2026 Motivation Thread

[Jonas Stark]

She's in a different time zone and an astonishingly fast reader, as someone who reads avidly. Her feedback has been really solid, and definitely not universal praise. If I could have done something better, she called it out. The only way for me to draft so quickly, though, was to take her thoughts into consideration as notes and keep moving on, saving some of the issues for the redraft/editing process.

She got interested in the series once I pitched it to her and when she started reading, she was in. This was the first time I had ever had someone reading almost as I was drafting. I really do believe that sustained me during some of those stretches around the 140k and 180k marks where I had walls I had to push past.

I owe her sushi and a drink next time I'm out her way lol

 

[RedMage]

How's it going everyone?

This is a motivation thread, but we mostly use it as an update/progress thread. Ages ago--back in @Jonas Stark's and my early days on the forum--we used it for word count tracking, racing ourselves and each other. We could definitely get back to that if anyone wants!

In the meantime, here's a bit of motivation for everyone, which I found just by googling "writing motivation quotes", so I hope it's legit:
Margaret Atwood said: "If I waited for perfection, I would never write a word."

So don't wait for perfection! That's what editing and revising is for. But you have to have something on the page already in order to edit and revise it. So get to writing!

---

Now, my update

I am plodding along with edits to Lake Proper, filling in the placeholders and finding better ways to introduce concepts and locations, as well as all the little typo corrections.

I'm also considering what my next project will be. I have a really fun far future scifi adventure that I hit a wall on earlier this summer--a small wall, but I couldn't figure out how to get over it. Then Lake Proper took off. On a whim this summer, I asked my crit site for help with my middle grade Christmas novel "The Santaland Affair". I received some surprisingly insightful advice which has changed my whole outlook on the story, leading me to really examine the structure and plan out a second draft to address a huge amount of unnecessary information and details. With Christmas coming sooner than later, I wonder if I shouldn't work on that. Both stories are at the drafting stage which I have, so far, found difficult to do with more than one book at a time.

 

[Jonas Stark]

How's it going everyone?

This is a motivation thread, but we mostly use it as an update/progress thread. Ages ago--back in @Jonas Stark's and my early days on the forum--we used it for word count tracking, racing ourselves and each other. We could definitely get back to that if anyone wants!

Ha! I remember these. Yeah, it was a cool way to measure up and see how you're doing. Of course, I won't be writing for a while at this point, but it'd be a neat thing to bring back if participation was high enough.

In the meantime, here's a bit of motivation for everyone, which I found just by googling "writing motivation quotes", so I hope it's legit:
Margaret Atwood said: "If I waited for perfection, I would never write a word."

Words that I live by. My drafts are fast, but far from perfect, because I completely threw out the compulsion to write and craft like an expert on the first pass, instead just trying to get the story down. I'll worry about craft later.

So don't wait for perfection! That's what editing and revising is for. But you have to have something on the page already in order to edit and revise it. So get to writing!

Yes! 100%

Now, my update

I am plodding along with edits to Lake Proper, filling in the placeholders and finding better ways to introduce concepts and locations, as well as all the little typo corrections.

Plodding is still movement!

I'm also considering what my next project will be. I have a really fun far future scifi adventure that I hit a wall on earlier this summer--a small wall, but I couldn't figure out how to get over it. Then Lake Proper took off. On a whim this summer, I asked my crit site for help with my middle grade Christmas novel "The Santaland Affair". I received some surprisingly insightful advice which has changed my whole outlook on the story, leading me to really examine the structure and plan out a second draft to address a huge amount of unnecessary information and details. With Christmas coming sooner than later, I wonder if I shouldn't work on that. Both stories are at the drafting stage which I have, so far, found difficult to do with more than one book at a time.

Sounds like you should work on it! If the creative mind wants to go somewhere, best to just follow and see what happens, in my experience.

"The Santaland Affair"

Again, these titles are chef's kiss.

 

[RedMage]

Ha! I remember these. Yeah, it was a cool way to measure up and see how you're doing. Of course, I won't be writing for a while at this point, but it'd be a neat thing to bring back if participation was high enough.

