Writing Topics for Discussion

[RedMage]

Okay, this is a discussion forum. So why am I posting about "discussion topics"? Why not just post a thread on a specific topic?

Thank you for asking! Those who've been on the forum the past month or so have seen a few different threads from me, all linking to YouTube vids from editors and other storytellers and people who work in publishing or are just, generally members of the worldwide writing community. Friends and I have discussed the occasional vid over the years, but I recently found a few that really interested me and helped me improve my writing--specifically, I took a well polished, 2900 word short story and gave it a real mirror shine by making sentence level edits throughout that vastly improved the writing quality and reduced the length by over 300 words so I could submit to a contest. I want to share that information with you! And, hopefully, discuss the videos with you and, thereby, gain a further insight and understanding of the particular topic.

All that said, are there any specific writing topics that you are interested in learning about? @Stanley Steamboy told me today of an interest in plotting. So, I found a series of vids and posted them in the Plotting Novels thread. Then I thought, hey! we all have specific questions and, if no particular question at this moment, then we all definitely have a general interests in ____ writing-related thing. That's why I'm posting this thread.

What are your questions? What are your general interests? I'd like to post 1 topic each week, though if there's enough topics we can definitely increase the frequency. Also, if you find some piece of writing advice or other thing related to writing, editing, publishing--anything having to do with writing or the business of writing--and you would like to share, please do! Post your own thread, in your own time. I'd love to join it. If you'd rather have me, or others find something, ask us here. That's what this thread is for.

 

[TheSeveredWorldNovels]

Marketing books and writing. I want to know how to build an effective pipeline as that seems like the hardest part.

 

[RedMage]

Marketing books and writing. I want to know how to build an effective pipeline as that seems like the hardest part.

Great idea. I honestly know nothing at all about that and have no experience whatsoever. A week's research by me won't get you what you need. But maybe some of our other authors would be willing to start a thread on the topic, maybe @N. E. White or @kmtolan.

 

[TheSeveredWorldNovels]

Great idea. I honestly know nothing at all about that and have no experience whatsoever. A week's research by me won't get you what you need. But maybe some of our other authors would be willing to start a thread on the topic, maybe @N. E. White or @kmtolan.

I bet we could have a competition about which one of us knows less about the subject. I'm not saying I would win, but I think I could at least be a contender.

 

[kmtolan]

Effective pipeline. Not sure there is one for most of us, but here's a list that might help, gleaned from my experience over the years with both a small publisher and now self pubbing.

1. Social media a must. Author's website to start. I also use Facebook. There's more media out there I haven't tried like Tiktok for videos. You should have this set up before the first book release.
2. Don't rely on a publisher if you have one when it comes to marketing. Business cards, e-signatures with your website URL. Get out there.
3. If you are genre (SF/F/Horror/Para) then consider selling at comic cons and other like venues. This is where the vast majority of my sales happen. There you can stand out.
4. Get a damn good cover. Not AI, either. People absolutely judge a book by it's cover.
For self pubbers, 5-8
5. KDP for Amazon distribution. Don't hold your breath for sales. You're in a big bushel and some of those apples are rotten. I've gotten few sales through Amazon, even when I was with a publisher. This is my current distributor so someone can buy one of my books if they want to go online.
6. Draft2Digital is you want to expand beyond Amazon. I shuttered my account due to zero sales over the year and them wanting a fee if you didn't sell an appreciable amount.
7. Ingram if you want to go to bookstores or libraries and ask to be put on a shelf. You'll also be up for a hefty $150 ISBN fee per book from Bowker who holds a monopoly on US registrations. And knows it. Note that getting distributed is all on you for brick stores. Ingram only distributes on line as far as I can tell.
8. Other printers who may print in bulk can lower your costs. Also there's Lulu but they're more expensive than Amazon (good customer service, though).
9. Marketing via advertisements. Don't bother. Your return on investment is minimal. Didn't do this myself but watched others and listened to the results. Same thing goes for marketing "services". In the past, some would pile on fake reviews on Amazon but I don't know if that scheme works anymore. Unethical as hell in any case.
10. Contests are a possibility if you do your homework to ensure they're reputable and not just another scam to get your entrance fee to obscurity. Did see sales when I was a finalist in the old Epic Ebook Awards.

There are other ways and methods to be sure. Some may pop up on this thread, hopefully. For me, over eighteen years and 13 novels, there's not been much of a silver bullet. No efficient pipeline. Just hard work sprinkled with dumb luck.

