguises herself and deals with the guys.

I've also had some quandaries about one of my own characters. She's not hiding her gender or anything, but she is rather paranoid and leaves her armor on all the time. It has led me to wonder just how she goes about dealing with daily necessities. I'm not really sure how to approach it yet.

As a side note since I've worked at a local library, bodily functions won't get you banned from local libraries, just school libraries. It's parents that go insane about those things. Librarians couldn't care less. That and getting your book banned is probably the best thing you can do for your career. People will want to read your book to find out why it was was banned.

 

[KatG]

Bodily functions come up, but not often and usually not in detail. I have yet to run into a contemporary fantasy detective heroine who is having her period when she's dealing with a crisis, but there may be some. But the actual things that writers tend to forget about that are even more common (and less perhaps unappealing to read about) than peeing are sleep, food, and the drinking of alcohol.

Writers will note sleep from time to time, and if dreams play a role in the plot, a character will sleep. But they don't sleep that often. I can't count how many authors I've had to remind to have their character have a chance to sleep or eat some food after running around for a couple of days, with their vitality and stamina being superhuman in face of great action. Sometimes a character will be in great distress and so not eat much and have no other side effects except to appear gaunt. For alcohol (and occasionally coffee,) it's the opposite -- they'll have characters drink and drink in order for them to have a bit of business in a scene. One client I had to point out had her character drink about six glasses of wine and should therefore be plastered.

In film and t.v., characters are more likely to start to drink something but never actually drink it and to sleep because it seems to be a good transition device. For me, when contemporary characters just go to sleep or are in bed talking and then just go to bed, I can't help wondering, aren't you going to go pee and brush your teeth, buddy? It's distracting, but it's several minutes of time they don't want to use. In books, I generally assumed that they went and the author just didn't tell me.

For someone hiding gender, especially when traveling, then it's an issue that should get a mention. For someone who doesn't know what gender they are, then it's a matter of reference points available to the person, I suppose.

 

[Brainsnaffler]

I agree with KatG. The use of bodily functions is normall taken out of stories because they don't usually impact on the plot, and therefore can slow down the pace of the story and throw in words that aren't needed.

Having said that, I don't especially mind reading about bodily functions because they do make the character more realistic and believable. I would see nothing wrong with them carrying out those functions whilst furthing the plot. For example, detectives could chew over the facts with their partners whilst they chew over their food, or have a drink (Inspector Morse), or guys could have a conversation about a plot point against the urinals at work (not in the cubicles, because that would be weird for guys).

It's personal preference, but where appropriate, I think it's worthwhile putting into your stories. The only real time I'd be concerned about my work being banned from library's is if it's aimed to be childrens fiction.

 

[SilentDan]

Ah, Verisimilitude... D&D is all for it, but for some reason people don't want it in books. You can't put a gun in a room and not have it fired... or, at least, handled. It can probably be talked about, looked at, thought about. But it can't be there as decoration, even if it's a defining part of a character (ie it's sole purpose can't be "to show character"). You absolutely HAVE to make it part of the story, somehow. That might be more for short stories than for novels, but still.

I can't count the number of times people have told me "This doesn't contribute to the story, cut it". Mostly because I can't remember, but it's been a few. Are readers too demanding of "only including things that have a purpose" these days? Or is that just my local writing group?

 

[Edward M. Grant]

Are readers too demanding of "only including things that have a purpose" these days? Or is that just my local writing group?

I have about 3,000 e-books in my Kindle account. As a reader, I don't have time for sixty page digressions on Elvish folk-dancing.

Other than the time issue, I suspect a lot of readers find it confusing. I was critiquing a short story a couple of weeks ago and the writer introduced a character by name, so I assumed they'd be important. Then a few paragraphs later they disappeared and were never seen again. Through the rest of the story I was expecting them to turn up and they didn't.

And I'm not sure it's a modern thing. I'm trying to imagine two cave-men sitting around a fire, one telling the other a story, and filling it with irrelevant details that will never be important again. I'm guessing he would have rapidly left the gene pool with a big, rock-shaped dent in the back of his head.

 

[N. E. White]

I'm guessing he would have rapidly left the gene pool with a big, rock-shaped dent in the back of his head.

Oh, dear, I'd be taken out. That's the best incentive for cutting out unnecessary veribage as I'll ever get. Thanks!

And I agree, but the story example HE gave would necessitate an explanation, methinks. But since I haven't read it, I'm not sure. I guess, the author has to convince the reader that her bodily functions were well hidden, and therefore do not impact the story's plot?

 

[Sam James]

No thread is complete without bringing Martin into it.

There was a similar situation to the second one described with Ayra hiding her sex from the others travelling to to wall. I think Martin handled it well by describing how difficult it was to go with the others around and how it was that fact that first aroused suspicions.

