Who will replace Goodkind and Jordan?

[bossfan2000]

Yes, do I have to contribute something big? If you want more, just ask.

Well, for some of us thats fairly offensive. And this forum is usually pretty good at avoiding those kind of things.

 

[fk1523]

Well, for some of us thats fairly offensive. And this forum is usually pretty good at avoiding those kind of things.

I edited it.

Now I hope I just look stupid, instead of offensive.

 

[Davis Ashura]

How come the Bible's not on your list of bestselling fantasy

You might as well ask why the Torah or the Koran or whatever religious text isn't on that list, including any of the texts from pantheistic religions from ancient times, such as the Ramayana, Gilgamesh, the Mahabharat, the Iliad and Odyssey. I would think it was self-evident that for most purposes, those kind of texts wouldn't be considered part of the fantasy genre, and to try to do so would simply lead to others asking why discredited scientific texts would then also not be considered fantasy. The defintion would become so broad as to be meaningless at that point.
Gary Wassner, on his area of the forum actually has a massively long thread that's predicated on just what you ask, though: Is there a difference between scripture and fantasy?

 

[fk1523]

You might as well ask why the Torah or the Koran or whatever religious text isn't on that list, including any of the texts from pantheistic religions from ancient times, such as the Ramayana, Gilgamesh, the Mahabharat, the Iliad and Odyssey. I would think it was self-evident that for most purposes, those kind of texts wouldn't be considered part of the fantasy genre, and to try to do so would simply lead to others asking why discredited scientific texts would then also not be considered fantasy. The defintion would become so broad as to be meaningless at that point.
Gary Wassner, on his area of the forum actually has a massively long thread that's predicated on just what you ask, though: Is there a difference between scripture and fantasy?

You forgot to list Dianetics, you bigot.

 

[Davis Ashura]

You forgot to list Dianetics, you bigot.

Rats! Exposed again. BTW I agree about Butcher. If his next epic fantasy series is as good as Codex Alera, it'll be special and he'll have a huge bestseller on his hands.

 

[Siberian]

Rats! Exposed again. BTW I agree about Butcher. If his next epic fantasy series is as good as Codex Alera, it'll be special and he'll have a huge bestseller on his hands.

I thought his next series is going to be SciFi?

 

[fk1523]

Rats! Exposed again. BTW I agree about Butcher. If his next epic fantasy series is as good as Codex Alera, it'll be special and he'll have a huge bestseller on his hands.

Yes, Alera is pretty good. Funny thing is, imo, it gets better and better with each book. Seems like Butcher's writing is getting better with practice. And by writing, I mean his story telling.

And i also heard his next series will be sci-fi. But nowadays, the lines between genre's getting blurred. so I don't think anyone who's not already interested in Alera or Dresden will be turned off from the next one.

 

[Davis Ashura]

I heard it was sci-fi also. But I did say his next epic fantasy series not his next series.

 

[ChrisW]

His series will be at least six books long. The first three books tell Kvothe's backstory leading up to the present day and him heading off to kick some ass. The second three explore his story in the present. That seems a reasonable basis for a series.

Lynch's series is supposed to be ultimately 14 books in length, divided into two seven-book series. Interesting to see if he manages that based on the lengthy delays to the third book.

Ah, didn't know that about Rothfuss.

Doesn't matter how many books Lynch writes the indvidual books are still to light weight imo to draw in the big numbers like the epics do. Same for Butcher.

 

[Psylent]

When I mentioned Butcher I was referring to the Codex series because I assumed the conversation was about epic fantasy. The last Dresden book was #2 on the NYT list. It is entirely possible that Turn Coat will be #1.

Not including Paolini, only three new epic fantasy authors have made it on the NYT since 2000; Butcher (last book was 13th), Sanderson (21st), and Carey (30th). Judging by Rothfuss's sales he will debut on the list very strongly with his next book. Lynch has big internet buzz but I've seen no evidence that this has translated into big sales. Butcher is supposedly wrapping up the Codex with book six after which he won't be writing Epic fantasy for a while so I doubt it will be him. If Carey was going to break out she would have done it already. Sanderson is in a good position. He's only been publishing four years and yet he's in the middle of the NYT list and he's set to finish off the WoT. He's clearly got some heat and he;s going to do very well for himself. The thing I don't know is what his feature plans are. As Chris W has pointed out long, fat series seem to be the ones that generate lots of sales in the epic fantasy subgenre. At this point I think Rothfuss has the best shot at being the new Jordan/Goodkind.

 

[mjolnir]

Well, as long as we're playing mad prophet...

If we're sticking strictly to epic fantasy then I can agree about Butcher. Codex Alera sells very, very well, but not NYT number 1 kind of well, and as has been pointed out he's apparently wrapping it with the next book. As to lightness ... I haven't read them and can't say. Butcher's urban fantasy is a very separate ball game.

