How old will you be when the last ASOIAF novel comes out?

[nick1689]

Are you sure you don't want me to go into the comparative analysis of the five different versions of ADWD that have, at one time or another, existed or been planned? Whilst it would probably leave you convinced that the current version of ADWD should be great, it may erode your will to live

I would actually like to hear that . I thought there was only one version he had, which he then chucked for what he is writing now?

 

[Dyloot]

Are you sure you don't want me to go into the comparative analysis of the five different versions of ADWD that have, at one time or another, existed or been planned? Whilst it would probably leave you convinced that the current version of ADWD should be great, it may erode your will to live

It also factors into my contention that ADWD must be one of the most scrutinised in-production novels ever written, which in itself may be a factor. Just try doing anything you'd do normally by yourself with no-one commenting or caring, with an audience of ten thousand instead

I'd like to read the analysis of the different versions after I've read ADWD. For now I'm content to wait for the actual book to hit the shelves of my local bookstore... hopefully on a Friday at about 4 p.m.

I believe I do, in a way, understand the pressure Martin must be feeling. I write 3,000-4,000 (or more) words every week for a newspaper with a 40,000 circulation. I've worked well past my 40 hours to completely rewrite a feature story that isn't working for me... and I've also turned in a story I wasn't happy with because my deadline was up.

And then there are days I nail the story the first time and go home a very happy man. While I don't have the insider knowledge that you appear to enjoy, I assume that Martin went home happy with the first three ASOIAF manuscripts in but is now, perhaps, working overtime while missing deadlines to fix ADWD. That's never a good place for a writer.

I suggest coffee and less distractions.

 

[Werthead]

I would actually like to hear that . I thought there was only one version he had, which he then chucked for what he is writing now?

The different iterations were:

1) When ADWD was Book 2 of the series and started with the aftermath of the Red Wedding and included all of the material that makes up the current Books 3 and 5 and parts of 4. This can more or less be ignored as it was abandoned whilst GRRM was still writing AGoT.

2) When ADWD was Book 4 of the series and picked up 5 years after the end of ASoS. This is the version GRRM spent 18 months writing and then abandoned in favour of AFFC.

3) When ADWD was Book 5 of the series and planned to follow on from the pre-split AFFC.

4) When AFFC was split in half and the half of AFFC that was renamed ADWD was simply that half of the story. This is the version GRRM assumed he would put out 12 months after AFFC. The weakness with this version was that as merely the other half of AFFC, it would likely not have moved the story forward in a very interesting fashion. If this version had been published, I think it would have both attracted a similar negative reaction as AFFC, and would also have pushed the series to 8 books (since all the events of version 3 would presumably have been pushed into Book 6, with a knock-on effect extending the series by one volume).

5) The current version of ADWD, which seems to be a combination of Volumes 2, 3 and 4. As far as I can tell it dumps most of the scene-setting of version 4 in favour of moving the story forward ahead much more dynamically. If GRRM pulls it off - which remains to be seen - the series should stay at 7 volumes and the book should attract much more favourable reviews than AFFC.

And then there are days I nail the story the first time and go home a very happy man. While I don't have the insider knowledge that you appear to enjoy, I assume that Martin went home happy with the first three ASOIAF manuscripts in but is now, perhaps, working overtime while missing deadlines to fix ADWD. That's never a good place for a writer.

Ha, not even close. He finished AGoT substantially earlier than he wanted to (originally it was supposed to finish with the Red Wedding ), ACoK was late (although 'only' by six months) and to finish ASoS in that insanely short space of time he didn't take any time off over Christmas 1999 at all, including Christmas Day.

 

[Dyloot]

Ha, not even close. He finished AGoT substantially earlier than he wanted to (originally it was supposed to finish with the Red Wedding ), ACoK was late (although 'only' by six months) and to finish ASoS in that insanely short space of time he didn't take any time off over Christmas 1999 at all, including Christmas Day.

Well, he pulled it off. The first three books are the best I've ever read to open a series, and that's saying a lot compared to RJ's first three.

Spoiler

Your comment on the Red Wedding surprises me. That twist to the story line baffled me... I was shocked that he would kill off Robb after three books of developing him, but it makes more sense now knowing that he intended to it much quicker.

In fact, the more I think about it, GRRM's difficulties in keeping to his outline for the story's beginnings sheds a whole new light on this series to me. The first three books really seemed to set the stage for what the larger tale actually would be, and his initial plan to contain that all in a single novel makes sense. Interesting.

With this said, his difficulties in keeping to his outline probably added to the story in the end. The casual fantasy readers I've met who read the series laud Martin for his willingness to kill any character at any time.

 

[Barstool Blues]

Maybe the real question should be...will George R.R. Martin actually live out the series? He just turned 60 yesterday and he isn't exactly in shape, so the guy could be due for a heart attack. I'm mostly just jesting, but seriously it very well could happen that he could die before he finishes the series...and that would really, really, suck.