It would be fun! They were definitely motivational for me. Seeing the progress others were making helped me push through barrier, figure things out and answer questions I'd allowed myself to become bogged down with--that whole issue of spoiled for choice so you can't decide, or simply wanting to figure out all the repercussions before making the choice and, thereby, not make a choice at all. Ugh. That's where I am in the scifi...

Plodding is still movement!

Yeah, plodding is still movement. I got through two scenes today. Somewhere around (over?) 2k words. I might do another scene in a few hours. Next one is about 1,400 words and I prefer to get the whole scene done at once.

One of my goals with Lake Proper--and the far future scifi novel--is to write short, concise scenes that focus primarily on plot, or character, or whatever. They do more than that, of course, but I'm working on my pacing and finding things of "interest" to readers and not only myself. That's been a big problem for me, especially in the opening half dozen chapters of many of my novels. I'm enjoying these two stories and I'm hopeful they'll work well with readers. (btw, by "interest" I mean things that readers want to read about and not simply the character studies that I like to explore as a writer)

With these two stories, I'm also focusing on ending scenes and chapters with little cliffhangers, to force readers to turn the page to find out what happens next. Not every scene has a Bang! at the end, or someone knocking at the door or whatnot. But, in those, I intend either the full content of the scene or the narrative up to that point to lead readers to go right into the next scene. I've unintentionally written some stories in the past that are structured this way but, like I said, they've been unintentional and hit or miss in these ways. Now I'm trying to do it intentionally.

Sounds like you should work on it! If the creative mind wants to go somewhere, best to just follow and see what happens, in my experience.

"The Santaland Affair"

Again, these titles are chef's kiss.

Thanks, Jonas! We'll see. I still have a few days of work on Lake Proper to do before I can commit to the next thing.

If you think that's good, then what do you think of this?

• The Santaland Affair is the first book in The Thorley Reeve Casebook series, an MG urban fantasy adventure series following middle school/12-14 yr old sleuths solving magic-related crimes in their inner city neighborhood and combating an international cabal of evil sorcerers.
  
  
• The scifi's title is The Relics of Jove, the first in a trilogy or maybe longer series for adults set in the decade after the Great Solar War (World War I in space) where the Empire of Jupiter (Jove) played the role of Imperial Germany. Follows the overthrown emperor's two, 20-something yr old daughters, one of whom is a Beam Me Up Scotty engineer and ship designer, and the other a bad ass space adventurer who is bored out of her mind with their new civilian lives (complete with fake IDs).
  
  In Relics, they receive a ransom letter for an old childhood friend who is rather danger prone and now being held hostage on the moons of another planet that is suffering a civil war. With no help from the government of the new Jovian Republic, they take the spaceworthy ship Engineer Sis has designed and built to rescue him and have lots of adventures along the way--constant roadblocks, things don't go quite to plan, accidents, etc. that they have to deal with and figure out. Motive for saving this guy? First, he's a very good childhood friend and they have almost none of those left. Secondly, Engineer Sis reveals he keeps introducing himself to people as the first love of the former heir to the throne (Adventurous Sis), which simply be cannot allow to stand. So, big/Adventurous Sis must rescue him in order to kill him herself (okay, not really, you know what she means). Btw, a "spaceworthy" ship does not also mean it is "habitable" or that every system is fully functional.

I enjoy writing YA and I'm taking a shine to MG since the pandemic. However, this spring I had to take a hard look at my writing and come to the decision that the Adult market might be the better place to focus my efforts. But now I have this advice on Santaland which totally changes things there and... I don't know anymore!

 

[Jonas Stark]

It would be fun! They were definitely motivational for me. Seeing the progress others were making helped me push through barrier, figure things out and answer questions I'd allowed myself to become bogged down with--that whole issue of spoiled for choice so you can't decide, or simply wanting to figure out all the repercussions before making the choice and, thereby, not make a choice at all. Ugh. That's where I am in the scifi...

