NFL: Season 2005/05

[cheese]

I have got a question...Who do you guys think is going to take it all the way and win the superbowl other then your home team (unless their actually good).

 

[Banger]

The Giants have a weak secondary. But yeah, their offense is a LOT of fun to watch

 

[Hereford Eye]

Dear Ficus Fan:
The difference between a good quarterback and a great quarterback is the team around them. I think the record will show:
There have been no HoF quarterbacks who did not have offensive lines capable of buying them the time required to do their thing.
There have been no HoF quarterbacks who did not have above average receivers.
There have been no HoF quarterbacks who did not have a running game behind them to take the pressure off their passing game.
There have been no HoF quarterbacks who did not have a defense capable of stopping the other team when it mattered.
The Boy-Wonder-in-Boston was an average college quarterback because? He was an MVP quarterback in the pros because? Joe Namath made it to the HoF because his offensive line gave he and his knees twenty minutes to throw the ball.
When Favre has a team around him, he is as good as he ever was. When it sinks in that the only way to win is outscoring the other guys, that everything depends on his arm, then he takes chances he should not take. When he had good receivers with good hands, he could throw the same passes he throws today and somebody would catch them.

The wonderful thing about football is that it is a team sport. It takes everybody doing their job to be great. Isn't that what all the pundits have claimed for the Patriots for these last few years? And this year, you claim, not everybody is doing their job. Q.E.D.

Cheese: On the basis of defense winning superbowls, I have to go with Tampa Bay.

 

[Davis Ashura]

HoF quarterback that didn't have a good line in front of him or good running back behind him?
Dan Marino. The man never had a good running back to take the pressure off, nor did he have a good line. They could never seem to open up holes for any of their various first round running backs. Sure, they could pass protect and Marino went a season or two without a sack, but that was more because of his quick judgment and release and not because he was given all day.
Of course, he did have above average receivers (only early in his career) and a good defense (at times).
Brady is lucky. He is a great quarterback, but he also has an amazing team around him. I wonder how Peyton would do with that kind of defense and coaching around him? Or McNabb? Or Favre?

 

[kater]

Plus Marino may be the exception to the rule - but he doesn't have a ring

 

[FicusFan]

The boy-wonder-in-Boston, never lost a playoff game in College either. He was not average, he was just not appreciated, and they never put the time into him to make him great.

Favre is a goof. A HOF quarterback doesn't cross the line of scrimmage and then try to make a forward pass. A HOF quarterback doesn't flub a fake spike, a HOF quarteback who throws 5 interceptions ? Throwing incompletes can certainly be blamed on his O-line not protecting him, or his receivers dropping them but they can't be blamed for his poor judgement.

And wasn't it last year when they lost in the playoffs he made some stupid throw into the end zone when there was nobody on his team there, and killed them dead ? Favre is actually like a former boy-wonder-in-Boston: Doug Flutie. Doug will do anything to win, even if it makes him look foolish, but Favre, while perhaps being more talented than Flutie, lacks his judgement.

Favre wouldn't last in NE because Bill Belichick wouldn't put up with such stupidity.

The difference between a good quarterback and a great quarterback is the intangibles they bring to the game. They elevate their play when the chips are down, and they have the skills, and the judgement to put it all together under pressure, which sometimes means taking a sack, rather than throwing away their chances because they are trying too hard to win.

Yes the Pats are having their problems, and are not playing well, that doesn't change how Brady is playing, nor has it made him act stupidly.


Injuries or not the Packers fortunes will not change until they put Favre out to pasture. He may have been great once, but he has stayed too long at the fair.

Yes football is a team sport, but the team is made up of individuals who perform at or above their level, and who work together. When an individual sucks, you can't blame the team.

I have not examined all the HOF quarterbacks, but I am sure if I did I would find just as many no-names around them as there are stars. The nature of the beast is that the stars are prominently remembered and the no-names aren't, but that doesn't mean they aren't there. Sometimes no-names are just overlooked because they are not flashy but sometimes they are just average. I reject the idea that HOF quarterbacks are simply there because they were the top of a heap of stars.

