Fantasy from countries other than America and UK

[SiberianSamurai]

Can you think of any authors or books that write modern fantasy (epic, SS, or other forms) from other countries, either in Europe or elsewhere?

If so, how do they compare to UK/America stlyes of Fantasy fiction?

 

[Jay_T]

We are talking about some of the greatest works ever, here is a couple:


Haruki Murakami's Wind up Bird Chronicle, and Kaka on the Shoer, and Hard-Boiled Wonderland and the End of the World obviously he is Japanese, but even among Japanese, and although he is a terrific writer we consider him very westernised.

Kobe Abe has written one of the great novels of the fantastic ever IMHO with Woman in the Dunes - masterful sureal/absurdist work.

Michael Ende wrote The Never Ending Story (I'm assuming everyone has head of that)- he was German.

Italo Calvino, one of the finest modern writers ever IMHO wrote wonderful magic/realists novels like Invisible Cities, and The Baron in the Trees (among other works)

The Master and Margarita by russian writer Mikhail Bulgakov, is another all time great IMHO, a political/social satire mixed in fantasy.

Jorge Luis Borges one of the finest short story writers ever, and collection is highly recommended. also a practioner of magic realism, as is Gabriel García Márquez whsoe 100 Years of Solitude, he actually won the Nobel Prize.


Franz Kafka's The Castle, is a surreal, and explicit novel, and his short stories including Metamorphisis are ground breaking.

Zoran Zivkovic is a one of best writers today IMHO, a literary fanatsist, who has a SF work The Fourth Circle out and has a collection coming out from PS Publishing Twelve Collections and Tea Shop

 

[Yobmod]

Purfume by Patrick Suskind is another literary fantasy from Germany.

I'm finding it very difficult to think of any epic or S&S from non-english speaking countries. As the themes of epic fantasy are supposedly universal, this seems strange.

Don't know if the epic fantasy fan-boys just don't look for anything foreign, or the publishers of epic fantasy abroad think there's not enough profit so don't even try to distribute translations?

 

[SiberianSamurai]

Thanks JayT,

Bulgakov, kafka, and Murakami I have read, but I will definitely check out the others.

I have been hearing a lot about Italo Calvino; Zivkovic I haven't heard about but I will do some research.

Your post is interesting because it seems to push the boundaries of Fantasy somewhat. In Russia you would never see Bulgakov on a Fantasy list, and 'Master and Margarita' is considered one of the best books in twentieth century literature. Japanese forms of fantasy don't seem to correspond to western styles, at least not in book form. Certainly they utilize fantasy in anime and video games, but I'm not sure you would find a comprehensive fantasy section in a Japanese bookstore.

I'm not disagreeing with your reccommendations, but I'm wondering if Fantasy readers sometimes tend to borrow or incorporate books that traditionally might belong in another genre. This especially seems to be the case when talking about books outside of Europe or at least outside America and the UK.

I guess my point is that in many cases these books that we label 'Fantasy' do not correspond to the typical formulas that exist within the genre. And this is especially true when speaking about Fantasy books from other countries.

 

[Jay_T]

Well, admittedly not all the books are going to be found in fantasy sections in any country. Borges, Marquez, Kafka, etc are most defintely not in fantasy sections.

I don't however give much credence to publisher or retailer store labels, I don't need a publsiher to tell me for instrance that Calvino is author of the fantastic - which is really where the issue comes into play with some.

Bulgakov for instance has to be fantasy - what else could it be? There is a tall cat that jokes around and carries a gangster-stle tommy gun - that's fantasy, it doesn't matter where they put it on the shelves.

Essentially these are the forefathers of literary fantasy.

do not correspond to the typical formulas that exist within the genre.

Depending on what you mean you mean by typical I would agree, but typical isn't always correct, and honestly I don't read to much epic or Sword/Sorcery fantasy as much as I used to because IMHO most of the quality fantasy authors don't write in those sub-genres any more IMHO (with few notable exceptions).

you asked this question:

(epic, SS, or other forms)

I gave the forms I enjoy which is modern/literal/urban whatever label somone
wants to put on it.


BTW - I dont live in the U.S nor am I an American citizen.

 

[KatG]

Oh good boy, we've been meaning to get this thread going for awhile. But you might want to make it other than America, Canada, the UK and Australia. Not that Canada and Australian writers don't deserve attention, but they are part of the main English language market with the U.S. and the U.K.

 

[Rob B]

...and Canada is just America's backyard anyway (waiting for Bakker to come here). Seriously though, a number of great writers have emerged from Canada.

I haven't read it, but Carlos Ruiz Zafon's Shadow of the Wind was originally written in Spanish and sounds like it has elements of Fantasy.