 

[TheSeveredWorldNovels]

Effective pipeline. Not sure there is one for most of us, but here's a list that might help, gleaned from my experience over the years with both a small publisher and now self pubbing.

1. Social media a must. Author's website to start. I also use Facebook. There's more media out there I haven't tried like Tiktok for videos. You should have this set up before the first book release.
2. Don't rely on a publisher if you have one when it comes to marketing. Business cards, e-signatures with your website URL. Get out there.
3. If you are genre (SF/F/Horror/Para) then consider selling at comic cons and other like venues. This is where the vast majority of my sales happen. There you can stand out.
4. Get a damn good cover. Not AI, either. People absolutely judge a book by it's cover.
For self pubbers, 5-8
5. KDP for Amazon distribution. Don't hold your breath for sales. You're in a big bushel and some of those apples are rotten. I've gotten few sales through Amazon, even when I was with a publisher. This is my current distributor so someone can buy one of my books if they want to go online.
6. Draft2Digital is you want to expand beyond Amazon. I shuttered my account due to zero sales over the year and them wanting a fee if you didn't sell an appreciable amount.
7. Ingram if you want to go to bookstores or libraries and ask to be put on a shelf. You'll also be up for a hefty $150 ISBN fee per book from Bowker who holds a monopoly on US registrations. And knows it. Note that getting distributed is all on you for brick stores. Ingram only distributes on line as far as I can tell.
8. Other printers who may print in bulk can lower your costs. Also there's Lulu but they're more expensive than Amazon (good customer service, though).
9. Marketing via advertisements. Don't bother. Your return on investment is minimal. Didn't do this myself but watched others and listened to the results. Same thing goes for marketing "services". In the past, some would pile on fake reviews on Amazon but I don't know if that scheme works anymore. Unethical as hell in any case.
10. Contests are a possibility if you do your homework to ensure they're reputable and not just another scam to get your entrance fee to obscurity. Did see sales when I was a finalist in the old Epic Ebook Awards.

There are other ways and methods to be sure. Some may pop up on this thread, hopefully. For me, over eighteen years and 13 novels, there's not been much of a silver bullet. No efficient pipeline. Just hard work sprinkled with dumb luck.

I'm sad to see how many of these line up with what I already planned or was doing. That means it's an even tougher row to hoe than I thought (and I already thought it was gonna be hard).

I had never considered #3. Can it really generate enough revenue to cover the cost of getting in? I thought those events were really expensive? Or is it about investing in an audience?

The KDP observation is a bummer, too. I have Novellas I'm releasing on KDP as a discovery surface. Looks like that surface won't be driving discovery. Oh well. I guess I'll see what I have planned there through and then pause.

For #9, I heard from a marketing "expert" that you should invest advertising in building a social media audience and then use the audience to drive sales. Then again, I've paid ungodly sums for marketing "experts" and not had any of their advice ever produce a single cent of revenue.

 

[kmtolan]

I had never considered #3. Can it really generate enough revenue to cover the cost of getting in?

It's called 'making the table' when you earn enough to cover your entry fee. I rarely ran into a convention where I couldn't at least break even. To wet your whistle, I paid a hefty $425 for a table at Space Con in San Antonio. I made $1140 of which $855 were books. Of course, I was selling thirteen novels, including three series and folks would buy the series as a modest discount. Books were otherwise $15 each. So yes, covered the convention and resultant book order for replenishment. Not counted was the hotel stay and food. If you're wondering about the other $305 I made, it was from crafted figurines which help hold the line if book sales are weak. The average con usually costs around $250 - $300 and is smaller, but I can still bring in twice that amount in most cases. I purchase 'Artist Alley' tables which is less expensive than the professional booths but requires you make what you sell.

That's the rosy picture. I also had one huge convention, Houston's Comicpalooza, that didn't make the table for the first time in many years. The show is on the down slope, unfortunately, and yes, I won't be going back. You have to have your business hat on. "Exposure" can only get you so far, and it won't put food on the table.

If you want to consider a convention, and have little upfront money to prime the pump, I would suggest scouting around for the smaller conventions (around $250). Be outgoing (yeah, not a writer's strong point), and engage, engage, engage. Use your initial profits to improve your table with banners and such. If you get a good amount of money, remember there are more conventions waiting. It's hard at first financially, but not impossible if you aim for the smaller venues first.

