What Makes A Good Story?

[RedMage]

About what I expect from you, Steamboy. Ever pedantic.

There are so few people posting anything of interest on this forum, and you want to be snide instead of taking the opportunity to discuss something.

I shouldn't have bothered coming back. Enjoy Cicero.

If it counts for anything I rate the pedanticism of your comment at a solid zero. I'd give it "accurate observation."

Yeah, but who's counting?

Okay guys. I think we can all agree that it's pretty quiet around here. And we all have agreed on that at one time or another. So instead of these snide little potshots at one another, let's have real discussion.

I want at least 50 words from each of you on what makes a good story. I want 50 words of your thoughts on the topic. Once you've done that, you can respond to each other. But no more sniping, okay? That hurts not only you, but this forum you all clearly still enjoy visiting.

The same goes for all the other threads here. 50 words minimum of your own thoughts before you reply to others, and no sniping in those either.

 

[Alan L]

I put my word count on this thread at just over 700, and I protest (in the weakest terms possible) the characterization of me agreeing that SFF, or indeed any form of story that's outside the known current world, has a requirement for exposition that makes a good dialogue-heavy story challenging as "sniping".

I think the right balance between dialogue and exposition varies by genre. A literary story I'm working on set at the end of the last century has a truckload less exposition than my SF story set in the not-too-distant future. A story set in 2025 might have even less. At the same time I'll note that stories that rely more on the reader filling in the context are stories that are more likely to become dated and irrelevant as time passes.

I'll say it again: "good" is highly subjective. I've picked up award-winning stories that did nothing for me. Trying to define what makes a good story in universal terms seems impossible.

Maybe the question should be "what is a competent story?" There are lots of specific answers to that question we can agree on, and probably a few that spark (civil) discussion.

 

[Cicero]

From my standpoint, a good story doesn't mean the book or story in question is necessarily an incredibly well written literary masterpiece . Ive read a few such books and stories in that category which, ended up being a not great reading experience for me . For me , the story has to have entertainment value. I have to care about the characters and what happens to them. The story has to be one that holds my interest so that at the end of the read, I can to say to my self ' "That was a good read and well worth the time spent.

 

[kennychaffin]

50 Words huh? Is there a name for that length of story, essay, nano-post. Oh yeah.... Dribble, Mini-saga, micro-nonfiction. But, does that make a good story or post, does it depend on length or girth. Style or strength. Writing is artform and art is in the eye of the beholder.

(there ya go 50 words)

 

[RedMage]

Not entirely on topic @kennychaffin. Try again.

This time, don't beat around the bush. There's no more birds or foxes to scare out. Take your shot instead.

What elements must a good story have, in your opinion? Sure, it's subjective. 100% subjective. That's why we're discussing.

 

[Alan L]

Oh you want subjective... some things I find good in a story:

• Gradual character development. Not the character who comes to understand his flaw and turns into the reformed guy on the next page.
• Three-dimensional secondary characters.
• Stories with a theme, something that makes me think about larger real-world issues without being pedantic.
• Misleading foreshadowing, where you think "aha, I know where this is going" but it takes another direction and that unexpected direction still fits the foreshadowing.
• Unexpected resolution that doesn't come out of the blue, where you can look back and see the set-up that you missed the first time.
• Resolution that's realistic, not "oh, we found this magic thing, pushed the easy button and now everything is fixed!" Hand me the barf bag and learn how to write an ending (confession: my first ending did this and it sucked.)
• Endings that are endings, not just checkpoints before the next book in a series. That's a good way to make sure I never read another book in the series, or from that author for that matter.
• Misleading protagonists, where the hero-ally or hero-antagonist turns out to be the actual hero and the character you thought was the main protagonist gets drawn into their story while living theirs.
• Characters in realistic situations. I swear the next story that starts with a down-on-his-luck drifter who soon tuns out to be the descendant of some rich family and is now wealthy enough to buy a galaxy will be in the DNF pile the moment that happens.

 

[RedMage]

Oh you want subjective...

Not necessarily. I want an on topic discussion. Whether that's subjective or objective is up to you. Of course there's going to be tangents. That's fine. What I do not want is people beating around the bush and taking potshots at each other. This is a discussion forum, emphasis on discussion. It's not X/Twitter, BlueSky, Threads, Instagram, Facebook or other social media platform. 50 words is my challenge to you as it encourages delving deeper than a brief "agreed", "good idea" or a potshot at another member. However, the length doesn't matter if the post is not on topic.

If someone doesn't have anything to contribute on a topic, then I suggest they don't post in that thread. That's an option available to all members, and I use it everyday when I don't know about something and don't have the time or inclination to learn about it. If people want to simply hangout, shoot the breeze and take potshots, might I suggest our General Discussion Forum.

some things I find good in a story:

• Gradual character development. Not the character who comes to understand his flaw and turns into the reformed guy on the next page.
• Three-dimensional secondary characters.
• Stories with a theme, something that makes me think about larger real-world issues without being pedantic.
• Misleading foreshadowing, where you think "aha, I know where this is going" but it takes another direction and that unexpected direction still fits the foreshadowing.
• Unexpected resolution that doesn't come out of the blue, where you can look back and see the set-up that you missed the first time.
• Resolution that's realistic, not "oh, we found this magic thing, pushed the easy button and now everything is fixed!" Hand me the barf bag and learn how to write an ending (confession: my first ending did this and it sucked.)
• Endings that are endings, not just checkpoints before the next book in a series. That's a good way to make sure I never read another book in the series, or from that author for that matter.
• Misleading protagonists, where the hero-ally or hero-antagonist turns out to be the actual hero and the character you thought was the main protagonist gets drawn into their story while living theirs.
• Characters in realistic situations. I swear the next story that starts with a down-on-his-luck drifter who soon tuns out to be the descendant of some rich family and is now wealthy enough to buy a galaxy will be in the DNF pile the moment that happens.

Thank you, Alan! This is a great list. I'm currently typing this from the grocery store parking lot, so I'll have to come back later to discuss further.

 

[Stanley Steamboy]

Despite lists like Alan's - which are essentially accurate and useful - "what makes a good story" can fail to have any of those elements.

Really, written stories only require two elements:

Style. The use of prose in some way that holds the attention of the reader. We are all aware that a passage by one author we enjoy feels different than another favorite's. This isn't just individuality at play - we get something from those choices the writer makes about how to present the information the story contains using language that is spare, or humorous, or detailed, or rhythmic or uncomfortable. It is something that pulls us in early and keeps us in the world of the story when we come back to it.

Change. Whether it is twist or inevitable resolution, a story must display a change to an important element that it starts with. That can be the big twist, the end of the quest, character growth, character reveal or simply the moment the upset that started the story is rebalanced. That closes the arc and makes what the reader was doing have a point. The change makes it a story rather than a chronological list of events.



I never see real discussion of style. Writers who develop a sensitivity to it are unlikely to make many of the mistakes of poor fiction because it is very difficult to infodump or write reams of boring dialogue when you have a narrative voice that you are sticking to. That voice wouldn't annoy the reader.

 

[Alan L]

Agreed. My list was making a purposeful distinction between what I found to be the elements of a "good" story and the telling of that story, which is all about the prose itself.

Certainly, a story can have everything I listed and be told in such an unattractive way that reading it is not enjoyable. As a personal example, I will use Stephen King: clearly a master of story but I find his prose uninteresting. His work converts well to screenplays though, which suggests that the story is "good", it's how it's told that makes or breaks it.