 

[Dyloot]

Maybe the real question should be...will George R.R. Martin actually live out the series? He just turned 60 yesterday and he isn't exactly in shape, so the guy could be due for a heart attack. I'm mostly just jesting, but seriously it very well could happen that he could die before he finishes the series...and that would really, really, suck.

That joke circulated for years about Robert Jordan... until he got sick... and then died.

 

[Keyoke]

I'm past the point of caring with the Songs of Fire and Ice. I expect the series will never finish, or, by the time it is, I wont remember anything and I wont care.

Their are so many other wonderful works out there that get published in a timely manner. And hence, I will focus my attention on those works.

Keyoke

 

[Werthead]

Maybe the real question should be...will George R.R. Martin actually live out the series? He just turned 60 yesterday and he isn't exactly in shape, so the guy could be due for a heart attack. I'm mostly just jesting, but seriously it very well could happen that he could die before he finishes the series...and that would really, really, suck.

As I'm fond of saying, GRRM's favourite author is Jack Vance, who is also a pretty big guy. He published his last SF novel three years ago, at the age of 90.

GRRM also has regular health check-ups, doesn't have any history of heart problems and notably isn't suffering from the 1-in-1.2 million disease that Robert Jordan was. I consider it fairly unlikely he is going to go anywhere soon.

 

[Dyloot]

As I'm fond of saying, GRRM's favourite author is Jack Vance, who is also a pretty big guy. He published his last SF novel three years ago, at the age of 90.

GRRM also has regular health check-ups, doesn't have any history of heart problems and notably isn't suffering from the 1-in-1.2 million disease that Robert Jordan was. I consider it fairly unlikely he is going to go anywhere soon.

I know I'm not joking around but the author dying before finishing the series this time around. Only good vibes.

 

[nick1689]

The different iterations were:

1) When ADWD was Book 2 of the series and started with the aftermath of the Red Wedding and included all of the material that makes up the current Books 3 and 5 and parts of 4. This can more or less be ignored as it was abandoned whilst GRRM was still writing AGoT.

2) When ADWD was Book 4 of the series and picked up 5 years after the end of ASoS. This is the version GRRM spent 18 months writing and then abandoned in favour of AFFC.

3) When ADWD was Book 5 of the series and planned to follow on from the pre-split AFFC.

4) When AFFC was split in half and the half of AFFC that was renamed ADWD was simply that half of the story. This is the version GRRM assumed he would put out 12 months after AFFC. The weakness with this version was that as merely the other half of AFFC, it would likely not have moved the story forward in a very interesting fashion. If this version had been published, I think it would have both attracted a similar negative reaction as AFFC, and would also have pushed the series to 8 books (since all the events of version 3 would presumably have been pushed into Book 6, with a knock-on effect extending the series by one volume).

5) The current version of ADWD, which seems to be a combination of Volumes 2, 3 and 4. As far as I can tell it dumps most of the scene-setting of version 4 in favour of moving the story forward ahead much more dynamically. If GRRM pulls it off - which remains to be seen - the series should stay at 7 volumes and the book should attract much more favourable reviews than AFFC.

Ohk, thats pretty interesting. Thanks

 

[courtney]

what a rubbish ulcer making, heart strain inducing, stress filled thread for the author if he stops by here (which he probably does).
i'm sick of this.
leave him alone to do what he does best. i tell you the disadvantages of sharing info with your fans is never more apparent than right now with george on this website. without the net and blogs etc this would all dissapear. how long did donaldson take with his thomas covenant world?
and another thing how come you're all so confident that you'll be alive in x years anyway? chances are some of you will die suddenly before even the next book drops let alone the series.... are none of you aware of your own mortality? let alone morality.
i think its well out of order to be talking like this, and i think it comes down to being completely self obsorbed, and not looking at the situation in a more empathetic way.

 

[Werthead]

what a rubbish ulcer making, heart strain inducing, stress filled thread for the author if he stops by here (which he probably does).

Actually, he doesn't. He doesn't even read his own forum for various reasons (most notably because if someone came up with a really good idea and it was known he read the forums and this idea appeared in the books, there could be legal ramifications).

However, he does read his own LJ, and his friends and family read various forums and I know they do get upset seeing lots of utterly baseless discussion about his impending demise.

 

[courtney]

its strangely sick right?
this obsession?
werthead you are a voice of reason, but arent you tired of having to bend into a defensive stance about posts of stuff and nonense (as my imaginary grandma used to say).

anyway glad he doesnt have to see this stuff. i feel if i were him and saw all the crap, i'd make em wait longer, even get them done but let the conclusion be aired in the televisual world before releasing the final volume...

but no, thoughts of revenge, to the dark side they lead, this path I would follow an option is not....if i were him that is

 

[Werthead]

its strangely sick right?
this obsession?