Do you mean like a choice in what your characters will do? Or something with the plot? One thing that kinda helped me a couple books back was that I had the character make a tough choice (one I wrestled with as an author) and only a couple chapters later did I realize that there was a fourth angle I hadn't considered. Instead of going back and rewriting, I had my character discover the hard way that there was a fourth choice, but the door is closed and he has to make do with the choices he's made.

Over the years, I have learned to love writing within the constraints, even the ones I created myself by having a character make a choice. That's where the true drama is, if you ask me.

Yeah, plodding is still movement. I got through two scenes today. Somewhere around (over?) 2k words. I might do another scene in a few hours. Next one is about 1,400 words and I prefer to get the whole scene done at once.

2k words is definitely not plodding. Well done!

I won't tell you not to do 1400 words at once...I'd be a hypocrite. Do it

One of my goals with Lake Proper--and the far future scifi novel--is to write short, concise scenes that focus primarily on plot, or character, or whatever. They do more than that, of course, but I'm working on my pacing and finding things of "interest" to readers and not only myself. That's been a big problem for me, especially in the opening half dozen chapters of many of my novels. I'm enjoying these two stories and I'm hopeful they'll work well with readers. (btw, by "interest" I mean things that readers want to read about and not simply the character studies that I like to explore as a writer)

Ohhhhhhh! I totally understand this itch. Sometimes, I'll do my character explorations off page and I love it...spares the reader, but gives everything that "lived in" texture.

With these two stories, I'm also focusing on ending scenes and chapters with little cliffhangers, to force readers to turn the page to find out what happens next. Not every scene has a Bang! at the end, or someone knocking at the door or whatnot. But, in those, I intend either the full content of the scene or the narrative up to that point to lead readers to go right into the next scene. I've unintentionally written some stories in the past that are structured this way but, like I said, they've been unintentional and hit or miss in these ways. Now I'm trying to do it intentionally.

That's a great evolution in your writing. Do you find yourself structuring it, laying it out beforehand, or is the intentionality happening as you write?

Thanks, Jonas! We'll see. I still have a few days of work on Lake Proper to do before I can commit to the next thing.

If you think that's good, then what do you think of this?

• The Santaland Affair is the first book in The Thorley Reeve Casebook series, an MG urban fantasy adventure series following middle school/12-14 yr old sleuths solving magic-related crimes in their inner city neighborhood and combating an international cabal of evil sorcerers.

This goes pretty hard as the youth would say.

• The scifi's title is The Relics of Jove, the first in a trilogy or maybe longer series for adults set in the decade after the Great Solar War (World War I in space) where the Empire of Jupiter (Jove) played the role of Imperial Germany. Follows the overthrown emperor's two, 20-something yr old daughters, one of whom is a Beam Me Up Scotty engineer and ship designer, and the other a bad ass space adventurer who is bored out of her mind with their new civilian lives (complete with fake IDs).

As a former soldier who went overseas a handful of times, I can tell you that this is a real thing, and something a lot of people like me would connect with. Very cool premise...answering that one question: what happens after the war?

• In Relics, they receive a ransom letter for an old childhood friend who is rather danger prone and now being held hostage on the moons of another planet that is suffering a civil war. With no help from the government of the new Jovian Republic, they take the spaceworthy ship Engineer Sis has designed and built to rescue him and have lots of adventures along the way--constant roadblocks, things don't go quite to plan, accidents, etc. that they have to deal with and figure out. Motive for saving this guy? First, he's a very good childhood friend and they have almost none of those left. Secondly, Engineer Sis reveals he keeps introducing himself to people as the first love of the former heir to the throne (Adventurous Sis), which simply be cannot allow to stand. So, big/Adventurous Sis must rescue him in order to kill him herself (okay, not really, you know what she means). Btw, a "spaceworthy" ship does not also mean it is "habitable" or that every system is fully functional.

This is a strong premise. I got a nice laugh out of Adventurous Sis' motivations there lol

I enjoy writing YA and I'm taking a shine to MG since the pandemic. However, this spring I had to take a hard look at my writing and come to the decision that the Adult market might be the better place to focus my efforts. But now I have this advice on Santaland which totally changes things there and... I don't know anymore!