The Carpet Makers by Andreas Eschbach originally written in German, was recently translated and published by Tor.

Kalpa Imperial : The Greatest Empire That Never Was by Angélica Gorodischer and translated by Ursula K. Le Guin. Gorodischer is from Argentina.

 

[Evil Agent]

...and Canada is just America's backyard anyway.

Careful, Fitz! There are several hot tempered Canadians on here, myself included, who may very well hunt you down for those type of statements.

 

[Rob B]

I'm only kidding, of course. I've been up there twice and thought it was nice. Once to Montreal for business once to the Toronto area with family.

 

[SiberianSamurai]

Oh good boy, we've been meaning to get this thread going for awhile. But you might want to make it other than America, Canada, the UK and Australia. Not that Canada and Australian writers don't deserve attention, but they are part of the main English language market with the U.S. and the U.K.

You're right, I should have added Canada and Australia. So let's go ahead and add them as well.

 

[SiberianSamurai]

Well, admittedly not all the books are going to be found in fantasy sections in any country. Borges, Marquez, Kafka, etc are most defintely not in fantasy sections.

I don't however give much credence to publisher or retailer store labels, I don't need a publsiher to tell me for instrance that Calvino is author of the fantastic - which is really where the issue comes into play with some.

Bulgakov for instance has to be fantasy - what else could it be? There is a tall cat that jokes around and carries a gangster-stle tommy gun - that's fantasy, it doesn't matter where they put it on the shelves.

Essentially these are the forefathers of literary fantasy.



Depending on what you mean you mean by typical I would agree, but typical isn't always correct, and honestly I don't read to much epic or Sword/Sorcery fantasy as much as I used to because IMHO most of the quality fantasy authors don't write in those sub-genres any more IMHO (with few notable exceptions).

you asked this question:




I gave the forms I enjoy which is modern/literal/urban whatever label somone
wants to put on it.


BTW - I dont live in the U.S nor am I an American citizen.

Yes, yes, I agree with everything you have said and as I mentioned before I think your reccommendations are valid. However, there is in fact a reason why publishers have labeled certain books as fantasy in the west; namely because there is a more or less formulaic approach to fantasy which incorporates a number of stylistic devices that facilitate categorization. In America et al. authors write within these specific boundaries, and if this forum is of any significance, many readers are sick of it.

But then again maybe not, as so many of us keep on returning to the genre.

Evidenced by your post and recs, as well as those of others, I think more importantly people are simply sick of the bad writing that has pervaded the genre, but are attached to the formulas that have existed for some time now.
Doubtless there are any number of books that one could find that have fantastic elements, and yet are not found in the fantasy section. But we are talking about a genre, are we not. The fact that you have included books by Bulgakov and others, to my mind means that you are seeking something with a little more depth. I don't care what anyone says, these books that you have reccommended do not correspond to the typical SS and epic titles available. They are books that utilize fantasy, certainly, but I don't know whether or not they should be called fantasy.

But to wit, perhaps these books that exist outside the genre have a valuable lesson for traditional fantasy readers and writers. That is, they incorporate things that have to do with politcal satire and commentary, history, culture, etc. Traditional fantasy in the western sense seems to have largely forgotten about these necessary elements that belong in any great book. We have ditched the innards and kept the skeleton, so to speak. But perhaps all is not lost and mayble there is hope at the end of the tunnel.

In any case, what I originally wanted to do was to first, establish recs from countries that are unusual from a somewhat ethnocentric viewpoint, but second, and perhaps more importantly, compare these stlyes from other countries to our own. How do they differ? Do other countries demonstrate more rigor with respect to the quality of fantasy, at least relative to our own. Lets have some comparisons if we can.

 

[SiberianSamurai]

Purfume by Patrick Suskind is another literary fantasy from Germany.

I'm finding it very difficult to think of any epic or S&S from non-english speaking countries. As the themes of epic fantasy are supposedly universal, this seems strange.

Don't know if the epic fantasy fan-boys just don't look for anything foreign, or the publishers of epic fantasy abroad think there's not enough profit so don't even try to distribute translations?

There is a similar situation with foreign movies. I don't know how it is in the UK, but in the US foreign movies are not distributed or exported as often as I think they should be. this because of profit of course. I have a feeling the UK has much more access though.

 

[Jay_T]

Siberian Samuraii - I agree with what your saying, but although the bulk of the genre is epic/ss, there are numerous current authors who practice fantasy (and embrace being fantasy authors) that practice in similar fashion as the authors mentioned above - many of the being UK and U.s Authors.