Another time I remember them coming into play is during a marriage ceremony when Tyrion is complaining about how badly he needs to go, finishing with the line. 'Sometimes taking a piss feels as good as being in a women.' Which I found hilarious.

Another famous moment is when Tywin is on the privvy.

So yeah, Martin includes bodily functions to good effect.

I also love to talk about Erikson.

In the second Malazan book, Deadhouse gates, the main character Dukier gets a promise of impulse intercourse from a female soldier if they were to make it through the battle alive, moments before the battle begins whereupon he pisses himself at the first signs of fighting. Perhaps this is what you are looking for HE?

Re: KatG's thoughts.

Could they really include a period as a plot device without it feeling contrived to the reader?

Let's put this into a secondary world setting and imagine a champion female swordswoman in battle. If her period doesn't cause her to fail in someway its inclusion does not seem necessary. On the other hand if she was to fail because she happened to be on her period, it would feel very contrived to me. Maybe I just can't think of a way to use it effectively. I'm open to ideas.

 

[Brainsnaffler]

But it can't be there as decoration, even if it's a defining part of a character (ie it's sole purpose can't be "to show character")

I think a lot of readers would be fine with the writer putting stuff in the description to show character. It just depends how long they go on for, and where in the story it's placed.

There needs to be some world exposition near the start of the story to let the reader know just what kind of rules they are dealing with.

To take the gun example: I would think it was ok to explain that there is a gun in the room when we first encounter the room. What wouldn't be ok is to describe the room, and then have the characters have a dialogue, and you describe them looking around at the room, glancing at the gun and then describing the gun and its origins.

 

[Andrew LH]

Let's put this into a secondary world setting and imagine a champion female swordswoman in battle. If her period doesn't cause her to fail in someway its inclusion does not seem necessary. On the other hand if she was to fail because she happened to be on her period, it would feel very contrived to me. Maybe I just can't think of a way to use it effectively. I'm open to ideas.

I don't see why it need reflect or connect to failure, and (although I'm not about to write it) linking reproductive blood to bloody battle seems like a pretty striking concept. There is no demand that anyone other than the character herself be aware of her state, for a start, as blood soaks everyone; plus, in a world in which women fighting is convention, I expect awareness of the general facts of life in that context would be convention too (which probably includes ours).

Iain Banks did the disguised gender thing (in "one of his books", I'll say, as it turns out to be a key feature of the story). The character's sense of (and actual) isolation was vital tothis working though, and the person it was really being hidden from was the reader.

 

[Sam James]

I don't see why it need reflect or connect to failure.

I was thinking of using it soley as a plot device when I made the connection it must lead to a failure. (As the only alternative is it leading to success in some part.) (Note- I guess the idea that plot devices leading to only success or failure could be up for debate.)

Yes, using it for theme and symbolism is an interesting idea like you suggested. However, I, like you, am not about to write such a thing. Perhaps why that is would be an interesting question. Is it breaking some taboo or drawing attention to itself in an unwanted way? Food for thought.

 

[Arkeus]

Yes, using it for theme and symbolism is an interesting idea like you suggested. However, I, like you, am not about to write such a thing. Perhaps why that is would be an interesting question. Is it breaking some taboo or drawing attention to itself in an unwanted way? Food for thought.

I don't see why it would, but OTOH i am a bit surprised by people saying that cutting everything that's not important to the plot is a good thing. Maybe i just have sub-optimal taste in books, but unecessary details that flesh out the world as well as flesh out the character- make them seem more alive- is a good thing in my mind.

As for periods, it usually come up offhandedly when it does, E.G in the middle of a detective heroin book while trying to fit clues together, she has a moment of relief as she isn't pregnant, etc. I find it best when it's in the middle of a paragraph about something else, but....

 

[Laer Carroll]

I ... am a bit surprised by people saying that cutting everything that's not important to the plot is a good thing... Unecessary details that flesh out the world as well as flesh out the character- make them seem more alive- is a good thing in my mind.

Then the details of the setting ARE necessary. But I agree that some people get a bit too religious about cutting.

As for me, I simply assume that people have toilet functions even though they are not mentioned. A lot of stuff need not be mentioned, such as that the characters breathe and have a heart beat.

A fact to keep in mind is that there are also levels of detail, not just two: completely necessary or completely unnecessary. The way I handle is like this.

"Sarah blinked the sleep out of her eyes. Was that coffee she smelled or wishful thinking? She made a quick trip to the bathroom, pulled on sweats, and hurried downstairs."

MADE A QUICK TRIP TO THE BATHROOM is only seven words. PULLED ON SWEATS even shorter. Because they are only mildly important they get mildly sized text. But they are necessary to my mind so are included in the story.

 

[SilentDan]

Don't confuse the reader, don't talk down to the reader; follow the rules, break the rules. I guess it's really up to you what you include and how. You and the editor.

