What does everyone think of James Barclay?

Pyr is mostly hardcover and trade paperback, they just started an experiment with large mass market paperbacks for Joel Shepherd Cassandra Kresnov series. The Large Mass Market paperbacks are about an inch taller than standard MMPB and the binding is tighter. The format has been successful but I really dislike it, it is $2 more than standard MMPB and not as comfortable to hold - it is somewhere between a MMPB and TPB.

Anyway, back to James. My guess is that they'll bring you out in Trade Paperback (as they did with Tom Lloyd and the ever-so-humble Joe Abercrombie). Pyr's done some great covers for most of their books, so I wouldn't be surprised to see another round of covers for the books.
 
OK I've read the first 4 pages of this thread and there's nothing on the Ascendants of Estorea series, so I've just got to wade in now.

I borrowed "Cry of the Newborn" at the library without ever hearing anything of this author before, and I went straight out when I finished and bought "Shout for the Dead".

I'm a veteran of Erikson and Jordan, but what seemed to set CotN apart was the quality of the writing. The plot was less chaotic and the characters more consistent and engaging than I had got used to with contemporary heroic fantasy. And, most of all, Barclay seemed to understand the value of the well timed plot surprise and the building of tension. He also clearly possesed at least a tentative willingness and ability to characterise convincingly, which IMO eludes Erikson at times. I thought the ominous counterpoint between the Westfallen scenes and the epic war going on elsewhere worked really well in the first half of CotN. And this set the stage for the conclusion by setting up characters I actually cared about, even liked.

I was drawn to Barclay's realistic and naturalistic magic, having tired of the extravagance of Erikson. He had actually considered how these powers would fit in to the human world. (Why don't Erikson's mages just take over the Empire and subjugate the powerless?! Even Jordan had strict devices to prevent this!)

I also was pleased to finally read a fantasy writer who could
write exciting and plausible battle scenes in a way that drew the reader in rather than simply droning on for page after page from a detached perspective.

But, I must say that I was a little disappointed with SftD, the second title. So I guess i got my money's worth over all!

I think by the time I came to part 2, a feeling of overkill was developing. I'd devoured the first several battle scenes from CotN but started to bore as I was expected to care about a range of disparate military characters in far-flung regions whose only function really were to fight and usually die! It was the story of the development of the "Ascendants" that really interested me, which seemed to take second place, in the second volume, to pitched battle after pitched battle. By this point I think the book needed some variety. Barclay clearly possesses a range of writing skills, so it was a bit disappointing that SftD failed to develop the non-militaristic aspects of the complex story that CotN had begun. The politics and intrigue might have been given more attention and a bit of insight in to the ideas behind the Ascendancy provided. What sets this series apart for me is the interaction between the personalities of the Ascendants and their various allies and enemies, so I would have liked more of this. Also, in action terms, the absence of any real single-combat scenes is surprising. And while the plight of the soldier characters was often moving, Barclay's unwillingness to stick with any narrative strand for any length of time did mitigate this to some extent. I know it's the fashionable way of doing things, but I reckon Barclay's writing could definitely handle a more focused narrative structure

What did anyone else think of the AoE beginning, and should I go on to read any further volumes?
 
Last edited:
I've not yet read AoE, but, if I understand correctly, it's a two book set. Barclay's Raven series, however, is a seven book series, with a side novella. I would expect that if you liked his writing, and the heroic fantasy sub-genre, then you would enjoy the Raven Series.
 
Hi there UB313,

Thanks very much for your comments on the Ascendants books. Brilliant you loved the first one so well. Sorry you weren't so bowled over by the sequel. It had a very different mood to the first and was an investigation of how the Ascendants cope ten years on from the events of the first. It is dark... indeed one of my friends having read asked another 'Is James all right?' Happily I am :)

Peter is correct. The Ascendants is a two book series with no more planned at present. The Raven now inhabit seven volumes - different stuff to AofE and firmly heroic action fantasy in a more medieval style world. If you pick one up, let me know what you think. Dawnthief is the first in the series btw.