Ahhhhhh, you have to go with your heart...I think? I say this as I set down the series with Lyetuna in it to work on the more commercially viable breakout series. Maybe, it's a matter of banging out the one that's better for the market, but leaving time for your passion. I'm with you on kinda shrugging about this one. If you ever find a solution that you can live with, I'd love to know about it!

 

[STEKI]

Been on a pretty long vacation at almost 2 weeks. Almost no internet access. Had a lot of realizations and magical moments that would translate well in paper. As RedMage may remember I uh... of course didn't write anything down.

All in all, it sounds small. I feel refreshed, inspired, but sitting down is a bit hard to do yet? Must have done only 1.2k words since i came back yesterday.

I'll do my best putting a few of my worries as follows.

On the one hand I've had one reader who is more casual, tell me that I am too verbose and dropped the completed book somewhere in its 1/4th of the way. I suspect that a few others did this also. On the other hand another reader who is more experienced and well read told me that it is actually great, praise all around and striking a very fine point of being referential of other media while having its own voice and a few more technical things. Which was my goal from the start.

Fair feedback is good all in all. Problem here is that this dense/ verbose/ detailed way I write is deliberate because of the way magic works itself into realism and the various odd psycho-logical ways the characters think at times. In a way, the point of the prose is to be an intermediary between magical realism and sci-fi as a bridge that unloads colours and textures into the reader in order to reference these bulky paragraphs later into much smaller events.

In a way, the setup is kenophobic and the payoff is minimalistic. This gives me the option of having both a slow pace when needed in some plot-point-downtime and then to rapidly accelerate when there is change, action.

I mean... it does work. It is just that it is hard for the reader and the last thing I want to do is to make my writing difficult for anyone. I don't think that hard works are better, I don't have to prove my skill or talent in long-winded sentences, but then again I don't think that complicated works should also be simple. I like the technical challenge. This needs refinement on my side.

So, I took into writing another book on the same universe, same rules applying. Except this one is more grounded and shorter. The characters' focus falls on eachother mostly, the action is centered strictly around burglary and sneaking. It has some smut it in as an expression of love and the beauty of the human body while tiptoeing around thievery, sex, gymnastics, caving, yoga and theocratic cyberpunk.

I try to mediate the balance between complexity and simplicity by going into themes of everyday stuff that the readers comprehend. I also keep the sci-fi bulk and the worldbuilding at a minimum similarly to what you get from the narrative at the old Thief games for example. This plays into how powerless these characters are.

Goes well. Chapters sit between 1k and 2k words on average. At... 50k words, seems to me like there is only room to reach 70 and then I'll just try to push this one for publishing.

Now I have no idea who would accept a project like this (including the fact that it should be Adult rated?), but girlfriend (who is the beta reader here [but not a beta reader of the previous project]) suggest that this does read like YA? I don't think I've read any YA at all, unless maybe Dune falls on this category?

Anyways, when the time comes I'll be back to ask for some advice.

My biggest success this summer was that I randomly figured out that what I write is essentially theocratic cyberpunk. And despite hating any and all labels, I really really really like this one.

 

[RedMage]

Do you mean like a choice in what your characters will do? Or something with the plot?

Yes, and no. What the characters should do, or where the plot should go. With Lake Proper, I got stuck on the tone of the story, and how that affected the plot. I let that hold me up for weeks, maybe over a month. Same with the story's magic system--how does it work? What can they do? What can they not do? Are there limitations and/or costs? Sometimes it's just spoiled for choice. Other times, it's an inability, an unwillingness to decide between two options.

That's a great evolution in your writing. Do you find yourself structuring it, laying it out beforehand, or is the intentionality happening as you write?

I'm an outliner, so I plan it beforehand. But it was also an organic process. I went into it with this plan, conceived of the story structure in this way, which kept me from having to consciously think about it while outlining individual scenes and chapters, so I didn't have to cut myself off or add in scene or chapter breaks at any point.

