What tempts you?

Wayne Batson

Tolkien Disciple
Joined
Nov 5, 2005
Messages
401
After reading the thread "Overhyped Bad Books" begun by JBI, I started thinking about the whole publishing/hype arena.

I'm wondering what kind of promotion works best?​

Reviews, blurbs from established authors, Internet Banner ads, face out books on the shelf, cool cover artwork, blogs, etc.???

I know the answer is probably different things work for different people, but I wonder what tempts YOU personally to try a new author?
 
hmmm.... at frist i look at the cover i guess.....if i like the cover i read the back and if i like that i start to read the book, and if i like that i look for more books by the author
 
I hate to carry on a one man conversation, but I had some additional thoughts about the topic. I was surfing Amazon to see how my Door Within books are doing--well by God's grace--well so far. Not Harry Potter well, not Chris Paolini well, and apparently not even Naomi Novik well.:eek: Just well enough that the publisher is happy, and I've made a little money. The 3rd book of the Door Within Trilogy is about to release at the end of August, and I'm thinking, what starts the snowball?

But then, I look at Naomi Novik's books and they are TEARING it up on Amazon. So what's the deal? IS it her publisher's promotion? Is it the blurb from Stephen King--shoot that even made me want to get the book. So is that it?

Here's where someone says, "Uh, Wayne, the answer is, write a good book."
But there is the rub. As JBI and others pointed out, there are some books that many think are not very good and yet...great sales. Hmmm...
 
Novik's bookas are doing well for a number of reasons. They are fun, fairly entertaining reads. One might even say perfect beach reads.

They have also received an incredible amount of promotion from Del Rey. There have been articles in not just genre magazines, but general book publishing magazines, too. Part of the marketing is that Del Rey decided to publish the three books in sequential months, rather than waiting for a year between each volume, giving her more of an "experienced" writer look to those browsing for something to read.

Of course the King blurb doesn't hurt either.

What tempts ME to try a new author?

If others who have exhibited similar tastes to mine enjoyed the book, in other words - word of mouth.
 
Rob B said:
Part of the marketing is that Del Rey decided to publish the three books in sequential months, rather than waiting for a year between each volume, giving her more of an "experienced" writer look to those browsing for something to read.

That is similar in some ways to Thomas Nelson's plan with me. The Door Within was September '05. Rise of the Wyrm Lord April '06, and Final Storm August '06. They plan to have all three books out in hard cover for quite awhile. Hopefully they will continue to feed off each other. Oh, by the way, Rob, my publisher has green-lighted the pirate book. Tentative title is "Isle of Swords."

As far as why I might try a new author: I'm usually a cover person. The art has to grab me first, then the teaser summary on the back better hook me, and then sometimes, I read the first coupla pages.
 
I'm with Rob. Just word-of-mouth. I never browse any more with the intent to buy. I may browse to see what new names are on the shelf, but then it still takes some sort of confirmation of that in order to get me to buy.

Cover art - don't care
blurbs - don't care
reviews - pretty much don't care
banner ads - don't care (but they have let me know things are available, which have then later been confirmed through word of mouth)
cover out in store - REALLY don't care.

And by word of mouth I'm not so much talking about people telling me it's good. It's more me getting a sense of who around here are liking certain books and what kind of books they are. I may know that if Rob likes gritty contemporary mythological fantasy A, I'd like that too based on other things that he liked and I liked. But I may not like the same hoopy epic B that Rob likes, as he and I have different tastes in Epic fantasy. Also, if Jack tells me that new book Z has characterization very much like that found in Piknins work, I know to trust that I'll like the characterization in book Z, as I know that he and I like the same things about Piknins's characterization. There are other people around here that I know if they say they like a book, for whatever reason, I steer way clear of it, as I know our tastes are just not lining up at all. (All examples are fabricated)

It's all very complex, but since I've been paying attention to what other people around here like I've found far fewer duds in my reading experience.
 