Thanks once again.
NOM
 
Finished Ravensoul today and I really enjoyed it :) I think it's a very different ending from Demonstorm and perhaps a response to those who complained about how it went down the first time (I was one, sorry James :( ) I think it was a tough approach to take with a lot of pitfalls smartly avoided and although the Garonin seemed a little out of place in the world I couldn't get enough of it by the end. I was pleasantly surprised by the Raven lineup and more Auum is always a good thing, all in all well worth a second read ... once I've read the first six again :)
 
People complained about the ending of Demonstorm? :eek: I am unable to complete my lunch. Who, besides yourself are these heretics? I am desolate to discover I am not universally popular and loved equally by man and beast for the extraordinary quality of my work.

And now, returning to the real world. Ravensoul wasn't a response to the ending of Demonstorm, it was another tale that needed telling. Seriously, I wasn't aware of too many negatives about it but there you go. I will confess I like where The Raven are come the end of Ravensoul. Very fitting. Glad you enjoyed it so well, Kater. The Garonin certainly were out of place. Deliberately so, you understand :). An utterly different and implacable enemy to your usual fantasy foe.

If you have a mo, could you post or PM what you thought was wrong with Demonstorm's conclusion? Always happy to learn new things from such lumninaries as yourself, my friend.

NOM
 
i liked the raven books very much, i devoured them all in no time (even though my wife wasn't very happy about it....)

"let's do something tonight".
" can't. must read."
" grmpf..."

for some reason I also had the most issues with the second to last book of the raven series (demonstorm). i thought it was a little over the top, so to speak. a little too much action and battles and warfare. I was pretty exhausted in the end. Yet, after the very last sentence i had to wipe away a tear, so i guess it was a job well done by the author.
 
The Garonin certainly were out of place. Deliberately so, you understand :). An utterly different and implacable enemy to your usual fantasy foe.

It works, the jarring of a
form of technology and 'guns'
in the setting established an anxiety about how it may all end. Particularly with Auum's advice and the happenings on Calaius early doors. I've sent you a pm about DS.
 
Last edited:
Pyr is mostly hardcover and trade paperback, they just started an experiment with large mass market paperbacks for Joel Shepherd Cassandra Kresnov series. The Large Mass Market paperbacks are about an inch taller than standard MMPB and the binding is tighter. The format has been successful but I really dislike it, it is $2 more than standard MMPB and not as comfortable to hold - it is somewhere between a MMPB and TPB.

Anyway, back to James. My guess is that they'll bring you out in Trade Paperback (as they did with Tom Lloyd and the ever-so-humble Joe Abercrombie). Pyr's done some great covers for most of their books, so I wouldn't be surprised to see another round of covers for the books.

Yep, there's a podcast interview where he says they can't afford to do mass market books, don't make enough money.

You can always get the earlier mass market Kresnov edition though, if that is what you want (I prefer these too, for holding).
 
Elves: Once Walked With Gods, a story of the early life of Auum (of Raven fame) is being listed for 15 Oct 2009. Let the Barclay-mania begin.
 
I recently got Dawntheif and it's been in the TBR pile for a bit, but I've really been eyeing it more and more. I know this is a series, but are the novels stand-alone as well?
 
Last edited:
I'd read Dawnthief first: it sets up the characters.

To be honest, you are better reading them in order as the writing and the characters develop.

But they can be read without too much difficulty seperately. There's enough hints along the way to help you work out what's going on.

Mark
 
Thanks. :) I was just curious, since I plan on reading all of them anyway. I've read way too many good reviews not to.
 
I went and bought all of the Barclay works based on the favorable reviews here. I proceeded with reading the Ascendants duology first because everyone seemed to favor the Raven series. I know this sounds counter-intuitive, but I wanted to sample one of Barclay's less ballyhooed novels before gorging myself on the pièce de résistance. Currently, I'm about halfway through Shout for the Dead and I'm really enjoying it. I find it to be solid and complete. There are no progression gaps or inconsistencies in the storyline. The tapestry of politics, economics, theology, powerplays over personal agendas and cultural differences between competing powers is superbly tied together. However, it is not possessed of a frantic or gripping pace. This is not to say that it is dull, just that it's pacing in steady, constant and perfectly well-rounded, in my opinion. Many offerings in the genre have frantic pacing, which can be nice. Others are extraordinarily dull, which isn't nice. Yet most have a mixture of both that always leaves me feeling like I'm traveling in an auto with no suspension. What I see as a perfect, even pace is what attracts me to my most favorite works (LotR, MST and Tigana) and Barclay's Ascendants has that. Certainly, like the other works I listed, the Ascendants does require an investment of at least the first third of book one before the stage has been completely set, but an introductory phase has never bothered me.

