What do you consider to be fantasy?

[Wulfa_Jones]

What do you consider to be fantasy? Does fantasy need to have certain themes and characteristics for you to consider it as fantasy?

Why do you think novels by the likes of Susanna Clarke’s Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell and the adult versions of Harry Potter and His Dark Materials appear in the general fiction section of (most) bookshops and not in the fantasy sections? Is it marketing by the publishers because they fear the books will not have the same mass appeal if they are stuck in the genre sections?

Also are novels by the likes of Walter Moers and J G Ballard to be considered as fantasy just because they are fantastical?

 

[wapa]

Fantasy for me is basically something that involves and generally centres on the impossible. Fantasy says "This can't happen, but if it could...". Science fiction is more "This could happen, just not now;" which is why I think of alternate history as science fiction.

As for seeing fantasy in the General Fiction category...yeah, I was a little miffed when I saw Strange & Norrel there (near Oryx and Crake and a run of Discworld with crap American covers). But I already knew it was fantasy, so it was only my lack of money that stopped me buying it.

Honestly I was more annoyed at the Discworld covers.

 

[Gary Wassner]

Are you saying that you were annoyed because you saw a fantasy title in the general fiction section? That's interesting. Why? I'm really curious. Is it because you feel that fantasy needs to be in its own section so that it's easier to find, or because it is fantasy and it's just a category of its own?

Fantasy is different. I agree, it's the depiction of the impossible, the things we can only dream about and 'fantasize' about, but can never become reality. In fantasy, anything is possible and it doesn't need an explanation as long as it's consistent and well written. We expect the impossible and we crave that power that it bestows upon us. Fantasy is more than simply fantastic. It's totally inexplicable and it doesn't apologize for that.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

In the stores around here, Jonathan Strange was originally displayed near the door where all the new books they want to draw attention to go. Then it moved to an endcap by the SF and Fantasy section (where it was still quite visible), and the last time I was book-shopping it had moved in with the other genre titles. But there may also be copies with the mainstream literature, for all I know.

Harry Potter has a large display in the children's section, and smaller displays on tables and other fixtures in major traffic areas throughout the store.

When the LOTR movies were still coming out, everything by and about Tolkien (or the films) appeared on multiple displays, too.

At least in this area, the larger booksellers seem to be initially interested in putting these books where they will be seen, rather than categorizing them. That comes later.

 

[wapa]

Are you saying that you were annoyed because you saw a fantasy title in the general fiction section? That's interesting. Why? I'm really curious. Is it because you feel that fantasy needs to be in its own section so that it's easier to find, or because it is fantasy and it's just a category of its own?

I was annoyed because of the whole "if it's good it's not fantasy" attitude I've come across every so often, really. For some reason I made that connection.

Honestly, it's just an ease-of-finding thing. But now I think about it I probably would have read more widely as a teenager if the books weren't all grouped together by genre. Hmm.

 

[KatG]

Fantasy are stories of imagined realities which involve magic, the paranormal and/or the unexplained fantastic. This is obviously a wide range of material.

The sf-f sections of bookstores are not meant to house every fantasy novel available in the market. It is a special display section meant to showcase SFF fiction produced by SFF genre publishers and/or specifically meant for the genres' fan audience.

Clarke's book is published by a non-genre publisher and is meant for a wide mainstream audience. It is also a mainstream bestseller. Therefore, it will be placed in general fiction and in special store displays, such as the front of the store displays used to sell top name fiction. That sff fans are so aware of Clarke's book comes from the fact that Clarke and her publishers have also tried very hard to market the work directly to sff fans, which is a relatively recent development, and a very nice one.

Margaret Atwood writes many books that are not sf. Therefore, her work cannot all be placed in the sff section. Since she is also a mainstream bestseller with only a small sff fan following, for booksellers it makes more sense to place all her works in general fiction and in special bestseller displays.

None of this has anything to do with the definition of fantasy fiction, which is not defined by where things are placed in a bookstore. However, I find your complaint refreshing, wapa, since so many fans seem to want to get rid of the sff sections altogether, and most sff genre writers with it, and here you are wanting to put more in it.

 

[Evil Agent]

For me, it's only Fantasy if it contains these three things:

1. A magic sword
2. A Dark Lord
3. An evil horde!



Just kidding... But I do think it needs to have factors that set it apart from ordinary fiction... such as a made up world, or some form of magic, or a medieval type setting, etc.

 

[Ealdric]

... such as a made up world, or some form of magic, or a medieval type setting, etc.

That about sums it up for me, also.

 

[Erfael]

..... or a medieval type setting, etc.

GAH!!!! I expected better from you, Evil.......*sighs*

 

[Evil Agent]

I was just listing medieval settings as one possibility... By some type of made up world, or some form of magic, I am referring to other types of stories, say the Dark Tower by Stephen King, which sometimes take place in a modern urban setting... but I still think of them as Fantasy. Or Gormenghast, which I'd consider Fantasy, simply because the world/castle was made up... or Harry Potter because despite taking place in the real world during modern times, it has a system of magic.

