It's always a bit silly though, because there's a big deal about /specific/ incantations and /specific/ hand gestures - And nearly everyone usually needs to do it. I'd assume that most people wouldn't use the same concentration aid as everyone else.
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Critique of various fantasy magic systems
- Thread starter Habeed
- Start date
"Although its easier to be born into wealth, its possible for almost anyone who is lucky and determined enough to gain wealth."
That is a big bold lie of the current sociopolitical system. You have about as much chance as gaining magical abilities in a fantasy world. What matters really is that even the middle class of current societies live better than the nobility a few hundred years ago - due to fossil fuel energy slaves. Now, this is about to end.
That is a big bold lie of the current sociopolitical system. You have about as much chance as gaining magical abilities in a fantasy world. What matters really is that even the middle class of current societies live better than the nobility a few hundred years ago - due to fossil fuel energy slaves. Now, this is about to end.
One the best magic systems that I have come across is that used by Katherine Kurtz's Deryni. The magicians are superhuman because what they can do is limited and it takes time to cast spells. In addition they draw power either from within or by tapping another.
As magicians are born their race is not exactly popular and at one point in the time line they are pariahs in the kingdom which the stories focus on.
As magicians are born their race is not exactly popular and at one point in the time line they are pariahs in the kingdom which the stories focus on.
To critique magic systems, you need criteria...and I doubt all readers will share the same criteria (nor is there any reason for them to...)
But to share mine:
1. Whatever the magic system or systems, Story rules--the magic must serve the story, not ruin it.
2. This means that no magic can be unlimited. Unlimited power means there's no conflict (ZAP to the opponent, it's over, so what?)
3. Thus every form of magic operates by some rule system, which the writer needs to know and at least some of which is shared with the reader, so the reader can trust the writer. In a set of psi power stories years ago (which we might now call science fantasy but was then called science fiction) I gave up on the series when the heroine suddenly began popping out a new psi power every time she got into a bind. Deus ex machina is just as annoying with magic as the machina.
4. Magical power can be innate in a person, place, or thing, but the kind of magic inherent in each should be distinct. If, for example, every person, place, or thing that's magical can emit the same kind of light on command...boring.
5. Learned magic should require effort to learn and use. It should also be expensive. Cheap magic; cheap results (something I used in the first fantasy story I ever sold, "Bargains.")
6. The existence of overt magic in a fictional world already stretches the reader's suspension of disbelief...so in more serious works, where it's not supposed to be funny, tone matters. The writer must be able to control the tone of the language to suit the kind of magic and story.
Another consideration is what does the writer mean by magic, and is all the magic magic? Is any extra power (high intelligence, uncommon reaction time, etc.) borderline magic...esp. if you're born with it? My son has absolute pitch--something very few people have--and it certainly amazes people when he can say "Oh, that's a C-sharp minor chord, only the piano's a little flat." In a story, the writer can give non-common powers to characters and not consider that magic, esp. if they aren't human. Humans may call it magic, but to those who possess it, that power may be as normal as our basic senses. In that case, the "magic" is set into the grain of the world-building and won't be "visible" as a magic system. It's just different.
And another--very important to me--is how the writer uses magic in the service of Story. Does the magic introduce additional complications, or just easy ways out? Does the magic feel integral to the world--woven deeply into the fabric of the place, the culture, politics/religion/economics, and the characters, in a way that enriches the story? Or is it a set of standard magic tricks dropped into the story, or even just painted on top, without being fully part of it? Or used merely to make a point...?
Back in the 1920s and 30s, a writer named Thorne Smith wrote some very funny fantasies that were basically spoofs and social commentary. In one, for instance, an annoyed Oriental figurine causes a husband and wife to change bodies...right after he gets her pregnant. In another, statues of classical deities come to life and start cavorting around in New York City, acting like their originals (or, as Homer said their originals acted.) Very different from (most, at least) modern fantasy, but there was magic, and it was limited and had its own logic. Hardly a "system," though.
But to share mine:
1. Whatever the magic system or systems, Story rules--the magic must serve the story, not ruin it.
2. This means that no magic can be unlimited. Unlimited power means there's no conflict (ZAP to the opponent, it's over, so what?)
3. Thus every form of magic operates by some rule system, which the writer needs to know and at least some of which is shared with the reader, so the reader can trust the writer. In a set of psi power stories years ago (which we might now call science fantasy but was then called science fiction) I gave up on the series when the heroine suddenly began popping out a new psi power every time she got into a bind. Deus ex machina is just as annoying with magic as the machina.
4. Magical power can be innate in a person, place, or thing, but the kind of magic inherent in each should be distinct. If, for example, every person, place, or thing that's magical can emit the same kind of light on command...boring.
5. Learned magic should require effort to learn and use. It should also be expensive. Cheap magic; cheap results (something I used in the first fantasy story I ever sold, "Bargains.")
6. The existence of overt magic in a fictional world already stretches the reader's suspension of disbelief...so in more serious works, where it's not supposed to be funny, tone matters. The writer must be able to control the tone of the language to suit the kind of magic and story.