We are talking about authors that embrace realism, and social, or political relevance, we are talking about not only people who have written a book, but are actual writers, authors like Jeff VanderMeer, China Mievlle, Jeffrey Ford, K.J Bishop, John M. Ford, Gene Wolfe, M. John Harrison, John Crowley, Tim Powers, Jonathan Carroll, Charles de Lint, Paul di Filippo, Catheynne M. Valente, Jay Lake, Ian R. Macleod, John C. Wright, Neil Gaiman, Vera Nazarian, Tim Pratt, Nick Mamatas, Michael Cisco, Brooks Hansen, Sean Stewart, Kelly Link, Matthww Rossi, Rhys Hughes, Chris Roberson, Michael Moorcock, JG Ballard, Steve Aylet, Geoff Ryman, Paul Witcover, Mattehw Stover (dozens, and dozens more) etc, etc

Your insinuation (forgive me if I am misreadeing you I'm going by this quote " I don't care what anyone says, these books that you have reccommended do not correspond to the typical SS and epic titles available.") that only epic or S/S fantasy are actual fantasy in extremly inaccurate, it completely ignores sub-genres and movements like Slip Stream, New Weird, Urban Fantasy etc, etc, - although I agree with you they don't correspond with typical, - only because they are well written. There are many fantasy authors who look at those names as some of the great fantasists ever. There is nothing more or less fantasy about them than Mervyn Peake, who is without question a fanatsy author, there is no difference fro mthen than Jonathan Swift's Guliver's Travels, which also is unquestioanble a fantasy work - although neither are in thr epic, or S/S sub-genres.

Not being epic fantasy or SS fantasy doesn't constitute not being fantasy whether in english speaking countries or not, whether now or then. Like I said I am not talking about epic or SS titles, however I am still talking about fantasy. If you are looking for examples of fanatsy exclusive to those sub-genres of fantasy then I agree.

In any case, what I originally wanted to do was to first, establish recs from countries that are unusual from a somewhat ethnocentric viewpoint, but second, and perhaps more importantly, compare these stlyes from other countries to our own. How do they differ? Do other countries demonstrate more rigor with respect to the quality of fantasy, at least relative to our own. Lets have some comparisons if we can.

I'm honestly not, sure although I have examples of work from author of many different countries, I don't have enough to make a broad statement like that, I think the differentiation can be see more from publisher to publisher. Without question Small Beer Press, or Prime publishes a different brand of fantasy than we will see in a typical Del-Rey product, where Macmillan's big hits include off beat wonderful works by Jeff VanderMeer, China Mieville, Justina Robson, Ian. M. Banks, and Hal Duncan, Del-Rey's featured in its tired line up Terry Brooks, and the completely inept Robert Newcomb (although they run to authors like Mieville and Duncan when the market is set for later U.S releases). Where Tor's busy campaigning the latest (which no doubt like his first) effort from Robert Jordan, Golden Gryphon is pimping Jeffrey's Ford's January release of Empire of Ice Cream. There is not question, no matter what the nationality of the author is, a Dragonlance title..well, will be a Dragonlance title, whatever that means to the individual ( I think they are hopelessly awful)


It's hard to say because I can name excellent works from the U.S. and a lot of awful ones, and I can say the same from other countries
- although I will agree that the U.S market probably allows for more opportunites for both excellent and dire works to be able to see print. I also can name example of every style from each country, so I can't really see any difference (with a resoanable amount of examples) I know Banker is Indian for example but have no othe examples to compare if he is the nor there or not.

I think more importantly people are simply sick of the bad writing that has pervaded the genre

*raises hand*

Some are, but their are plenty of current authors to read for us (as noted above)!

 

[Hereford Eye]

Troll by Johanna Sinisalo of Finland.

 

[Ouroboros]

In discussing how writers from X country differ from american, british, australian or canadian writers, aren't we implicitly suggesting that some degree of homogeneity exists in terms of what these countries are producing?

If we are going to categorise the international output of fantasy novels, I'm not necessarily sure that dividing it according to national boundaries is a better idea than along simply along thematic or styllistic lines. To speak of 'british trends' in SF/fantasy might work in broad terms but it crumbles upon closer examination, there is a depth of diversity. Broadening the comparison and drawing paralells with other countries might just compound the problem.

With that said, certain trends do seem to be in effect. For example, the best military science fiction (and, I would argue, alternate history) being written at the moment unquestionably comes from quite a close-knit group of american writers, the guys at Baen books.... Sure, they're all american, but a lot of them are also veterans of the armed forces. Which characteristic is more significant in relation to their output?

 

[Brys]

Careful, Fitz! There are several hot tempered Canadians on here, myself included, who may very well hunt you down for those type of statements.

I'm British, but yes, Canada is Britain's backyard, not America's! Lol. In terms of politics, Canada is closer to Britain than to America.
Still, I don't think we include canadian authors in this because they're still writing English language novels.