Dear Ficus Fan:
The difference between a good quarterback and a great quarterback is the team around them. I think the record will show:
There have been no HoF quarterbacks who did not have offensive lines capable of buying them the time required to do their thing.
There have been no HoF quarterbacks who did not have above average receivers.
There have been no HoF quarterbacks who did not have a running game behind them to take the pressure off their passing game.
There have been no HoF quarterbacks who did not have a defense capable of stopping the other team when it mattered.
The Boy-Wonder-in-Boston was an average college quarterback because? He was an MVP quarterback in the pros because? Joe Namath made it to the HoF because his offensive line gave he and his knees twenty minutes to throw the ball.
When Favre has a team around him, he is as good as he ever was. When it sinks in that the only way to win is outscoring the other guys, that everything depends on his arm, then he takes chances he should not take. When he had good receivers with good hands, he could throw the same passes he throws today and somebody would catch them.

The wonderful thing about football is that it is a team sport. It takes everybody doing their job to be great. Isn't that what all the pundits have claimed for the Patriots for these last few years? And this year, you claim, not everybody is doing their job. Q.E.D.

Cheese: On the basis of defense winning superbowls, I have to go with Tampa Bay.

 

[FicusFan]

Brady is lucky. He is a great quarterback, but he also has an amazing team around him. I wonder how Peyton would do with that kind of defense and coaching around him? Or McNabb? Or Favre?

I agree Brady is lucky to have landed in NE, and to have such a good match with his coach. Brady's production is not based on luck, Brady is very, very good. Bledsoe did have such a team around him, and it made no difference.

Peyton is too selfish (stats and money) and seems to blame those around him when things go wrong. We had someone like that - Bledsoe, and Belichick benched him as soon as he could.

McNabb is constantly out of shape, and easily distracted (or whatever prevents him from thinking and reacting properly under pressure when quickness is needed), and Belichick would bounce him if he couldn't fix it, and he has shown no ability to be able to do that.

Favre is too desperate at this point in his carreer, when he was younger, who knows.

 

[Hereford Eye]

Let's see if I understand this correctly.
Favre has thrown 261 passes, completed 174 for 15 TDs; he's been intercepted 13 times.
Brady has thrown 249 passes, completed 157 for 9 TDs; he's been intercepted 4 times.
Favre has been sacked 17 times; Brady 13.
The Packers have converted 40 of 87 third down opportunities; the Patriots 32 of 90. The Packers have rushed for a whopping 510 yards while the Patriots have amassed an awesome 587.
The Packers have scored 158 points; the Patriots 159. OTOH, the Packers have given up 139 points while the Patriots have given up 179.
Brady still has his starting running back, his starting receivers, and his starting tight end. If I'm not mistaken, he's had them all season long.
On the basis these performances, Favre stinks and Brady is having a superlative year.

Wow! I really don't understand football at all.

 

[Davis Ashura]

Ficus, you must not have seen Brett when he was younger and had a) a solid offensive line b) a decent running back c) one good receiver and one ok receiver d) a stout defense. With those ingredients, he won three straight MVPs and led his team to two straight Super Bowls. To call him a goof is a stretch. I remember John Elway lining up behind his right guard one time in his second season. I remember Troy Aikman lofting balloons at the end of his career that invariably got picked. The point: even HoF make terrible decisions especially when the body can't do what the mind wants. The only quarterback that I can think of in the last 20 years that went out on top was John Elway. Let's see how Brady does when his physical skills fade. Or when his team no longer has playmakers. Even if at that point, Brady stinks and makes bad throws/reads, I wouldn't say he's a goof. I'd say he was still a shoe-in HoF.
As for Peyton being selfish, hmm. You're right, he got a huge contract and I don't blame him a bit given that NFL contracts aren't guaranteed. There are plenty of guys who get cut so the team doesn't have to pay them roster bonuses. Or release a guy who got injured. I also know someone who was a tight end for the Colts in Peyton's first two seasons. Selfish was not how this guy describes Peyton. Professional and hard-working were the words he used.
As for Bledsoe, he was never as good as advertised. He's had a penchant for starting a season strong and completely collapsing after game 8. You should still be paying the Dolphins LB that took him out to make way for Brady.

 

[FicusFan]

Wow! I really don't understand football at all.

To quote Troy Brown: "Bingo ! We have Bingo." You walked into that one.