Another consideration is what does the writer mean by magic, and is all the magic magic? Is any extra power (high intelligence, uncommon reaction time, etc.) borderline magic...esp. if you're born with it? My son has absolute pitch--something very few people have--and it certainly amazes people when he can say "Oh, that's a C-sharp minor chord, only the piano's a little flat." In a story, the writer can give non-common powers to characters and not consider that magic, esp. if they aren't human. Humans may call it magic, but to those who possess it, that power may be as normal as our basic senses. In that case, the "magic" is set into the grain of the world-building and won't be "visible" as a magic system. It's just different.
And another--very important to me--is how the writer uses magic in the service of Story. Does the magic introduce additional complications, or just easy ways out? Does the magic feel integral to the world--woven deeply into the fabric of the place, the culture, politics/religion/economics, and the characters, in a way that enriches the story? Or is it a set of standard magic tricks dropped into the story, or even just painted on top, without being fully part of it? Or used merely to make a point...?
Back in the 1920s and 30s, a writer named Thorne Smith wrote some very funny fantasies that were basically spoofs and social commentary. In one, for instance, an annoyed Oriental figurine causes a husband and wife to change bodies...right after he gets her pregnant. In another, statues of classical deities come to life and start cavorting around in New York City, acting like their originals (or, as Homer said their originals acted.) Very different from (most, at least) modern fantasy, but there was magic, and it was limited and had its own logic. Hardly a "system," though.
I usually get lost in anything i read, though i do pay close attention to the magic system of what ever i read... due to the mere fact that I'm int he process of creating my own at the moment... quite literally as we speak. But, i have found after paying close attention to this thread, and thinking about what i like and don't like, that what i like most is consistency, explanation of how it works, and how any one person can manipulate/use it or w/e... i know what I'm trying to say it just isn't formulating well... But, i have to say it's quite difficult to judge anyone at the moment due to my own problems creating my own system.
I'm not saying not to or the like, just thought i would give a different perspective in this thread ;-).
Creating a magic system that's unique, complex, well thought out, and making it make sense is very taxing... ugh... but i have to say it's very rewarding when an idea you got makes sense to others and said others enjoy it just as much as you do.
I've come up with a unique idea of how it exists, as a whole mind you, but allows for gods, demons, and the like to co-exist with it and well simply put grant their own magic to their followers... or unlucky dim-witted (in my opinion) individuals (some times... ).
~ If anyone is interested let me know.... this is by chance lol, i could use some advise, feed back what not ~
Now, i have to say i like the magic system in Harry Potter, Dragon lance, The Band and Banished (though it did creep me out at times) and umm... well darn, can't think of any more at the moment.
Now, i very much don't like when there's a spell for everything, no limitations makes it all come crumbling down for me, i start to loose interest quick. I don't care much for the overly powerful wizard...though, i do much enjoy the thought of an experienced wizard, whatever the age laying waste to an entire army form time to time... however they're able to achieve such a feat... cause for one, I'm to lost in the story at that moment to rationally make sense of what the hizeck just happened or two, I'm wanting some major action.
Now like i said this is all my opinion, but i hope i shed some light to the Convo at hand... if not.. meh ;-)
I'm not saying not to or the like, just thought i would give a different perspective in this thread ;-).
Creating a magic system that's unique, complex, well thought out, and making it make sense is very taxing... ugh... but i have to say it's very rewarding when an idea you got makes sense to others and said others enjoy it just as much as you do.
I've come up with a unique idea of how it exists, as a whole mind you, but allows for gods, demons, and the like to co-exist with it and well simply put grant their own magic to their followers... or unlucky dim-witted (in my opinion) individuals (some times... ).
~ If anyone is interested let me know.... this is by chance lol, i could use some advise, feed back what not ~
Now, i have to say i like the magic system in Harry Potter, Dragon lance, The Band and Banished (though it did creep me out at times) and umm... well darn, can't think of any more at the moment.
Now, i very much don't like when there's a spell for everything, no limitations makes it all come crumbling down for me, i start to loose interest quick. I don't care much for the overly powerful wizard...though, i do much enjoy the thought of an experienced wizard, whatever the age laying waste to an entire army form time to time... however they're able to achieve such a feat... cause for one, I'm to lost in the story at that moment to rationally make sense of what the hizeck just happened or two, I'm wanting some major action.
Now like i said this is all my opinion, but i hope i shed some light to the Convo at hand... if not.. meh ;-)
The biggest beef I have with the vast majority of fantasy magic systems is that in order for a character to have any magic at all, the character must be born with it.
In addition to that, I can imagine that in any realistic world, if a few are born with powers and the rest without, tremendous class envy will naturally arise.
Sorry to resurrect an old thread but holy smokes do we think alike. In my WIP people can develop magical powers unwillingly, and in another book I'm thinking of writing class envy (and subsequent revolution) as a result of magical power is exactly what happens.
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