This is a strong premise. I got a nice laugh out of Adventurous Sis' motivations there lol

Ahhhhhh, you have to go with your heart...I think? I say this as I set down the series with Lyetuna in it to work on the more commercially viable breakout series. Maybe, it's a matter of banging out the one that's better for the market, but leaving time for your passion. I'm with you on kinda shrugging about this one. If you ever find a solution that you can live with, I'd love to know about it!

Oh good! That's my goal with Relics. A fun story with a journey readers will enjoy.

I've remembered that I'm only about halfway through plotting the new draft for Santaland. So maybe I'll work on the Relics draft and the Santaland Draft 2 outline at the same time. I did that last summer with other projects. It's not as effective as devoting all my time to one story, but progress is made on more than one front.

 

[RedMage]

Been on a pretty long vacation at almost 2 weeks. Almost no internet access. Had a lot of realizations and magical moments that would translate well in paper. As RedMage may remember I uh... of course didn't write anything down.

All in all, it sounds small. I feel refreshed, inspired, but sitting down is a bit hard to do yet? Must have done only 1.2k words since i came back yesterday.

Welcome back! It can be hard to get back into the groove, even if you were going strong before the time off.

Not every story is for every reader. Some people like higher reading levels and feel anything lower than that level is too hard or too simple (say, older teens vs college grad vs younger teen). For instance, I like the concepts of a large number of middle grade (MG) fantasy and scifi. However, the execution, the story itself, is often written at or plays out at a level too young for me--because I'm a 40 year old adult! LOL. Of course it can be too simple and straightforward. Other MG books (that is, their authors) do a wonderful job of writing a story that's entertaining and accessible to their target audience of 10 - 14 year old kids, but also entertaining to adults.

In short, don't let that reader get to you. It's just not a story for them. But if they're a friend, keep talking to them. You may have another story in the future that is right for them--I've experienced that with my own friends. Supportive of me in my writing, but they don't like my stories themselves. Then I had one that they loved and suddenly they're into some of the others as well, as they can see them in new ways.

Theocratic cyberpunk? I'm not into cyberpunk, but that mashup sounds interesting. I'll definitely be talking with friends who are fans of cyberpunk

As for Adult or YA, I've learned from former members here at SFFWorld that those are market categories rather than genres. However, people often treat "adult" as a market (for readers 18+ and even older teens), but they treat YA as a genre like fantasy, scifi, mystery, romance, cyberpunk, etc. I even see that in sites like Duotrope which lists various story magazines, anthologies and so on for authors to submit to. I'd say that your girlfriend may find your voice and writing style with word choices and plotting and such in that story to be similar to YA books she's read. That doesn't mean it is YA.

Also, Adult does not equal blood, swearing and sex. YA does not equal the lack of those things. The only requirement for YA is that it's primary protagonist (maybe the majority of them) is a teenager. Adult market stories may have protagonists of any age. Further, like Adult books, YA has a large range of narrative styles and tone. Some are very clean and family friendly. Others deal with or feature sex, drug or alcohol or physical abuse that's shown in explicit detail, and other topics that many cultures consider to be very adult. That can include deep explorations of philosophy and religious principles.

So, again, don't let the feedback get you down.

 

[Jonas Stark]

Yes, and no. What the characters should do, or where the plot should go. With Lake Proper, I got stuck on the tone of the story, and how that affected the plot. I let that hold me up for weeks, maybe over a month. Same with the story's magic system--how does it work? What can they do? What can they not do? Are there limitations and/or costs? Sometimes it's just spoiled for choice. Other times, it's an inability, an unwillingness to decide between two options.

I actually enjoy this kind of tension as a writer. I feel like some of my best stuff comes from having to make these choices, because if I'm having a hard time with it as a writer, it's usually because it's a difficult intersection in the story for the characters, even if deceptively so. And again, all that nougat-y drama. Love it.

I'm an outliner, so I plan it beforehand. But it was also an organic process. I went into it with this plan, conceived of the story structure in this way, which kept me from having to consciously think about it while outlining individual scenes and chapters, so I didn't have to cut myself off or add in scene or chapter breaks at any point.

