A Sci Fi Reading Odyssey - 50 Novels

Interesting. I haven't read this book and the review does not make me want to. You have interpreted it as supporting eugenics, and you ask for other interpretations. Not having read it I can't say, but reading Stapledon's biography in the Wikipedia he does not strike me as a supporter of eugenics or racial supremacy or anything like that. The man was a pacifist and opposer of apartheid, with left-wing or communist ideas:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olaf_Stapledon

Could it be that this is just fiction with philosophical undertones, kind of like Scott Bakker's epic fantasy, which even has a somewhat similarly unsettling superman in the messiah Kellhus?

You should also have a look at Stapledon's SF encyclopedia entry, which places this book in the context of his future history, which in Last and First Men deals with the evolution of mankind:
http://www.sf-encyclopedia.com/entry/stapledon_olaf

Anyway, you shouldn't abandon your plan to read Star Maker. It's widely considered his best work and it's kind of stunning in its ambition and scope. It's particularly surprising when you consider how far ahead it was of the genre at the time (we are talking about a novel published in the 30s). Curiously, according to the SF Encyclopedia:
He was – at least initially – unaware of Genre SF and was somewhat taken aback when in the 1940s he was acclaimed by sf fans; he was even more startled when shown the contemporary magazines which provided their staple fodder.
 
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Hey Vince, thanks. Yeah I can see the review as possibly a reason to read or not to.. Like I said, would be curious to know other reactions. Mark both read it and reviewed it. Sounds like he was not a huge fan, but didn't have quite the visceral reaction that I did. I guess it pushed my buttons in a big way... :)

Btw, as per suggestion of the group I did a "rating" at the beginning of the review (to this and all others). Odd John got a "not recommended, offensive" I had to invent a new category, hahaha...

I didn't set out to be a political policeman critic... I try to see the historical context and give the writer a break generally... This one just seemed to go way beyond.
Missed the rating at the beginning. Sorry.
 
Interesting...
Thank you, Farseer, was hoping you would chime in. The blind review thing puts me in a bit of a dilemma... My review was honest, but also uninformed by any outside info on author or other works. Soon I will check out all about Stapledon's bio, politics, critical reception, etc., etc. Thanks for the links.

It's weird how differently one can read a book. Would never discourage anyone from reading this one especially if my review sparked any curiosity. In fact would enjoy the extra perspective. Mark will probably protest, but I may tone down the review a bit... Not because I changed my reaction, but to increase my credibility as a critiquer... as it is, it seems a little too highly charged. Looking for objective-sounding subjectivity, haha :)

I will influenced by you to keep Star Maker. I was seriously considering nix-ing it from the main list. I have to admit I'm curious. I'll ask for one little sneak peek.. Does Star Maker have a lot of overt-seeming political/social stuff in it, or no?

(added)

A few edits to review. Maybe slightly less rabid than before. About as forceful, but tiny bit less emotion driven I hope.

(added)

Several more small but key edits, increasing tribute to rationality and fairness, and to clean up the informal, ranty tone a little more. I really think it's improved, but like I said every bit as forceful.
 
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Solaris
Odd John
...

I've read (and re-read) all the others and enjoyed them but those five just didn't do it for me....no doubt some really liked them, it's all down to personal preferences I suppose

Danny, batting 1,000 so far. :)

Curious about your reading of Odd John. You mostly stopped because it was boring? I can totally see that about 1/3 in with the long philosophy passages.

If you keep going, it gets back to the story mostly, but then you begin to see it's getting pretty "off" in various ways. I guess you have to think about what it's really saying a bit and remind yourself of the 5-6 partially glossed-over cold-blooded murders the kids commit. There's tons of other racist stuff in there, both direct and indirect, as well as this apparently "progressive attitude" towards sexuality. To me it comes across not as advanced, but definitely perverted and does not seem to limit itself to consenting adults. "Vamping" children is a big thing in this book. Anyway to me it was pretty sick for multiple reasons. The Nazi connections are really blatant. See the list in my review. Also you see Leninist/Stalinist -- mass murder is easily justified to achieve the worker's paradise thing too. The Soviets actually step in on the last page in a contrived way. John tells them - "Yes we are communists too, but we are SUPER communists, evolved beyond your understanding" What a load!

Take one for the team and re-read it? lol, naw.. wouldn't ask that of anyone. Anyhow, on to Gateway! Not expecting any creepy surprises. :)
 
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It's weird how differently one can read a book

In my case I'm not saying I read it differently. I just haven't read it.


I will influenced by you to keep Star Maker. I was seriously considering nix-ing it from the main list. I have to admit I'm curious. I'll ask for one little sneak peek.. Does Star Maker have a lot of overt-seeming political/social stuff in it, or no?

It's been some time since I read it, but no, not in the way you are worrying about. It's at a different scale.
 
