Writers and their "friends"

Did you like these stories?

I did like the stories but the style was too bland. Like you wouldn't want your parents to read something controversional knowing you are the author. It's like watching adult video together. Uncomfortable. That was the main problem.
 
When I wrote my historical novel my wife critiqued it and did not use any cotton wool. I was sensitive then and convinced of my genius so tended to push back. Fortunately I had enough sense to think about her criticisms and see the truth in at least some of them.

That said, I much prefer getting critiqued by people who are not immediate entourage and are experienced swimmers in the genre (low bow). We all crave praise but praise is pretty useless. I much prefer no-holds-barred criticism from people who have read a lot of books in that field and are consequently difficult to please. ;)

A negative criticism always hurts but it is so, so useful.
 
That said, I much prefer getting critiqued by people who are not immediate entourage and are experienced swimmers in the genre (low bow).

I totally agree with you but there is a little big problem with historical criticism. Historians do not agree with each other a lot. For example literally anything you'll write about medieval weapon and warfare will spark an impetuous discussion and criticism. And trying to be accurate can harm the entire story making it unreadable. Imagine if Tolkien wrote LoTR describing how Frodo and Sam survived in the wilderness building traps, fishing and building shelters. And a lot of people do actually criticize LoTR because there is no way two hobbits would survive such a journey.

Another great example is "Witcher" by A. Sapkowski. When his first novel was published in Poland he actually received a lot of criticism like "woman in medieval times did not wear silk lingerie". Imagine if he would listen to critics :)
 
I totally agree with you but there is a little big problem with historical criticism. Historians do not agree with each other a lot. For example literally anything you'll write about medieval weapon and warfare will spark an impetuous discussion and criticism. And trying to be accurate can harm the entire story making it unreadable. Imagine if Tolkien wrote LoTR describing how Frodo and Sam survived in the wilderness building traps, fishing and building shelters. And a lot of people do actually criticize LoTR because there is no way two hobbits would survive such a journey.

Another great example is "Witcher" by A. Sapkowski. When his first novel was published in Poland he actually received a lot of criticism like "woman in medieval times did not wear silk lingerie". Imagine if he would listen to critics :)

With my historical novel it wasn't that much of a problem since I chose an obscure period - Roman Gaul at the end of the 5th century. I did get some useful technical crits, like the fact that horsemen didn't yet use stirrups and Roman cataphracts were no longer around in the Western Empire. But by and large I just did the research on my own and built the world from scratch and people seemed quite happy with it. SF is another ball game altogether - every possible permutation of the genre has been thoroughly explored already so everything has a high standard bar. I can suppose that a Roman Field army in 486 still used plumbarii, but I need to be a lot more careful about technical details in hard SF - there is no GPS on Mars for example. You would use a NAV or inertial NAV to find out where you are.

But what seems to interest readers the most is being able to relate to the characters and the visual reality (if I can put it that way) of their world. And obviously a strong and credible storyline. Technical accuracy is not such a big deal.
 
Technical accuracy is not such a big deal.

I think writer only need to follow few basic rules like "no potatoes in medieval Europe", "no stirrups in ancient Rome", "no dinasours during prehistoric time". One of my favorite novels is "Shogun" and its full of inaccuracies and stereotypes. Still fun to read and a great introduction to Japanese history.
 
That's a good point, @Fish Owl. If we are always trying to please our friends and family, then we are not necessarily pleasing ourselves (no, not in the way you are thinking - get your mind out of the gutter!). Which is, first and foremost. Because if the writer doesn't enjoy her own stories, how can she ever find an audience that will?

[EDIT: Dope - I missed a bunch of other posts after Fish Owl's first post...]
 
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praise is pretty useless
(double gasp!)

Oh my gonads. For me, this is soooo untrue.

My inner critic is so severe, if I did not get some (need only be minor) outside praise, I would have long ago abandoned trying to write. (Though I'm sure the need to write would eat at my soul.)

That's one thing I recognized very early on during my very first writing class. I noticed the instructor praised every single student's work, even if it was the worst thing. She always found something positive to say about someone's story (there was always something).