Now I really can't wait to read the Raven series. If it is truly better, the Raven series will be a sumptuous feast indeed.
 
Last edited:
Slightly off topic... it's only a minor rant, but I really don't like the new covers for the Raven books. They remind me of the reprinted edtions of Gemmell's books from the late 90s. That said, they are better than the original covers for the first 5 books!

The silhouetted figures on a coloured background looked great.

I loved Demonstorm personally, the action was so intense and the pace breathtaking. The end was really the only way it could have gone.
 
I really don't like the new covers for the Raven books. They remind me of the reprinted edtions of Gemmell's books from the late 90s.
I suspect that was deliberate. Branding and all that.

The silhouetted figures on a coloured background looked great.
Again, the Ascendants covers and those covers were deliberately similar, I think.

Mark
 
Just finished Cry of the Newborn and decided I wanted to put down a few of my thoughts, if only to assuage my frustration at a book that I found both compelling and disappointing. Beware, spoilers galore.

First off, the positives. I thought the Estorean Conquord was an excellent creation, based clearly on the Roman Empire, its political structure and it's rationale and methods of expansion. The military formations were similarily convincing and well researched( the mix of Roman legions, Macedonian phalanxes and Parthian cataphracts into one quasi-historical army was particularly clever), and every single battle was exciting and vivid: the Battle of Scintarit Fords was the best part of the whole book.

I also thought the conflict between dogmatic orthodoxy represented by Chancellor Koroyan and 'natural' belief, for want of a better phrase, represented by the Ascendants was realistic and sadly relevant for the times we live in.

I also liked the powers of the Ascendants; a very green and groovy magic.

Now the negatives. I am loathe to put this so bluntly, but the quality of the writing wasn't great. Far too often it seemed to occur to the author that the reader would be thinking 'Hang on. Why are they going that way? It doesn't make sense' and he quickly had one of the characters say 'Oh by the way, we have to go on this path because the other leads to the Metaphor of Doom, okay?'

Poor writing was made worse by the pace. Too much happened too quickly, which meant many characters didn't get as fully rounded as they should. It wasn't such a problem for the main characters, but many of the lesser ones were too cardboard: Marshal Defender Yuran's relationship with Megan, for example, didn't feel realistic at all and rather than enrich the story it felt irrelevant and pointless. Yuran, better written, could have been one of the best characters of the whole book, but the fantastic idea of a man trapped by circumstances not of his making was for me mostly wasted. Even the characters who were fully rounded like the Ascendants and Paul Jhered I didn't care about. Indeed, by the end of the book I found myself willing the Tsardon to smash the Conquord every single time.

I also didn't like the use of contemporary language("work with me people" and "I hear you" for example), although why it bothered me more in this book than others such as The First Law series I don't know.

The author also stretched credibility to breaking point too often. The worst case of this was the march of Roberto Del Aglios with his army through Tsard and Atreska. The Tsardon were smart enough to trick and defeat the main Conquord force at the Scintarit Fords and then ambush and annihilate the southern army at Ludjek's Defile, but the one army that actually beat one of theirs, well that one they totally ignore as it ambles on its way through their own country. After all, what harm can eleven thousand battle-hardened and victorious soldiers do. Not until it reachs the border with Gestern do they think about it and even then it's only to delay it, not use the 3-to-1 man advantage to destroy it.
Furthermore, by the end of the book its so obvious that the Conquord is going to win that even if their army was down to four men and a goat it would still trounce the 50,000+ Tsardon hordes, Ascendants or no Ascendants(By the way Tsardon, learn to defend your artillery from enemy cavalry. Four times in the final battle you let them trample it, ffs).

There are other examples I could give of things I don't think worked but it would be tedious to list them one by one, so I'll end by saying that despite the negative vibe I've written I saw enough in Cry of the Newborn to read the second book Shout for the Dead and the Raven books but I'll be hoping another great story doesn't get lost in the telling of it again.
 
Numenorian

This is a very considered response. Thank you. Clearly I'm delighted about the positives you found and not nearly so excited about the negatives. So let me respond although as with all things, there's plenty of not being able to please all the people all the time...

I'm not going to agree with you on the quality of writing. That is your opinion and I respect it but I think it's a stylistic issue. Some people love the way I write. I may well have had my characters explain their actions in ways they shouldn't and if so, guilty as charged. You try not to but slip-ups do happen.