 

[FicusFan]

Ficus, you must not have seen Brett when he was younger and had a) a solid offensive line b) a decent running back c) one good receiver and one ok receiver d) a stout defense. With those ingredients, he won three straight MVPs and led his team to two straight Super Bowls. To call him a goof is a stretch. I remember John Elway lining up behind his right guard one time in his second season. I remember Troy Aikman lofting balloons at the end of his career that invariably got picked. The point: even HoF make terrible decisions especially when the body can't do what the mind wants. The only quarterback that I can think of in the last 20 years that went out on top was John Elway. Let's see how Brady does when his physical skills fade. Or when his team no longer has playmakers. Even if at that point, Brady stinks and makes bad throws/reads, I wouldn't say he's a goof. I'd say he was still a shoe-in HoF.
As for Peyton being selfish, hmm. You're right, he got a huge contract and I don't blame him a bit given that NFL contracts aren't guaranteed. There are plenty of guys who get cut so the team doesn't have to pay them roster bonuses. Or release a guy who got injured. I also know someone who was a tight end for the Colts in Peyton's first two seasons. Selfish was not how this guy describes Peyton. Professional and hard-working were the words he used.
As for Bledsoe, he was never as good as advertised. He's had a penchant for starting a season strong and completely collapsing after game 8. You should still be paying the Dolphins LB that took him out to make way for Brady.

No I have never seen Brett play when he was younger. Here we see the Pats, or if they are not playing other AFC East Teams.

I think GBP demolished the Pats in their first SB appearance, and Brett was probably playing, but it was so lopsided that I didn't really watch. Too painful.

Yes I agree completely -- Favre is past his sell by date, and so should retire to preserve his reputation. He has not, and he is acting like a goof when he gets in a situation he can't get out of. It is hurting his rep and his team. They need to move on and because he stays around he gives them false hope. Football is about injuries as much as anything else. And QBs have to be able to adjust and play well with whoever is on the field, not wait for some mythical moment when everyone is healthy. Favre may have been able to adjust and compensate when he was younger, but now he can't.

As we speak I have the Steelers and GB on. They have scored 10 points at home with the Steelers having a 3rd string QB in, after having the ball for almost 17 minutes.

Manning takes all the money, and there is none left for others. And in terms of being pros, the offensive players (Colts) say Manning and some of his receivers can't be in the same room at the same time.

In terms of injuries and Brady:

PLAYER POSITION STATUS INJURY PRACTICE
Kevin Faulk RB Out Foot Missed Portion
Matt Light T Out Ankle Missed Portion
Troy Brown WR Questionable Foot Missed Portion
Corey Dillon RB Questionable Ankle Missed Portion
Tim Dwight WR Questionable Rib Missed Portion
David Givens WR Questionable Knee Missed Portion
Patrick Pass FB/RB Questionable Hamstring Missed Portion
Benjamin Watson TE Questionable Knee Missed Portion
Tom Brady QB Probable Right Shoulder

Thats the offense, and of them only Tom has been playing regularly. Corey was out until our last RB Patrick Pass popped a hamstring in the last game.


Randall Gay CB Questionable Ankle Missed Portion
Marquise Hill DE Questionable Ankle Missed Portion
Ellis Hobbs CB Questionable Thigh Missed Portion
Willie McGinest LB Questionable Finger Missed Portion
James Sanders S Questionable Ankle Missed Portion
Richard Seymour DE Questionable Knee Missed Portion
Ty Warren DE Questionable Hip Missed Portion

This is the defense. And of these only Willie (with a broken hand) has been playing reqularly.

This doesn't mention those who are gone for the season on IR. Or the 2 rookies he has on his O-Line on his blind side.

And it was a Jet, Moe Lewis who hit Bledose, and trust me we have a warm spot in our heart's for him. We probably would have a Moe Lewis day, except there are still those who have a soft spot (in the head ?) for Bledsoe. He was a first round pick, and never developed. He was greedy and wanted to play it safe in terms of his rep, so he would never play with any passion.

Edit:

Forgot to mention Brady is being interviewed on 60 Minutes tonight.

 

[kater]

The Bears win again Didn't think I'd see them and 'four-game winning streak' in the same sentence this season Chiefs are starting to look good again, Panthers dumped on the Buccs - say what you want about Delhomme but as long as he keeps finding Smith they'll be in ball games. HE I think your Buccs winning the SB notion may be flawed, the Panthers were the first better than .500 team they've played and man were they outplayed. Bengals won again, all credit to them this season. Steelers, Seattle, Giants and Falcons all roll on to 6-2, is it me or is Shaun Alexander having a wow of a season so far? He's almost got a 1000 already Colts and Pats is live here in the UK, should be interesting.