 

[Murrin]

It can be very hard to define genre boundaries - for example horror is often very fantastic in nature, and the line between fantasy and sci-fi is almost as blurred.
Sometimes you see fantasy novels in which the fantastical aspects are irrelevant - books that could have been general fiction with very little alteration to plot or characters. Others are so surreal you couldn't class them as anything but fantasy. With the frequency at which these boundaries are crossed between novels supposedly within one genre or another, the lines between them seem to be illusory. For the most part, it's simply a way to organise books for our convenience.


The most obvious thing that would classify a 'fantasy' novel, of course, is 'fantastic' content:

# Quaint or strange in form, conception, or appearance.
#
1. Unrestrainedly fanciful; extravagant.
2. Bizarre, as in form or appearance; strange.
3. Based on or existing only in fantasy; unreal.

But this is quite ambiguous.

 

[Jack]

What do you consider to be fantasy?

dragonzzzzzz.

 

[kittekat3584]

dragonzzzzzz.

Hi my name is kittekat3584, I belive that a fantasy is a world in which you can escape reality. I belive it is a world that you create from your own mind and you can visit at any time you wish. A fantasy is something that comes from within your own heart and desires. I would appreciate it if you would resond and tell me what you think of what i think a fantasy is.

Waiting for your responce, Your kittekat3584

 

[owleye]

i think fantasy is a place that is diffrent to this world wheather it is dragons or magic and it is also a place where you can go to be somewhere else

 

[phil_geo]

Yeah I don't buy simply 'fantastic content' or parnormal defining the fantasy category, at least for me. Foir example, Dean Koontz novels, with his super-intelligent dogs and psychic people, aren't fantasy in a literary meaning as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Miller]

Hmm, yet to me the Dark Tower series would be fiction. Although, if he had been carrying a sword and not a gun, then I guess it could be fantasy. Swords and midieval settings definately have a fantasy type genre about them in any book, unless it's an actual historical fiction I find. Somehow the line between the two gets fuzzy- fiction and fantasy I mean. Which I find somewhat annoying really. What about a book section called Hard Fiction? Or something like that?

 

[Erfael]

Hmm, yet to me the Dark Tower series would be fiction. Although, if he had been carrying a sword and not a gun, then I guess it could be fantasy. Swords and midieval settings definately have a fantasy type genre about them in any book, unless it's an actual historical fiction I find.

So let me get this straight....since Roland carries a gun, it's just fiction. But if he were to have a sword, it would be fantasy? Just the presence of a stick of metal with a sharp edge on it changes it from plain old everyday fiction to something fantastic? That's very....interesting.

So how about something like, say, American Gods, which is neither medieval nor does it contain swords? Can't be fantasy? The Last Unicorn, no swords or medieval setting there. Geepers, I've been way off for years now. Oh, but I think there was a castle in that one. Do castles make it fantasy?

How about knives? They're sort of like little swords. I guess a book about someone who sells cutlery might be fantasy.

This is a very interesting line of thought you've happened upon. I think we may have had it wrong all along....

Sorry, I just couldn't resist some rampant sarcasm in this one.

 

[Eventine]

I thought it was JohnH for a sec there....

 

[Erfael]

I thought it was JohnH for a sec there....

Yes, I guess that was sort of JohnHesque, wasn't it? I don't know if I should be proud of that or cry about it......

Seriously though, I think your definition needs some tweaking, Miller.

 

[Miller]

[/QUOTE]Seriously though, I think your definition needs some tweaking, Miller.[/QUOTE]

I think You need some tweaking. Calm down and re-read what I said. Quoting what I said here- "then I guess it could be fantasy." 'Could' jumps out at me here. Also the fact I was talking about 'One' book (series) and its classification. It has been a looong time since I read the begining books of that series, but I seem to remember them jumping back and forth between our realm and one of fantasy, which became apparent as the future at a much later date didn't it? I forget. But I am sure you will answer that for me.

What about this part of what I said that you left out? If chopping a persons statements into something that suits your needs is a normal thing for you, then fine, otherwise lemme say it again.-

Somehow the line between the two gets fuzzy- fiction and fantasy I mean. Which I find somewhat annoying really. What about a book section called Hard Fiction? Or something like that?

I guess that basically backs up the part about how the The Dark Tower Series could be classified as fantasy if a publisher/bookstore decided it should be there.

Or maybe books like The Gunslinger can just go in the Stephen King section of the bookstore, and not need to be burdened with such classifications. Or somewhere on a sales rack smack dab in front of the door, 'Pistol' and all. Not a thought given to the fact he did not carry a 'stick of metal with a sharp edge on it' that would have sent him sprawling to the 'Fantastic' section.

Or maybe you could go write a short story for the (community) competition about a guy who sits at his computer and rants about old books and other peoples loose classifications of them. Throw a sword in too, unless of course you wouldn't want it to be fantasy .