Yuran and Megan. I think I've got their relationship about right in terms of weight. They are an interesting couple and there is more from them in Shout For The Dead. I think writing about Yuran in more detail would have been a distraction. But I'm glad you wanted more, if that makes sense. He is a conflicted character and has provoked plenty of debate.

A shame you didn't much care for Jhered. he's a favourite of mine. Actually, one of the few truly honourable lights in thH Conquord firmament (along with Vasselis, Roberto and a few others). I don't mind that you wanted Tsard to win. The Conquord is most certainly not the white-hat brigade and there should be some level of wondering about who actually deserves to win any battle. Your reaction is fairly extreme but hey, why not?

Contemporary language? I don't know. Again, a stylistic thing. I've been using it since I began with Dawnthief way back in 1999. I think it adds reality to characters who can appear stilted with cod LOTR style langauge. I think you need to use the language with which you are comfortable as a writer.

Your last point made me smile. Four men and a goat. Very good. And yep, it was stretching credibility a little. You didn't buy it. Fair enough. I'm not putting this up as a defence but knowing an army is coming and doing something about it are two different things. And the senior members of the army do discuss how unlikely it is that they have not been spotted and reported upon. It infers that there are Tsardon scouts about and also a net of Conquord soldiers stopping them. Important too is that Roberto's army are marching in the wrong direction. They're an invading army heading backwards.

Look, the Tsardon should have seen them and should have done something about it. But look at history and there are many quite staggering examples of where one side does nothing because they just don't believe an enemy is coming at them from direction x until it is too late. A great book on generals, battles and all that is 'In The Name of Rome' by Adrian Goldsworthy. Some stunning stuff in there.

Anyway, thanks once again for your response and for wanting to read the sequel despite your reservations. Like every book of mine, it's split opinion. I'd be very interested in yours. And by the way, The Raven novels are nothing like the Ascendants at all... I hope you enjoy what you read.

NOM
 
NOM

Many thanks for your response. I'm slightly stunned to get a personal reply from you but I'll try not to let it show. Thanks too for the heads-up about 'In Name Of Rome'. I've never read anything by Adrian Goldsworthy, but I'll be on the look-out in the future. Personally, the best books about Rome I've ever read are the Roman Imperial Biographies by Routledge although, as the title suggests, they only cover the Empire and not the earlier Republic.

Regarding your replies to my issues with Cry For The Newborn, I didn't read anything I could really argue with except that I don't think a greater focus on Yuran (with or without Megan) would have be a distraction. He is the embodiment of the cost of the Conquord's ambitions to its citizens. I suppose what I'm saying is that I felt you wrote a multi-layered book but some layers didn't get as well developed as others.

As for the writing style and contemporary language, any author must of course be true to themselves. They didn't work for me, that's all.

Finally you may be interested to know that I'm 60 or so pages into Shout For The Dead, and at the serious, serious risk of being called a suck-up I'm enjoying it more than the first book. Why that is, as it's the same characters, I don't know. Anyway, when I've finished it I'll post further.
 
NOM, might I ask a question? It's something which has been mildly bothering me since 'Newborn' was first published in the UK.

It's something which struck me right in the earliest pages of 'Newborn' and, though I've followed several threads about the series here and elsewhere, it's something no one else has mentioned. I'm not sure if that means I'm alone or whether others noticed it and weren't as bothered.

First and foremost, I enjoyed the book, and have 'Shout' on my massive pile waiting to be read. It's got some nice ideas and a setting which stands out. The world should have more fantasy Rome and more tax collectors as major characters! I've read the first Raven trilogy too; the battle scenes there hum along beautifully.

I'd like to know if something was intentional. It's a heavy spoiler for 'Newborn' so I'll tag it.

Right from his very first appearance I found it very obvious Gorian would become evil. A while later and I decided he would probably rape Mirron. My reasoning for that was that the attraction was clearly evident, and that raping her would shove him firmly onto the evil side with no clear way back, as well as set up a probable baby for the next book. I was right on all counts.

Was it your intent that the reader see all this coming?

It felt as though he were set up to become what he did, rather than growing and finding himself there, if that makes sense. Possibly that's what you were aiming for? The doomed character, the one whose fate is clear to all but those who might alter it.
 

Sponsors


We try to keep the forum as free of ads as possible, please consider supporting SFFWorld on Patreon


Your ad here.
Back
Top