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Gateway by Frederik Pohl [1976]
Ballantine / Del Rey
278 pages
Reader Response by Matt H. [v 1.5] from Reading Odyssey
Rating: Recommended

Story Summary

About a half million years ago a mysterious alien race known as the Heechee left their advanced spaceships on an asteroid in Earth’s solar system. The asteroid is known as “Gateway” and the individuals who dare to visit it and pilot the Heechee ships are called “prospectors.” Heechee technology is poorly understood and there is no way to know where each craft will go or how long the journey may be. A few crews return with fabulous artifacts or scientific data and strike it immensely rich. Many more though, find nothing. And many return with dead crews or never return at all.

Bob Broadhead, the narrator, has lived a hard life as a “food miner” in Wyoming, but he has finally won the lottery. He uses his money to buy a trip to Gateway and fulfill his dream of becoming a prospector.

The narration covers two points-of-view. In one, the narrator recounts his experience on Gateway and his forays on the Heechee ships. In another, he is looking back on events during his psycho-therapy sessions with a computerized therapist he calls “Siggy.” The book is also interleaved with various short documents which convey additional background on the world of Gateway.

Critical Reader Response

Gateway has plenty of action but it is not centrally a story of space adventure. It’s really about Bob’s mental problems – their origin and their resolution through therapy. As the story makes clear, he is certainly no saint, but neither is he a monster. He is a virtuoso self-blamer who has been battered by life. He is unstable, and has sometimes violent relationships, paralyzing indecision, repressed guilt as well as issues of sexual identity. Add to this -- his station in life is low, his work menial, his cash minimal. And when he gets to Gateway all his problems are hugely magnified.

But of all Bob’s characteristics, one is especially relevant to his narration – he is a supreme wise-ass, and damn funny. His account of himself and his problems is profane, wide open and soaked in acidic humor. Poor Bob’s mental disintegration is a lot of fun. I suppose it could also be read with less underlying humor; he goes through a hell not always described humorously.

Pohl keeps your eyes moving happily along. The unfolding of the information is well-paced and well-dosed. He sketches in the world skillfully and makes you want to know much more about Gateway, the Heechee technology, the missions, the training, lodging, food, the attitudes and motivations of the prospectors, the horrors of exploitation wrought by the Gateway corporation. He serves up all rather deliciously, always dripping with the narrator’s lashing irony.

I loved this book for the sheer grittiness of its world. Pohl paints an entrancing picture of unpleasantness with unerringly believable details. It’s an awful place described by someone who is used to awful places, and that magnifies the effect. Gateway is cramped and dirty, stinky, with trash-strewn tunnels, recycled air, food and water. One can smell the sweat of fear and stress of its unfortunate inhabitant. The people too are dirty and stinky, but they are solid and real. You understand their situation remarkably well.

On this cramped, smelly space station, where one waits for a Russian-roulette mission, showers are infrequent and expensive, but sex is mostly free and easy, at least from the narrator’s perspective. It’s a globally diverse group of men and women, many nationalities, gay and straight, wealthy and poor, highly educated and less so, civilian and military. All seem credible individuals, and no one gets a pass. No character in the whole book is a type, not even vaguely. This is a feat of taste and skill.

When they’re not screwing, the prospectors spend all day drinking, smoking pot and cigarettes and gambling, sometimes with money they can’t afford to lose. (One can theoretically be “defenestrated” into space for not paying your life support fees.) They also throw a lot of heavy drinking parties for those departing and those returning. One can see a progressive, non-judgmental 1970’s party crowd in the Gateway prospectors, and it fits perfectly. The self-help references at times seemed almost too clearly transplanted from 1976 for a depiction of the future (Transactional Analysis, Est, Primal Scream, etc.) I admired the portrayals of otherwise cautious people persuading themselves to undertake very dangerous missions. You feel for them, and this freighted the few incidents of carnage with hefty impact. There are no villains in the book. One might say the Corporation is one, but even there lie occasional glimmers of individual humanity.

The writer shreds psychoanalysis in many ways, but at the same time the narrator seems to genuinely benefit from it. To me it was a wise and highly equivocal take. He reserves his most biting humor in highlighting the love-hate between patient and therapist. “Siggy” the computer will never desist until he arrives at a suitably Freudian admission from the narrator. There’s an echo of the feeling that psychoanalysis leaves you more messed up than you were before. When the narrator's central psychic wound is revealed, we learn it is connected with a split second life-or-death decision from his final space voyage. Of course he blames himself for murder. But an ingenious Sci-Fi complication is added at the very end, wrapping up the story nicely and hinting perhaps at a conditional salvation for Bob.

I enjoyed this book very much. It is well-conceived and executed and fully engaging. At the very end there was a hint of “pile-up” (a preoccupation with how everything will be wrapped-up in the next n pages), but it did actually work out pretty neatly. There may be a slight hint of something lacking at first when you finish it (I wanted more revenge on “Siggy.” Pohl wisely resisted.) But this is one of those works that continues to make more sense and improve as one looks back on it.
 
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Good review Matt, this is also one of my favourites from your list. When I read it (back in 2014) I actually noted "The two timelines merge into a surprising and thoughtful ending" - though I can't actually remember what that was!
 
Nice one, Matt.

I read it back in about 1980, I think. I remember it being regarded as Pohl's "return to form" after spending more time editing than writing in the previous decade. (I think Jem was published the year before*, but certainly didn't gain much initial notice here in the UK.)