Usually what tempts me is when a book is recommended from a friend/friends. Most of my friends and I all love similiar types of fantasy so pretty much anything they recommend I will trust..One thing that sort of tempts me though I know it shouldn't is cover art. An attractive cover-art will usually result in me checking out reviews online where as a bad cover by a good author puts me off of the book, though I still will read it and buy it usually. Sffworld also plays a big part in what I end up reading, I've read a lot of books that other people on here have recommended with hardly any disappointments. I don't care at all for blurbs or promotions.
 
I'm gonna have to depress you more and agree with the previous posters: recommendations from friends and people who have similar tastes work the best. However, a great review from a place like curled up with a good book or some other review site or blog might make a difference. I'm also always interested in reading a chapter on-line because that's the best way of knowing if I like the writer's voice.

A blurb fom Lois McMaster Bujold or Steven Brust would probably make me buy it on the spot since I've yet to see blurbs from either of them. Unless it's a romance or a cooking book.

However, in a library good cover and/or interesting back cover summary might get me to borrow it and if it turns out to be good, I'm likely to buy it. That's what happened with Keyes' Age of Unreason: I borrowed the first book and bought the rest.
 
I usually go off what the book is about. If I read the back cover and I find myself interested in what the story is about, I will give it a try.
Sometimes this works out (shadowfall, heir of autumn, the healer) and sometimes it doesn't( sorcery rising, a shadow in summer).

Sometimes I will read the first few pages too. The story can be great and original, but if I don't like how the author writes, then I usually won't like the book.

Cover art may first attract me to the book, but does not decide if I am going to give it a try or not.

I like to come on here and see what is being is said about the book also. Alot of the time though, I buy a book before any one posts anything about it, like The Wizard Lord, which I enjoyed.

Blurbs by other authors really mean nothing. Do you think they are going to say something bad about a book or if they did, that they would put it on the cover? Remember, these authors will need others to write blurbs about their books.

As for face outs on the shelf in the book store. Being a manager at a Books-A-Million, I can tell you that book stores are so trashed at the end of day, that we don't have time to pick and choose which books get faced out and which ones don't. Usually the ones with the most copies get faced out, weather they are good or bad.

The fact that I get a big fat discount on any book I buy leads me to take chances on a few. I like to give new or lesser known authors a chance, so that I can recommend them to people who come in looking for something new.

I read nothing but sci fi/fantasy and love talking to customers about books that I have read and hearing about books that they have read. If you are lucky enough to have book store near you who has someone like me, go talk to them. Alot of the time I can put a good book in someone's hand that they have never read or keep them from buying a bad one.

If I am really unsure about a book, my company has a book check out program, so I can basically use the store as library and I'll go that route.
 
If you want to sell more books then get them out in paperback asap. There's no way I can afford to pay for hardback books. Some books come out in both formats straight away and others take up to a year. Don't understand it really because if you can't afford a hardback then it won't force you into buying. I just go down to the library and you don't get a sale!
 
Some of the best selling first novels or collections that we've sold have done so off a strong buzz online and in print. Reviews in popular blogs, ezines, and magazines can get people talking. Most of these authors had their own blogs and contributed heavily to the marketing, running contests, doing signings, going to conventions, and just being visible.

If you're publisher isn't well known, they'll need to contact bookstores or the book will go unnoticed and their discount must be standard industry discount. Most bookstores won't order it since we're all inundated with self-published or POD titles. Promote those that sell your book on your website and/or sign copies for them. At that point you're doing something for them and they'll remember it. A lot of handselling takes place in stores. You want those people working for you. You can't allow your publisher to depend solely on Amazon. You miss a major portion of the book-buying market that way.

You commented on Naomi Novik's books. Aside from being very good, her publisher marketed her books well, and there was a tremendous amount of positive buzz from recognized names online and from abroad. It also helped that this was an affordable paperback and that all three books were released in such a short period.