Actually, I think GRRM has always seen it as a dubious compliment. It's good his series has moved people so much they get this obsessed with it. It's not so good when he starts fearing a Misery-style situation. And even if you think GRRM is the best SF&F author around, it's not like there isn't at least fifty other authors you could find who are in the same league of quality who produce work more frequently.

I do admit the obsession some people have with his personal life, about whether he should be watching football games or not, is a bit weird and disturbing. I generally don't expect authors to spend more than eight hours a day on their writing just as I don't expect a bank manager to spend more than eight hours a day in the bank, and what they get up to in their free time is up to them.

werthead you are a voice of reason, but arent you tired of having to bend into a defensive stance about posts of stuff and nonense (as my imaginary grandma used to say).

It's surprising the number of things that have happened in the writing process people aren't aware of, or what angles they haven't considered. Once certain things are explained to them - like the writing speed of each book hasn't actually changed much over the course of the series - a lot of people calm down, especially once they go and check out the threads on Westeros where you can actually see the chapters we'd have gotten if ADWD had been rushed out ASAP, and what the new ones look like instead. And of course the thing people do moan about the most, like the promise the book would be done 12 months after AFFC and it wasn't, is irrefutable and GRRM has acknowledged that. It's kind of hard to prosecute any kind of criticism when the person you're criticising agrees with you

anyway glad he doesnt have to see this stuff. i feel if i were him and saw all the crap, i'd make em wait longer, even get them done but let the conclusion be aired in the televisual world before releasing the final volume...

Ha, he knows that for every person writing derogatory statements on his LJ there are probably 50,000 who wish him well, so it's not that much of an issue.

 

[Dyloot]

what a rubbish ulcer making, heart strain inducing, stress filled thread for the author if he stops by here (which he probably does).
i'm sick of this.
leave him alone to do what he does best. i tell you the disadvantages of sharing info with your fans is never more apparent than right now with george on this website. without the net and blogs etc this would all dissapear. how long did donaldson take with his thomas covenant world?
and another thing how come you're all so confident that you'll be alive in x years anyway? chances are some of you will die suddenly before even the next book drops let alone the series.... are none of you aware of your own mortality? let alone morality.
i think its well out of order to be talking like this, and i think it comes down to being completely self obsorbed, and not looking at the situation in a more empathetic way.

Relax. We're just posters on a forum and I really don't see this strangely sick obsession you've mentioned. Even Wert posted how old he'd be when the series is done in the second entry in this thread. It was started in fun.

We're fans, we all read his plans to release ADWD shortly after AFFC, and many of us (including Wert) have posted our disappointment in the delays. With that said, there's nothing we can do about it, but that doesn't mean that posters won't come here from time to time to voice their disappointment.

 

[Eventine]

Worrying is like a rocking chair. It'll give you something to do but won't get you anywhere.

 

[Takoren]

Assuming the worst; that is, Martin doesn't finish Dance until 2009, doesn't finish The Winds of Winter until 2012 and pops out A Dream of Spring in 2015 (and that's not even the worst, not really), then I will be 37. Honestly I could be 40 before I read Spring.

This is so funny to read today. The "worst" is Dance not coming until 2009. Lol. WoW in 2012. Lol. "I could be 40 before I read Spring." I'm pretty sure I'll be 40 before I read Winds. Unless it drops before next year is over, I will be.

 

[Av Demeisen]

Let's see. George is 67 now. Assuming Spring will be published in George's winter upon his 97th birthday, I'll be old and grey myself. An uncomfortable thought.

 

[Takoren]

Let's see. George is 67 now. Assuming Spring will be published in George's winter upon his 97th birthday, I'll be old and grey myself. An uncomfortable thought.

Let me put it this way: I strongly doubt we will see The Winds of Winter until 2018 at best. Unless Martin suddenly gets it together and manages to get A Dream of Spring out by 2020 or so, I don't think we'll see it at all.

2008 me was so cute. I thought Dance would be out right away, despite the fact that Martin had, up until then, been promising it annually since 2005.

What I don't understand is what's keeping Winds so long. GRRM explained to us what the issues were that he was having getting the last two books out; he had to substantially alter his outline because his five-year-gap plan wasn't going to work. This created a lot of other issues, including the Meereenese Knot he spoke endlessly about, plus he had umpteen side projects that ate away at his time, and was traveling a lot and he doesn't write on the road. But he's cut down on those side projects substantially, including no longer writing for GOT, cut his travel schedule in half, and he's gotten over the hump created by removing the gap, and the Meereenese Knot is also a done deal.

But it's taken almost as long for Winds as it did for Dance and I have no doubt it will be longer.

Here's my prediction: Winds will drop somewhere between 2018 and 2020, and we'll be lucky to see Spring.

 

[hawkwind]

Winter isn't coming