I've been doing this since 2008. Roughly 90% of all sales were made this way and not through my publisher. Hell, I could start a thread on the subject as there are many lessons I learned along the way about selling at conventions.

 

[TheSeveredWorldNovels]

It's called 'making the table' when you earn enough to cover your entry fee. I rarely ran into a convention where I couldn't at least break even. To wet your whistle, I paid a hefty $425 for a table at Space Con in San Antonio. I made $1140 of which $855 were books. Of course, I was selling thirteen novels, including three series and folks would buy the series as a modest discount. Books were otherwise $15 each. So yes, covered the convention and resultant book order for replenishment. Not counted was the hotel stay and food. If you're wondering about the other $305 I made, it was from crafted figurines which help hold the line if book sales are weak. The average con usually costs around $250 - $300 and is smaller, but I can still bring in twice that amount in most cases. I purchase 'Artist Alley' tables which is less expensive than the professional booths but requires you make what you sell.

That's the rosy picture. I also had one huge convention, Houston's Comicpalooza, that didn't make the table for the first time in many years. The show is on the down slope, unfortunately, and yes, I won't be going back. You have to have your business hat on. "Exposure" can only get you so far, and it won't put food on the table.

If you want to consider a convention, and have little upfront money to prime the pump, I would suggest scouting around for the smaller conventions (around $250). Be outgoing (yeah, not a writer's strong point), and engage, engage, engage. Use your initial profits to improve your table with banners and such. If you get a good amount of money, remember there are more conventions waiting. It's hard at first financially, but not impossible if you aim for the smaller venues first.

I've been doing this since 2008. Roughly 90% of all sales were made this way and not through my publisher. Hell, I could start a thread on the subject as there are many lessons I learned along the way about selling at conventions.

Thank for this dose of reality. It's hard to imagine spending so much time away from my family. So I may have to adjust my expectations for these books.

 

[kmtolan]

Thank for this dose of reality. It's hard to imagine spending so much time away from my family. So I may have to adjust my expectations for these books.

Only two or three days isn't bad and wife teams up. Do local cons and craft shows. Bring family member if it's reasonable. A table usually comes with two entry tickets.

 

[TheSeveredWorldNovels]

Okay, this is a discussion forum. So why am I posting about "discussion topics"? Why not just post a thread on a specific topic?

Thank you for asking! Those who've been on the forum the past month or so have seen a few different threads from me, all linking to YouTube vids from editors and other storytellers and people who work in publishing or are just, generally members of the worldwide writing community. Friends and I have discussed the occasional vid over the years, but I recently found a few that really interested me and helped me improve my writing--specifically, I took a well polished, 2900 word short story and gave it a real mirror shine by making sentence level edits throughout that vastly improved the writing quality and reduced the length by over 300 words so I could submit to a contest. I want to share that information with you! And, hopefully, discuss the videos with you and, thereby, gain a further insight and understanding of the particular topic.

All that said, are there any specific writing topics that you are interested in learning about? @Stanley Steamboy told me today of an interest in plotting. So, I found a series of vids and posted them in the Plotting Novels thread. Then I thought, hey! we all have specific questions and, if no particular question at this moment, then we all definitely have a general interests in ____ writing-related thing. That's why I'm posting this thread.

What are your questions? What are your general interests? I'd like to post 1 topic each week, though if there's enough topics we can definitely increase the frequency. Also, if you find some piece of writing advice or other thing related to writing, editing, publishing--anything having to do with writing or the business of writing--and you would like to share, please do! Post your own thread, in your own time. I'd love to join it. If you'd rather have me, or others find something, ask us here. That's what this thread is for.

Here's another topic: How to recruit beta readers? I've been having a hard time with that. I tried on twitter and I got a couple dozen responses but they were all using "ai" to try to scam me. I tried on substack and got two of the same. If anyone has a "secret recipe" for getting people to take a free book and read it then give feedback, I would love to know what it is.

 

[RedMage]

Here's another topic: How to recruit beta readers? I've been having a hard time with that. I tried on twitter and I got a couple dozen responses but they were all using "ai" to try to scam me. I tried on substack and got two of the same. If anyone has a "secret recipe" for getting people to take a free book and read it then give feedback, I would love to know what it is.

I've been hearing about the scams and AI from a lot of authors right now. Lots of talk about that on Bsky and elsewhere. Authors like John Scalzi are being hit by scammers offering services for books that very author wrote and published already!

So, you're not alone.