-Neil
 
I also tend to choose what to read by other people's recommendations, but that's just where I start. I also look at reader reviews and examine the negative comments. If I read something like "the writing was horrible," I'm about 30% discouraged to read the book. Since I choose a book without looking at it first, cover art doesn't affect me except on those few occasions when I feel like spontaneously finding a book. Really bad cover art only puts me off if it combines with what the blurb on the back says, so I might be able to guess if there is little actual depth the novel at all.

Now this doesn't tell you anything new, but I have another comment that may actually help this discussion some. A lot (all?) of the responses so far have been along the lines of "a read what others (friends/family/book store clerks) recommend." Now that hardly helps you because you can't go around telling every person you meet about your book, in the hopes that they might be related in some way to a SFF reader. To better understand this dilemma, I suggest you read Malcom Gladwell's "Tipping Point." In this book, Gladwell describes the nature of trends. Books aren't the only media to propagate by word-of-mouth. Other associated subjects include crime, fashion, and high school popularity. Gladwell's hypothesis is that trends propgate through "nodes" of people -- that is, most people in the world only interact strongly with maybe twenty or so individuals. But some people are the tend-setters, those who know literally hundreds of people. If a trend hits one of these "nodes," it will explode in popularity. I am not using Gladwell's own terminology for this, which is why I am afraid this may not make much sense, but the book is very interesting in a psychological, though not necessarily marketing, sense.
 
Well if I knew the secret, I probably wouldn't tell you it, but unfortunately, there's no definite route. I can tell you certain things that are going on right now:

1) Hardcovers to get more reviews: This has been going on since the 1990's - limited hardcover runs expressly to get sff titles into libraries that wouldn't take them otherwise, and to get reviews from mainstream publications, which only wanted hardcovers. This worked so well, that now sff publishers are able to get mainstream reviewers to cover a lot of paperback offerings too.

2) Multiple publishings of series books in a short time period: This used to happen periodically, now it's happening en masse with sff publishers, using the category romance model. This has occurred basically in response to the demands of fans and booksellers. Fans got very grumpy about the delays in series like Jordan and Martin. If it's a series, they now want to have a whole series to read, without year-long waits. So serial publishing, with the books coming out close together, gets people to buy the whole series, instead of just one book and then possibly losing interest. For booksellers, it means books on the shelves, which they want, plus it means they can try to sell someone three books instead of one. Serial publishing has been a major strategy in creating the supernatural fantasy explosion, and establishing a fan audience quickly for authors like Kelly Armstrong and Charlaine Harris.

3) Cross-marketing: The book, a well-known author or promising debut, comes out as a Bantam Book. It's marketed as general fiction through Bantam Books and as sff through Bantam Spectra. They can do this because bookstores have lightened up about this stuff, because there's more mainstream interest in sff, more non-category authors interested in the category market, and more sff fans reading non-category titles. Also, with them being giant international octopi, a publisher like Warner can co-ordinate British, American, Canadian and Australian publications and promotion efforts. Smaller presses catch the wave by marketing their stuff as cross-medium, targeting graphic novel, mystery, literary fiction and other non-category markets. All of this gets them more mainstream reviews, which means many more reviews in total.

Naomi Novik's main drum beater is her British publisher, who came out with the books first. Del Rey is just following up in the American market. No matter how much publicity a publisher choses to do for an unknown author, though, if the booksellers don't agree a newcomer has "legs," they won't go for it. Many times, a publisher gambles on extra publicity for a new title, and then booksellers and more importantly, potential readers, don't cotton to it and it flops.

The publisher also can't force mainstream or even category press to do reviews or interviews. In this case, the publishers' cross-marketing, positioning Novik as Pat O'Brien (a mainstream author,) with dragons, seems to have helped and gotten them mainstream coverage, which makes a much larger crowd of folk aware of the novel's existence. The serial publishing then helps her potentially get multiple reviews.

But, unless you have good word-of-mouth, it doesn't work so well. Novik has gotten great word-of-mouth, in category and out. The majority of sff authors, however, do not charge out of the gate. They build up an audience more slowly, also on good word of mouth.