And it mattered. It definitely mattered to me. If she hadn't pointed out the things right in what I was doing, I would never have steered myself in that direction.
 
(double gasp!)

Oh my gonads. For me, this is soooo untrue.

My inner critic is so severe, if I did not get some (need only be minor) outside praise, I would have long ago abandoned trying to write. (Though I'm sure the need to write would eat at my soul.)

That's one thing I recognized very early on during my very first writing class. I noticed the instructor praised every single student's work, even if it was the worst thing. She always found something positive to say about someone's story (there was always something).

And it mattered. It definitely mattered to me. If she hadn't pointed out the things right in what I was doing, I would never have steered myself in that direction.
I totally agree with this. While authors need that dose of heavy criticism, we're also human.
 
And it mattered. It definitely mattered to me. If she hadn't pointed out the things right in what I was doing, I would never have steered myself in that direction.

I'm not a native English speaker and write my stories in Russian so far. I can tell you that in Russian writers community praise is something very rare and usually come from very random people. If you participate in some kind of writers contest or seminar you will receive a lot of harsh criticism and scolding with little to no praise. It is common to scold story even if you like it. Criticism is considered polite while praise is useless.


I must say I got really tired of hearing that my stories are worthless, stupid, and not original and so on. And began to question myself why I even bother to post them if I only hear how bad they are.

So I agree. Writer need to hear good feedback not only from readers but from critics and professionals also.
 
Oh my gonads. For me, this is soooo untrue.

Don't get me wrong. To know that people out there appreciate one's stories is a great encouragement. But when it comes to whipping a story into shape then the best help is a blunt and honest critique. One has so many blind spots that others pick up on instantly, and they can often glimpse the story one is trying to write, and help to get it properly born.
 
The one thing that bothers me in this thread is that Nila has gonads.

On a more serious note, I do not think the human taste in books follows normal distribution patterns. We can assume most books will be average, but I do not think this is the case, because taste wise people go for what confirms their bias, things they love and hate. If anything it's a double-humped camel, but there are too few bins in the histogram, which can make it more difficult to spot patterns. Also, I am not sure I've deciphered the formula for what makes books successful in terms of their rating.

Igor
 
The one thing that bothers me in this thread is that Nila has gonads.
Ahem. Everyone has gonads.

Actually...since I'm going through peri-menopause...does that mean I'm sans-gonads?!

From now on, I'll have to say, "Oh my, sans-gonads!"

Hmm...just doesn't have the same effect. :(
 
Depends on which circle of friends and which family members.
Let me explain.
My husband has never read any of my work, and I doubt he ever will. It's not that he doesn't support me. He does, drives me to local conventions, puts up with me vanishing to three or four day ones, but he won't read my work. He says it is a choice he has made, because, and I see his point, if he says something critical, he knows I would get defensive, we would most likely argue each point and I would most likely stop writing, and that he does not want me to do.
My girls on the other hand do read my work, do tell me what they think and we don't argue, I accept their opinion.
My old, as in non writing circle of friends and other family members often think I am a bit strange and view my writing as a long term hobby and being published is a nice thing for me.
Friends I have met through my writing, on forums, at Conventions are very supportive, and we speak the same language and have the same goals and fears, which helps in many ways.
The thing is writing is something I do, because I can do it.
 
Family members have always been very supportive of the books themselves, once they are written. They do read them. Even the family members who almost never read fiction feel they somehow owe it to me to struggle through my books -- I'd rather they didn't of course, because I didn't do it to torture them, but it would be ungrateful to say so. And those who are avid readers (like my husband) have read each of them many times.

But the writing process ... not really. If I am writing, they get quite put out if I don't drop what I am doing to immediately pay attention to them. They don't even like to wait until I have finished typing a sentence I am working on. My children are no longer children, so you might think they would respect the thing I do to produce the books that some of them like very well, but nope, not the case at all. I think that until a book is published it doesn't seem real to them, and what I do doesn't seem like a real job.
 

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