 

[KatG]

but for some reason people don't want it in books.

Sure they do. Some people are obsessed with it. Others aren't particularly concerned. And there's also the debates about what sort of things are "real" or not real. I don't, for instance, find noir plots all that realistic as it is more romantic and over intensified, but there are oodles of people who feel they are the essence of grim realism. So making something "real" doesn't really assist you except if it fulfills some need you have for the story, but that need isn't always advancing plot. It could be character development, thematic symbolism, setting establishing, stylistic show, etc.

Or is that just my local writing group?

Your writing group has personal preferences just like any other group of readers. If you write something that doesn't fit their preferences, they may be bored and they may find it unnecessary thereby. But it may actually be necessary for the story or just a really good piece of writing that will enhance many readers' experience of the story. So when there's a complaint, it's best to dig deeper: why do you feel that part is unnecessary to the story, etc. Pretend you're a therapist. That way you get the maximum useful feedback and you can decide which bits are helpful.

As a reader, I don't have time for sixty page digressions on Elvish folk-dancing.

Other readers do and get miffed if the material on Elvish folk-dancing, which they feel is quite necessary to create a real Elvish society convincingly and give the story authenticity, is not there. These are stylistic preferences. (Also, if you've got 3,000 books on your e-reader, I suspect you're more tolerant about types of writing styles than you are indicating.) That doesn't mean that the Elvish folk dancing part might not need to be cut down but it becomes an issue of balancing parts of the narrative and the writer's goals and own preferences. Do I feel that Martin and Jordan spend far too much time on heraldry and geneaology? Yes, for me, but to others it's important as part of the epic. (Plus they are both sneaky about sticking symbolic clues in those things.)

Could they really include a period as a plot device without it feeling contrived to the reader?

Given that women have them once a month for most of their adult lives, I think it wouldn't seem particularly out of left field. It's about as real as you get, and certainly more real than lots of characters being really good at swordfighting. A character having her period might not necessarily be a plot device per se, but it probably would have some minor role. Periods do come up in some coming of age SFF novels but they are a female thing and so they are rare.

Let's put this into a secondary world setting and imagine a champion female swordswoman in battle. If her period doesn't cause her to fail in someway its inclusion does not seem necessary. On the other hand if she was to fail because she happened to be on her period, it would feel very contrived to me. Maybe I just can't think of a way to use it effectively. I'm open to ideas.

Eating doesn't cause her to fail in someway either and yet you aren't considering eating unnecessary. A period is unlikely to make a warrior succeed or fail. It's simply part of who she is like peeing and breathing. It might cause a minor inconvenience. It might cause trash talking from her male compatriots. She might do a small religious ritual each time she has it. And she might get real concerned if she misses her period. (Pregnancy scares do tend to get a small mention of periods in stories.) Using something like a period is usually more about character than plot. How she handles the period (because women handle it differently under different circumstances,) is part of character building. How others react to its presence may also be part of world and character building.

If you do write a story in which the woman fails at warrioring because of her period, bear in mind that our culture has a sexist stereotype that women can't do things because they have periods and so the reaction to the story may be different than you were expecting. That being said, I'm not saying don't write it, but be aware of the cultural baggage that comes with that idea and figure out how you're going to present your idea.

What wouldn't be ok is to describe the room, and then have the characters have a dialogue, and you describe them looking around at the room, glancing at the gun and then describing the gun and its origins.

It would be okay if you want to confuse the readers about it. Readers look for clues. So if you do emphasize the gun, instead of just mention there are guns mounted on the wall, then readers would expect the gun to factor in some way. Which may be exactly what you want them to think and then you disappoint them. It's a red herring and it's not used just for mysteries. Sometimes you are just providing cultural background. That's not a waste of time. Of course, if you just list the contents of the room like a police report, it might seem a little boring.

Don't confuse the reader, don't talk down to the reader; follow the rules, break the rules. I guess it's really up to you what you include and how. You and the editor.

As we know, there is not just one reader. Some readers will be confused. You may be trying to get as many as possible of them confused. "Talking down" to the reader for me is one of those nebulous things that requires an hour's debate over what "talking down" consists of. There aren't any rules so they don't factor into it. If you are trying to publish a short story, then a magazine or anthology editor will be part of the decision making, because they decide what they want the overall magazine or anthology to sound like. But with the book editor, you decide, the editor just makes suggestions.

For anything you are thinking of doing in a story, any words you are thinking of using, there are always hundreds of other options you could use instead. None of them are "right" or "wrong." They're your tools and choices. It's you figuring out what you want to say and then how to say it effectively for the effects that you want to attempt. Which could include confusion, obscurity, oblique symbolism, tons of description, etc.

My main suggestion is read outside your comfort zone in as much diversity as you can manage and study everything for what's useful to you.