Lynch seems to be much like Abercrombie in that he has an avid fanbase on the fantasy-related fastnesses of teh intarnets but hasn't managed to quite pull it over into the bookstores yet. So far as each book being too light, if the rest of the series continues in the strictly caper-based style I could see this, but evidently The Republic of Thieves is to be a much more complicated novel. I would, at the least, reserve judgment until / if we see that book. Besides, it could be that the sorts of things which are going to draw in a vast fanbase are not the same now as they were ten or fifteen years ago. The Malazan Book of the Fallen, despite it's many friends, has not attracted such a fanbase regardless of it's sprawling, multistranded nature. Perhaps a series of snappier, more singularly focused tales about an iconic hero like Locke Lamora or Harry Dresden is what's going to form the new fanbase par excellence. Dresden's sales numbers would certainly indicate that this may be true, though I'm not sure if there's a thriving fan community on the WoT scale or if the books just sell like hotcakes.

For the moment, though, I'm inclined to agree with Werthead: Patrick Rothfuss appears to be the man. The Name of the Wind got on the NYT bestseller list with it's paperback reprint; getting on the list first time of asking is pretty amazing for a debut genre author from what I understand. Jordan, Goodkind, Martin; none of them managed this, [though times were different then.] As for him not making it writing trilogies, I'd agree if The Name of the Wind had not done so extraordinarily well. Oh, and I don't doubt that the plan is for Rothfuss to write a second trilogy about Kvothe in the present, but has anybody actually heard him say so? I ask only because the only place I've heard this stated is by the publisher, back when they were hyping The Name of the Wind with their golden words of the promised land.

As Silent says, Sanderson's chances may be dependent on what he intends to do next. I've seen a couple of blog entries where he has, in fact, talked about possibly launching into something fairly extensive after A Memory of Light. It seems he does have a series of epic size and breadth somewhere in the pipeline, and what with being chosen to finish WoT I put his chances fairly high.
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Subaru Impreza Wrx Wrp10 Specifications

 

[Werthead]

Ah, didn't know that about Rothfuss.

Doesn't matter how many books Lynch writes the indvidual books are still to light weight imo to draw in the big numbers like the epics do. Same for Butcher.

As others have indicated, Lynch's story supposedly is a big, large-canvas epic fantasy, but we are being eased into it and the big stuff kicks off properly in Books 3 or 4 after a lighter intro. Interesting to see if that is true or where he goes with that.

The Malazan Book of the Fallen, despite it's many friends, has not attracted such a fanbase regardless of it's sprawling, multistranded nature.

Agreed. Eight novels and nine years into the series, and five years into its US publishing, with total sales still less than half a million, and I'm going to bet strongly most of those are still in the European market. Tor may be banking on him being a slow grower in the future and he has a strong name presence online, but I think we're probably past the point of likely mass break-out for him. His books are just too inaccessible for the casual reader. Erikson himself sometimes seems fine with this (he's still doing much better than most fantasy authors) and at others rants about it.

Interestingly, Scott Bakker related a discussion he had with Erikson in which both authors decided that their 'next' series would start out slower and less insane than their prior ones to ease the audience in gradually. If Bakker meant Aspect-Emperor, then he has succeeded. It was unclear if Erikson meant the Anomander Rake trilogy or his first non-Malazan fantasy work, which is likely still a decade or more away. It'll be fun to see how that pans out.

I wouldn't put Daniel Abraham out of the running. His Long Price Quartet has been a slow, building success with excellent reviews and critical acclaim, but hasn't had the immediate impact that Lynch, Abercrombie or, by a much greater margin, Rothfuss had. However, the fact that his next series will be a longer epic fantasy with much thicker individual volumes in the Jordan/Martin mould and Tor and Tom Doherty are really interested in it suggests that he could achieve a bigger success in the future. Out of all the prospective candidates discussed in this thread so far, I would rank Abraham as probably the best actual writer, so if he attaches that skill to the epic/fat fantasy subgenre, the result could be impressive.

And don't rule out Abercrombie either. His initial UK success was solid but unspectacular. That quickly changed with Last Argument being the #1 book on Amazon.co.uk for several days, selling out its 16,000 initial hardcover/tradeback print run in the UK and Blade Itself being Pyr's biggest-selling debut novel ever. Once he sells out, sticks the maps in and starts regurgitating endless novels about Logen's badassery, the green should start rolling in

 

[Davis Ashura]

What about Dan Simmons. He's already achieved quite a lot in his career. I'm not sure how well he sells, but his last book, The Terror was prominently featured in the mainstream fiction section of my local B&N. So, maybe he's breaking out of the ghetto. Anyway, if he succeeds and achieves mainstream success and then turned his hand to epic fantasy...

 

[ChrisW]

The last Dresden book was #2 on the NYT list. It is entirely possible that Turn Coat will be #1.