Your publisher, Wayne, also cross-markets, as a religious and psychology publisher that branches out into other markets. You are being marketed in religious fiction (even if your stuff isn't very religious,) and various youth markets, right? They may be doing less category fantasy marketing, and also just trying to build you up a fan audience. And they're doing serial publishing.

You can help with word-of-mouth by trying to introduce yourself to booksellers, especially the few specialty sff booksellers left. If your stuff is YA, you can also try to arrange to visit some school classrooms in your target age range and talk to the kids and do a little reading. Conventions can help, as is getting to know the online sff community, as you're doing. And you and your agent can encourage your publisher to seek out mainstream and category reviews.

The number one reason people buy fiction is that they are curious about a title and want to check it out. Publicity can make them aware of a book and thus hopefully get the curiousity generating, but it can't sustain waves of interest. The number one way people find out about a particular title is still that they heard about it from a friend or acquaintance who recommended it.

The members on this site offer a sort of skewed view, because they are actively seeking to find out about fantasy titles. I, for instance, come here specifically for that purpose, also get publisher newsletters, troll Amazon, etc. I may be attracted by a cover or a title, face up or not, but if the book description doesn't interest me, I'm not going to try it. Reviews alert me to a book's existence, but don't influence my buying decision. Other people may be more influenced by a review, a quote, an ad, a front-table display, but they'll only buy a specific title over other titles that have reviews, quotes, ads, a front-table display, if they feel the review, quote, ad or cover copy when they pick it up from the display, makes it sound interesting. Or if a friend told them it was interesting and they're willing to see if they agree.

All of which makes fiction one of the trickiest markets to sell in. So if you find any foolproof methods, be sure to contact publishers about it, because they will probably pay you a large amount of money for the information.

Of course, we could also use another reason for people to buy fiction titles. People go to the movies just to get out of the house or go on a date. They buy fashion because it shows they have high social status and are trendy. They buy music because in their particular circles it's considered the cool music or because the female singer was really sexy in the music video. They buy a game because it's popular and all their friends will be envious and want to come over and play it. They'll buy a non-fiction business book because their boss thinks every business person should read it to be in the know.

But aside from reading clubs, where you buy the book to read and have a social evening of polite discussion, we can't seem to come up with any other reason to get people to buy fiction, except that they heard it was a good story or it sounds like a good story to them. At least, not anything reliable. A movie version helps, we know that, but it's not guaranteed, and most books are not going to get made into movies.
 
I have to go with what everyone else is saying and it would be word of mouth. I have a friend and we swap books all the time. He has read fantasy for years so he has been giving me some things to read that I never read. Now most of them I like, some I don't, but I trust his opinion the most and know that I will probably like what he gives me to read. I have found some very good titles off this forum too.
 
I go by the book description and also by recommendations at forums, if I think the person has similar tastes to mine.
 
I know I am the odd duck in approach, but quite simply I go looking for the books. Starts out with Locus' monthly "books sold/books delivered" column. All get duly noted with, I would say, an easy 70% return on the potential listed. Horror, lipstick and nylon contemporary tough girl stuff (for the most part) and hard core scifi usually don't make the grade if they are listed as such when Locus makes their report.

Second phase is taking a stroll through Amazon's various incarnations to do a forthcoming books search usually defined by publisher. Throw in Galaxy books as they seem to be the only Australia online retailer who posts releases in advance and you have a good hour long task to pass the time every couple of months.

Third is only when feeling bored and I do a jump through the publisher sites to see what is coming out.

Fourth phase is pretty much just opening the mailbox and seeing what nice books someone decided to send me. Sometimes this phase can go a long, long time without any results. Other times. Like today. I find a copy of Rawn's Spellbinder hiding within.

Fifth phase is hitting the brick and mortar used and new stores. And just copping a feel on the books themselves.