There was a feeling that this was Pohl, influenced by the New Wave, attempting to write more grown-up SF, with more nuanced characters and - gasp! - sex. (Even Asimov was doing this, with The Gods Themselves in 1972.)

It seemed to work, too. Reviews were generally very positive. Sequels were less successful, and (if I remember right!) not as good.

*Nope. It was Man Plus the year before. Jem was published 1980, but I remember seeing it before Gateway here in the UK.
 
I liked gateway but I recall at the time that I thought the sessions with Siggy were just a touch overdone. Good job on the review. What is next on your list?
 
Great review Matt. Gateway is a favourite of mine and you've hit on all the key points very nicely but haven't given too much away. Pohl was a great writer IMO and his work deserves to be recognised by a much wider audience than it currently is.
 
I liked gateway but I recall at the time that I thought the sessions with Siggy were just a touch overdone. Good job on the review. What is next on your list?
Windy, thanks. I agree, the Siggy parts pushed it a little, and came close to being too much (especially the vacillation) Was going to actually mention that some might find that aspect a weakness... but I couldn't fit it in gracefully to review, lol... Also, his extremes are a little more understandable once you know the end and the main reason for it.

In the first post in thread I try to keep you updated overall progress and on the next book, etc.

Next up: Way Station, Simak.... I'm about 1/4 in. Read it?
 
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Nice one, Matt....

Thanks Mark! And thanks as always for the extra info. Since you commented, want to ask a couple more quick things...(as always, anyone else chime in too if you have any relevant info!

1. Is Way Station good on list? Do you strongly prefer City?

2. Have you read The World of Null A? I see now... it's another apparently with the "super man" theme... If you've read it, does it seem to "advocate" anything socially/politically (like I interpreted Odd John) or have a overt political point as you remember? (not sure I want something "tracty" again)

3. What do you think of Swapping Legion of Space with the Humanoids (Hands Folded), Read it? Made swap cause seems to be some agreement that Legion is a bit schlocky... Also want to balance Alien Invasion stories with space-set stories, etc.
 
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1. Is Way Station good on list? Do you strongly prefer City?
Having recently reread Way Station, I would probably still go for City. There are parts I really liked about Way Station, and other parts which showed its age. However it holds together better as a novel, whereas City is a fix-up, made up of a series of connected stories that were often published separately.

2. Have you read The World of Null A?
Long while ago. Another due a reread. More of van Vogt's stream of consciousness, more of an adventure story than anything else if I remember right.

3. What do you think of Swapping Legion of Space with the Humanoids (Hands Folded), Read it?
Yes: I would swap. Humanoids is less Space Opera, although if I remember right it has its "one-bound-and-they-were-free" moments.

Others may disagree, of course!

M.
 
The discussion has moved on from Odd John now, Matt, but from my point of view your visceral reaction is pretty much exactly what Stapledon was aiming to elicit.

We feel that H. superior is wrong somehow. We even find reasons to justify that feeling, which make sense in our morality, but not in theirs.

This is why the two species are so dangerous to each other.
 
The discussion has moved on from Odd John now, Matt, but from my point of view your visceral reaction is pretty much exactly what Stapledon was aiming to elicit.

We feel that H. superior is wrong somehow. We even find reasons to justify that feeling, which make sense in our morality, but not in theirs.

This is why the two species are so dangerous to each other.

And That is why I recommended the Heinlein story "Gulf" as a kind of counterpoint to Stapledon take on the concept. It can be found here in the original, I think as printed in Astounding 1949.
http://livskunskap.dyndns.org/veidos/english/literary/GULF.pdf
 
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I loved Gateway and I also read the other books in the series, which may not be quite as good and original but that were also very enjoyable for me.

I haven't read The World of Null A, but based on the novel Slan I do not have a high opinion of Van Vogt as a writer. This book (Slan) resonated a lot with fans in its time ("fans are slans!") because of how it depicted a bright but marginalized group of people that SF fans at that time, who tended to be kind of "nerdy" at a time when it was not considered cool, identified with (also the Übermensch theme). Anyway, the writing there is not good, one of those very early SF novels that hasn't aged well, not necessarily because of the plot or themes, but because of the quality of writing. To be fair, it's his first novel, and maybe he improved. His short story The Weapon Shop, which I read in The SF Hall of Fame anthology, was better.
 
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The discussion has moved on from Odd John now, Matt, but from my point of view your visceral reaction is pretty much exactly what Stapledon was aiming to elicit.

We feel that H. superior is wrong somehow. We even find reasons to justify that feeling, which make sense in our morality, but not in theirs.

This is why the two species are so dangerous to each other.
Darkflow, thanks. That was well well-worded. I thought about the possibility that Odd John was meant to be repellent. If the narrator is intended to be perceived as askew, and his view of reality unreliable and actually wrong then that fact is pretty well-disguised. What bothered me was how the book smacks of spiritual/political propaganda, it pretty much tells you what to think, seeming to me to reach outside the realm of fiction. Also all morality aside, it's just not a very good book structurally, though as I said in review he is a skilled writer overall.
 
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