 

[Hereford Eye]

Yeah, I was wrong. Ficus Fan probably has it right. I'm over the hill or - like most fans - too committed to my own prejudices to see any other logic.

 

[kater]

I doubt that very much, ff and yourself are just equally one-eyed This year seems to be somewhat of a lottery trying to pick two teams for the SB, it really is going to depend on match-ups for the play-offs. I personally think the Colts are the most likely to be there but even then it's going to depend on their run-in.

 

[kater]

Well I watched it (finished at 4.30 am GMT ) and it's obvious that a full strength Pats team would have caused them major problems but the defence wasn't up to scratch. I'm surprised BB didn't have a few more plans to put the no-huddle offense out of kilter, that penalty for too many men on the field for the drive right at the end of the first half cost the Pats at least four points. Obviously some of it is down to personnel but the Pats could be this short for the whole season, luckily their remaining games are a nice run-in with only two .500 plus teams at present. It was a good game to watch though, that first ten minutes was awesome - I'd barely turned on the TV when PM threw the first touchdown pass and then the Pats drove right up the other end. One thing I noticed is that the Colts are running the ball a lot more than when I saw them last season, Edge's knee seems to be much stronger and they have more faith in him. The balance looks good for the Colts and barring injuries on a tough schedule for the next eight games, I can't see any reason why they won't be at the Bowl. It'll be interesting to see how the Bengals go against them next week.

 

[NeonKnight]

Lifelong GIANT fan here,and I do mean lifelong, the first game I attended was at Yankee stadium in 1968.

Needless to say, I am thrilled with the way the Giants have played so far this season. Not only am I excited about their chances this year, I am also looking forward to years of good QB play with Eli, after turnover machine Kerry Collins and the supremely untalented Dave Brown.

I have already witnessed plays by Eli that neither of those 2 clowns ever made in all their years of being the Giant QB. And weapons? Shockey, Plax, Toomer, Tiki, who does the defense double? Pick your poison, Ha Ha!

No I have never seen Brett play when he was younger. Here we see the Pats, or if they are not playing other AFC East Teams.

I think GBP demolished the Pats in their first SB appearance, and Brett was probably playing, but it was so lopsided that I didn't really watch. Too painful.

Yes I agree completely -- Favre is past his sell by date, and so should retire to preserve his reputation. He has not, and he is acting like a goof when he gets in a situation he can't get out of. It is hurting his rep and his team. They need to move on and because he stays around he gives them false hope. Football is about injuries as much as anything else. And QBs have to be able to adjust and play well with whoever is on the field, not wait for some mythical moment when everyone is healthy. Favre may have been able to adjust and compensate when he was younger, but now he can't.

Ficus, I love your posts and really respect your intellect and all that.

But you are so far off here, I felt compelled to comment.

Ficus, you simply cannot be serious when you say you are a Pats fan, yet you turned off the TV because they were losing? You want to bash Farve, yet you did not even watch the game where he reached the pinnacle of his career?

Man, a real fan sticks with his team, good times and bad. Last time the Giants were in the Super Bowl, they got their asses handed to them. I wasn't even tempted to turn it off, this is the Super Bowl after all.

You think Lion fans, for example, would like to see their team in the big game just once? Ass kicking or not, getting to the big game is special, and I feel, you might just be a bit spoiled by the Patriots great run. This is known as frontrunning Ficus, not something you want to be known for.

Farve is a sure Hall of Famer. Just because his entire team is on IR this year in no way tarnishes that fact.

So I guess you disagree with TO when he says "The Eagles would be undefeated with Farve."

 

[Surt]

I caught the Packers-Steelers game this sunday. GB's problem is not Favre - rather it's the players around Favre. With the exception of Donald Driver, all the quality players in the attacking line are injured. They used their #5 Running Back this sunday, which probably says it all (Kado actually played quite good, though!). The defense is also in a rebuilding phase, and I think that GB will probably be out of the play-offs in the next 3-4 years. One never knows, though, considering that they're in the worst division in the NFL.

Best teams right now (IMO)
1 - Colts
2 - Broncos
3 - Chargers/Giants/Panthers

 

[Davis Ashura]

Best two teams in the NFL right now seems like Pittsburgh and Denver. I'm not sold yet on Indy's secondary. Their line on the defensive side is good and fast, but the corners and safeties seem to give up the big play too easily sometimes.
We've got some great games coming up and Indy's second half schedule is going to be tough. They've got Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, San Diego, and Jacksonville.