This right here. Same. Do you find yourself having to violate your outline sometimes? For example, with Lyetuna, I had what could be considered 23 different scenes/plotlines and I probably wound up striking about 3-4 of them and adding a few more on the fly to flesh out otherwise static beats.

Oh good! That's my goal with Relics. A fun story with a journey readers will enjoy.

I've remembered that I'm only about halfway through plotting the new draft for Santaland. So maybe I'll work on the Relics draft and the Santaland Draft 2 outline at the same time. I did that last summer with other projects. It's not as effective as devoting all my time to one story, but progress is made on more than one front.

A reasonable course of action. Like you, I'm still figuring out how to move between projects. I still find myself thinking about the characters, plots, and themes associated with Lyetuna and Palm Crescent. Wish I could flip my brain to Operation Ten mode.

 

[RedMage]

I'll come back to answer Jonas' last post, but first:

Have you guys seen the new forum?! You gotta log into see it. Big things are happening!!

 

[RedMage]

I actually enjoy this kind of tension as a writer. I feel like some of my best stuff comes from having to make these choices, because if I'm having a hard time with it as a writer, it's usually because it's a difficult intersection in the story for the characters, even if deceptively so. And again, all that nougat-y drama. Love it.

I don't. And I may not have explained it well. It's the problem of "Where should I go on my vacation this year?" You've done all the places you really want to do, or they're out of your budget or you can't get enough time off work for them. There's a list and you (that is, I) cannot decide. This is a Me problem, Me trying to make decisions rather than the characters. Happens once or twice every story, if not more. It's part of the process and, yet...

This right here. Same. Do you find yourself having to violate your outline sometimes? For example, with Lyetuna, I had what could be considered 23 different scenes/plotlines and I probably wound up striking about 3-4 of them and adding a few more on the fly to flesh out otherwise static beats.

Of course! I outline to such a degree that I actually "pre-write" my stories. But even then, I change things when I write the actual draft, which is a process of mostly typing the pre-written version word for word. At least, until I hit a passage that no longer seems correct for the character or situation or accurate to the story so far. I outline to learn What happens in the story. I then pre-write to figure out How that happens. And I draft as a method of performing a first editing pass and to correct those ideas I thought were so great! in the moment but actually are not. Tangents and deviations from the outline happen mostly in the pre-writing stage, but they are infrequent by that point.

That process probably sounds w-aa-yyyy too involved, but it works for me. And I'll say this about it too: that's mostly my process for writing novels. My micro and flash fiction is often written in a single sitting, no outline or pre-writing. Short stories too, but the longer it is the more I need an outline. Though, the pre-writing seems to be just a thing for novels. So far.

A reasonable course of action. Like you, I'm still figuring out how to move between projects. I still find myself thinking about the characters, plots, and themes associated with Lyetuna and Palm Crescent. Wish I could flip my brain to Operation Ten mode.

Yeah. We're so close to our stories that we can't just set them down and never come back. There's a reason writers say their story is their baby.

As of tonight, I have 4 scenes left to edit in Lake Proper. I've been taking my laptop out to my apartment balcony each morning this week and editing at least 1 scene before work starts. That seems to be working well. In the past, I've tried writing the pre-written or draft versions of the story before work, and I'm just not awake enough to be creative at that time of the day. So, I'm hoping to move to outlining Santaland Draft 2 (no pre-writing will be necessary, as Draft 1 serves that purpose ) once Lake Proper edits are finished--it's more an editing phase I'm in there. This time next week should be enough to see how that's going LOL! And, in the evening/other times of day, Relics!

 

[Jonas Stark]

I don't. And I may not have explained it well. It's the problem of "Where should I go on my vacation this year?" You've done all the places you really want to do, or they're out of your budget or you can't get enough time off work for them. There's a list and you (that is, I) cannot decide. This is a Me problem, Me trying to make decisions rather than the characters. Happens once or twice every story, if not more. It's part of the process and, yet...