But I am easy. Easier than a US congressman at a Halliburton sponsered weekend junket. If I see in Locus or on Amazon the words "fantasy" following the publisher's name of Tor, Eos, DAW, Ace, Spectra, Roc, Pyr, Night Shade, Meisha Merlin, Gollancz, Orbit, Voyager (either country), Bantam Transworld or a couple of others I can't think of offhand, I am pretty much going to check the book out. And unfortunately for my bank account, checking the book out means buying it.

And if there is even the slightest hint or whiff of it being self-published or a vanity press in any way or sort, I tend to avoid it like the plague.
 
Well, I'm sort of weird because word of mouth is one surefire way to get me *not* to read a book. For whatever reason, when someone recommends a book to me, the only thing I can think about when I read it is the person who recommended it to me. I can't concentrate and the whole experience is tainted. This is true even if I wait 3 or 4 years after the recommendations. (I suspect I have issues...)

Anyway, that only goes for face-to-face recommendations. Some level of distance allows me to read stuff mentioned in blogs/forums/magazines without issue.

As far as finding books, I surf Amazon lists a lot. I'll just pick a book I like and click the associated guides/lists until I find a book I haven't read. Also, I'm a sucker for interviews by other authors/etc, but I tend to value cross-medium more than same medium. As mentioned, writers tend to like different books than maybe readers would like, so I'd be more likely to grab a book mentioned by a band I liked than another writer. Likewise, I buy lots of music based on recommendations of writers I like. (I always listen to music when I read though...)

so, for what it's worth, that's my feedback.
 
So who here has bought a book because they saw an ad, and not because they liked the sound of the book as described in the ad, or because they like the author and the ad alerted them to a new book coming out by the author, or because the cover art was rocking cool and indicated the book might be too? Who here bought a book because they saw an ad and decided that it must be an important book they should have because it was advertised? As they say in Ferris Bueller, anyone?

Do you pick up books to look at that are on the front table displays at bookstores? (I do.) How do you pick which book to pick up from the display? Do you buy the book because it's on the front table and so must be a big seller, or because you like the sound of the book from the cover copy and/or quotes?

If a bookstore has a club for sff, fantasy or a sub-category of fantasy, where you get info about one or three new titles a month and have the option to buy them, would you do it?

If you are looking for a particular book in a bookstore, as opposed to the online stores, and you can't find it, do you ask the bookstore staff to locate it for you or do you not bother?

(We might as well collect some additional data for Juzzza's studies.)
 
I buy a book based on whats on the back, and choose which backs to read by pure chance. I only have so much time to browse in a bookstore. I like a good title that is short enough to be typed in bigger letters on the edge or cover and long enough to hold a hint of what's inside. This will make me pick it up and read the back, no matter what art is on the cover. Especially great artwork on covers will also help me pick up a book, as I am a fan of Boris Vallejo art. I will sometimes go looking for books recommended by friends, here, or in reviews but if the back doesn't interest me I still wont buy it.

As for buying hardcovers .... I only buy hardcover of books I really been anticipating and cant wait for the paperback version, or if I want to replace a favorite paperback with the hardcover. My bookshelves are stuffed so paperbacks are preferred.

I never buy a new author from among the hardcovers. I will definatley wait for the paperback version first. If I like it, I will buy the rest of the series (in paperback), if there is a series, or any other books that author has written. If I really, really like it, I will go looking for the hardcover version.

KatG's questions: I have never bought a book because of the ads. I only buy hardcovers I really been waiting for from the front table or wherever they happen to be. Front table doesn't make a difference, except easier to find. I would buy more from a book club IF they included paperbacks. Hardcovers ... forget it. I have asked a bookstore to order me books I couldn't find.

Ok, why dont SFF publishers have those little flyers in their paperbacks like romances do? There you can order more books by the same author, or other authors. It is so convenient and the little scratch-off games where you can win books are fun. I also think combining SF/F/H in a flyer would work well. I, for one, dont limit my reading exclusively to one or the other. I would also like to open my Sunday paper and have one of those little junk ads be for SFF books (please, not JUST the hardcovers!!)
 
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