I had no idea he was that popular. I had hardly seen his name mentioned until a about a year and a half ago and since then everyone seems to be gushing about his Dresden novels. Was he a big thing on the Horror/urban fantasy scene before this and only just attracted mainstrean fantasy readers lately?

The only place in australia where i've actually scene his Dresden novels was in a Borders store. I've yet to see them in the other chain stores which is strange considering his popularity.

 

[Werthead]

I had no idea he was that popular. I had hardly seen his name mentioned until a about a year and a half ago and since then everyone seems to be gushing about his Dresden novels. Was he a big thing on the Horror/urban fantasy scene before this and only just attracted mainstrean fantasy readers lately?

The only place in australia where i've actually scene his Dresden novels was in a Borders store. I've yet to see them in the other chain stores which is strange considering his popularity.

Even though it failed to win a large enough audience to remain on air, the Dresden Files TV show did raise his profile considerably, notably in the US, and I've definitely seen his name and the books mentioned and appearing in bookstores more often since then.

 

[Lfex]

Agreed. Eight novels and nine years into the series, and five years into its US publishing, with total sales still less than half a million, and I'm going to bet strongly most of those are still in the European market. Tor may be banking on him being a slow grower in the future and he has a strong name presence online, but I think we're probably past the point of likely mass break-out for him. His books are just too inaccessible for the casual reader. Erikson himself sometimes seems fine with this (he's still doing much better than most fantasy authors) and at others rants about it.

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By European market you mean UK? If so, this number may be right, but even here in Poland total Erikson's sales easily exceed 50 thousands, and may even be close to 70. Considering that MBotF was published in many European countries, including Russia and Germany which have decidedly bigger markets than Poland, I wouldn't be surprised if translations alone had number of sales close to half a million, or perhaps even higher.

 

[Werthead]

The figure is from a 2006 announcement by Bantam which specified 250,000 sales. It is possible the series doubled in sales in the last two years compared to the prior seven, but it seems unlikely. It is possible that Bantam didn't have hard figures for foreign translations of the series and they may have been extrapolating from their own sales (which cover the UK, Canada and Australia).

 

[Psylent]

I had no idea he was that popular. I had hardly seen his name mentioned until a about a year and a half ago and since then everyone seems to be gushing about his Dresden novels. Was he a big thing on the Horror/urban fantasy scene before this and only just attracted mainstrean fantasy readers lately?

The only place in australia where i've actually scene his Dresden novels was in a Borders store. I've yet to see them in the other chain stores which is strange considering his popularity.

I've only been paying attention for the last two years, but I would assume he's been steadily growing with each book. I think most of the readers of this board pay very little attention to the Urban Fantasy/Paranormal Romance genre. I doubt they realize that UF/PR has had close to twice as many bestsellers this year as Epic Fantasy (once again NYT list centric). If I mentioned Sherrilyn Kenyon and Christine Feehan people wouldn't realize I was talking about two NYT #1 bestselling fantasy authors. A lot of the talk focuses on lesser known authors like Rachel Caine, Mike Carey, and Charlie Huston (who have never been on the NYT list).

 

[pockiiee]

I. I doubt they realize that UF/PR has had close to twice as many bestsellers this year as Epic Fantasy (once again NYT list centric). If I mentioned Sherrilyn Kenyon and Christine Feehan people wouldn't realize I was talking about two NYT #1 bestselling fantasy authors. .

That's a really interesting fact Psylent. And I think the trend is only going to get stronger - “True Blood,” the HBO series based on Charlaine Harris' Southern Vampire books is, according to the New York Times :“steadily increased in stature to become the cable network’s most popular series since ‘The Sopranos’ and ‘Sex and the City,’” (http://tvdecoder.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/11/23/true-blood-shows-ratings-growth-for-hbo/) A lot of friends/colleagues who I know that aren't really into fantasy of any kind have gone out to buy these books after the series aired.


I, for one, like some of the books in the genre, The Dresden files are fun, and The Charlaine Harris books are a guilty pleasure of mine as well. However I tried reading Sherrilyn Kenyon - HEAVY emphasis on the erotic/steamy romance in my opinion, not on plot, character - written like a bodice-ripping romance novel, which I guess essentially it is so I couldn't imagine any guys liking it - very much aimed at women.

So, could the next big seller be one of these ladies? Queens rather than kings or "fantasy"? Or do they not fit the genre according to the original post?

With regards to the original question, I like Scott Lynch a lot right now, enough to go out any buy all he's written, which was the first reaction I had with Jordan - but I've just started his first book. No other ideas.

 

[ChrisW]

So, could the next big seller be one of these ladies? Queens rather than kings or "fantasy"? Or do they not fit the genre according to the original post?

I don't know. Do UF/PR readers consider themselves to be reading fantasy in the fantasy genre or do they consider themselves to be in there own seperate genre? Do they share the same shelf space? I know here in Aus they don't.