Ahhhh. I think I see where you're coming from. In my case, I usually find my own crossroads are linked to something going on with the story, and it's usually a character decision or reflective somehow of how a character or a plot sequence is stuck in some sort of way. I don't know if I've come across a situation that was, from a functional perspective, entirely divorced from the characters but that sounds...challenging.

Of course! I outline to such a degree that I actually "pre-write" my stories. But even then, I change things when I write the actual draft, which is a process of mostly typing the pre-written version word for word. At least, until I hit a passage that no longer seems correct for the character or situation or accurate to the story so far. I outline to learn What happens in the story. I then pre-write to figure out How that happens. And I draft as a method of performing a first editing pass and to correct those ideas I thought were so great! in the moment but actually are not. Tangents and deviations from the outline happen mostly in the pre-writing stage, but they are infrequent by that point.

Oh wow! How long do your outlines tend to be? I think I get the broad strokes in there, but my outlines typically top out around 3500 words. It sounds like yours are probably quite a bit longer. I see the merit behind it.

That process probably sounds w-aa-yyyy too involved, but it works for me. And I'll say this about it too: that's mostly my process for writing novels. My micro and flash fiction is often written in a single sitting, no outline or pre-writing. Short stories too, but the longer it is the more I need an outline. Though, the pre-writing seems to be just a thing for novels. So far.

This makes sense. I'm about the same. I think I even kinda skipped the outlining process for the 25,000 word novella I wrote back in the day.

Yeah. We're so close to our stories that we can't just set them down and never come back. There's a reason writers say their story is their baby.

This is so true. Even just the process of writing is so mind-consuming. It took a solid 8-9 days before I really came down off the mountain and rejoined the living world after writing Lyetuna.

As of tonight, I have 4 scenes left to edit in Lake Proper. I've been taking my laptop out to my apartment balcony each morning this week and editing at least 1 scene before work starts. That seems to be working well. In the past, I've tried writing the pre-written or draft versions of the story before work, and I'm just not awake enough to be creative at that time of the day. So, I'm hoping to move to outlining Santaland Draft 2 (no pre-writing will be necessary, as Draft 1 serves that purpose ) once Lake Proper edits are finished--it's more an editing phase I'm in there. This time next week should be enough to see how that's going LOL! And, in the evening/other times of day, Relics!

Yes! I totally get this...also yes, morning creativity are two words that are perfect strangers in my vocabulary. I probably should have added that when you asked about how the hell I got 213k words in 72 days, but consistency was the big one. I usually used late evening after my wife went to bed. Hard to beat that night owl creativity!

 

[kmtolan]

Quick update. Still writing, but sparingly, so haven't been around much. Watching a first-draft slowly morph away from original idea, which is good. Not so good is the muddy pace. Don't know if it's being older, running out of ideas finally, or simply RL getting in the way . Good to see all the activity here, though. Still going to conventions (got a model train show this weekend) so should sell my train-related fantasy books just fine.

 

[RedMage]

Hi Kerry! It's great to see you!

We learned last fall that Hereford Eye passed away (tribute thread here). I bring that up because, after learning that, I worried whether you had just stepped back from the forum or if something else may have happened to you. You've been such a strong and consistent presence in our community that your absence has left a big hole. So I'm relieved to learn it was the former!

Speaking of your writing, do you need any help with this muddy situation? Either someone to read or just brainstorm ideas with?

 

[RolandsFarblood]

That actually doesn’t sound too involved to me at all. I’m probably much closer to your end of the spectrum when it comes to longer projects.

I’ve found that the more complicated a story gets, the more useful it is for me to seperate “what happens” from “how it happens”. I can make a structural decision that looks perfectly logical on paper, then get down to the actual scene and realise the character simply wouldn’t behave that way anymore.

At that point I’d rather change the plan than force the scene to obey it.

What I really like about detailed outlining is that changes become easier to judge, though. If I move or remove something, I can usually see what else it affects instead of discovering the consequences 80 pages later.

For short pieces I’m much looser too. But with anything long I think my brain just wants a map before it starts walking.

 

[RedMage]

That actually doesn’t sound too involved to me at all. I’m probably much closer to your end of the spectrum when it comes to longer projects.

I’ve found that the more complicated a story gets, the more useful it is for me to seperate “what happens” from “how it happens”. I can make a structural decision that looks perfectly logical on paper, then get down to the actual scene and realise the character simply wouldn’t behave that way anymore.

At that point I’d rather change the plan than force the scene to obey it.

What I really like about detailed outlining is that changes become easier to judge, though. If I move or remove something, I can usually see what else it affects instead of discovering the consequences 80 pages later.

For short pieces I’m much looser too. But with anything long I think my brain just wants a map before it starts walking.

This is me to a T. Outlining and pre-writing is how I think it should go. Then I start the draft and by the time I reach a particular scene--say Chapter 10--I know that the plan in my outline and pre-written versions don't work anymore. Either they're totally wrong and need to be taken in a completely new direction (a complete revision) or they need some minor tweak on the page that is nevertheless significant in regards to some element of the story, even if that is simply to show that the MC drives an all electric vehicle rather than a gas car. That still shows his opinion and commitment to environmental issues.

I haven't looked back in the thread, but I think I've said my "pre-written" versions of scenes are like a first draft. If I may be pedantic, they're actually more of a rough draft, after which comes the more finalized first draft that is then edited in the context of the entire story to create a second draft--or simply complete a first editing pass before giving the story to crit partners.

Oh wow! How long do your outlines tend to be? I think I get the broad strokes in there, but my outlines typically top out around 3500 words. It sounds like yours are probably quite a bit longer. I see the merit behind it.

I'll talk about the pre-written versions of scenes rather than the outlines. Sometimes, they're only 200 words shorter than the draft version. Other times, they're 1k words shorter. It depends what I'm doing with that scene.

For instance, I feel confident in writing character and setting descriptions. So I often leave those out of the pre-written version, only including a note for myself to add X description at this specific point. Btw, that 1k word difference was something that actually happened with one of my Lake Proper scenes. It was only supposed to be ~700 words. The draft version was a bit over 1700 words. In that case, I think the MC's discussion with another character needed to be expanded, or it expanded naturally as I wrote the draft, resulting in the pre-written version becoming more of a guide than the rough draft that they often are.

This is so true. Even just the process of writing is so mind-consuming. It took a solid 8-9 days before I really came down off the mountain and rejoined the living world after writing Lyetuna.

Sounds like you had a really good week there!

That's how I am when I write a whole lot in a short space of time. Runners have their high, an dso do writers.

Yes! I totally get this...also yes, morning creativity are two words that are perfect strangers in my vocabulary. I probably should have added that when you asked about how the hell I got 213k words in 72 days, but consistency was the big one. I usually used late evening after my wife went to bed. Hard to beat that night owl creativity!

Actually, mornings are the best time for me to write. Just not the moment I wake up. I often spend weekend mornings writing in a coffee shop or cafe--I'm single, no kids, ah the bachelor life Between my morning routine and caring for and playing with my cats, it takes me about 90 minutes to get out the door after waking up. That's the perfect amount of time to get my mind into gear and ready to be creative.

That said, I finished the first edit on Lake Proper! That was Thursday night. So I spent yesterday morning (Friday) looking into submitting a short story (which I previously did and got rejected for, so I didn't sub again) and then in revising one of the opening scenes in Lake Proper which my crit partners all universally detested. They had good reason and everyone complaining about the same thing led me to find a solution. The scene is much better now, if I do say so myself.

Lastly, I'm writing this from a cafe on Saturday morning. After spending the last two weeks on Lake Proper edits, they're finally done. So now it's time I turn my attention to another project. As discussed already, I have the far future, adult scifi Relics story that I set down due to a minor sticking point (then Lake Proper took off) and I have a new draft of the middle grade urban fantasy Santaland to plan out. I think I'll keep Santaland for weekday mornings, as revising is similar to editing and that's worked well for an hour before work. Relics will be so much fun and, yet, I don't know that I've actually solved the problem I was stuck on. Then there's other old ideas that, sensing my hesitation, have raised their hands for attention too...