 

[FicusFan]

Well I watched it (finished at 4.30 am GMT ) and it's obvious that a full strength Pats team would have caused them major problems but the defence wasn't up to scratch. I'm surprised BB didn't have a few more plans to put the no-huddle offense out of kilter, that penalty for too many men on the field for the drive right at the end of the first half cost the Pats at least four points. Obviously some of it is down to personnel but the Pats could be this short for the whole season, luckily their remaining games are a nice run-in with only two .500 plus teams at present. It was a good game to watch though, that first ten minutes was awesome - I'd barely turned on the TV when PM threw the first touchdown pass and then the Pats drove right up the other end. One thing I noticed is that the Colts are running the ball a lot more than when I saw them last season, Edge's knee seems to be much stronger and they have more faith in him. The balance looks good for the Colts and barring injuries on a tough schedule for the next eight games, I can't see any reason why they won't be at the Bowl. It'll be interesting to see how the Bengals go against them next week.

Sorry you had to stay up for such a sad game.

Yes their people are not up to scratch, but you are right there does seem to be a lack on the coaching end too. Some of the reason is that with people who are not able to complete the basics you can't get too fancy, but they didn't even seem to try.

The really sad thing is that at one point they only had 2 newbies on defense, the horrible Corner Back ("Toast") Duane Starks and someone named Stone who was maybe signed this past week and was playing Safety. But everyone else was a veteran Patriot from at least one SB team. The defense still sucked and it wasn't just because of those 2. It seems that individuals are trying and some do really well (Rosey Colvin) but they just can't seem to do it together or consistently.

The Colts were running the ball, which is one of the reasons they are doing so well. Not only are they eating the clock and keeping the other offense on the bench, but they are keeping their defense on the bench, and resting them. PMs 2:00 minutes and out scoring drives wore out his own defense.

Well I still have a soft spot (in my head) for the Pats. But I think Denver is also pretty strong, and defense or not, PM and the offense tend to fold under pressure, so it remains to be seen if they can do well in the playoffs. Not sure that the Pats game was real pressure since they were pretty bad on the field. Except for Tom, I felt so bad for him, he was so sad at the end.

Although the Pats have what looks like an easy schedule, they have been so bad that nothing is guaranteed. Buffalo almost beat them the week before. Also in the AFC East, no matter how bad the teams are in terms of their records when they play each other they always beat the crap out of each other. They are not as easy as they look.

I almost hope they don't make the playoffs because they are so weak, and being unable to win 2 in a row, they will get beaten.

 

[FicusFan]

Lifelong GIANT fan here,and I do mean lifelong, the first game I attended was at Yankee stadium in 1968.

Needless to say, I am thrilled with the way the Giants have played so far this season. Not only am I excited about their chances this year, I am also looking forward to years of good QB play with Eli, after turnover machine Kerry Collins and the supremely untalented Dave Brown.

I have already witnessed plays by Eli that neither of those 2 clowns ever made in all their years of being the Giant QB. And weapons? Shockey, Plax, Toomer, Tiki, who does the defense double? Pick your poison, Ha Ha!



Ficus, I love your posts and really respect your intellect and all that.

But you are so far off here, I felt compelled to comment.

Ficus, you simply cannot be serious when you say you are a Pats fan, yet you turned off the TV because they were losing? You want to bash Farve, yet you did not even watch the game where he reached the pinnacle of his career?

Man, a real fan sticks with his team, good times and bad. Last time the Giants were in the Super Bowl, they got their asses handed to them. I wasn't even tempted to turn it off, this is the Super Bowl after all.

You think Lion fans, for example, would like to see their team in the big game just once? Ass kicking or not, getting to the big game is special, and I feel, you might just be a bit spoiled by the Patriots great run. This is known as frontrunning Ficus, not something you want to be known for.

Farve is a sure Hall of Famer. Just because his entire team is on IR this year in no way tarnishes that fact.

So I guess you disagree with TO when he says "The Eagles would be undefeated with Farve."

I never said I turned off the TV, just that I didn't watch. Of course the TV was on, and I looked at it from time to time, but I didn't watch as in sit there with the TV as the sole focus of my attention.

Not watching when your team sucks does not make you less of a fan, it just means that you have reached the limit of your pain threshold.

You have no idea what it means to be a Pats fan. Prior to their current super run, what it means is that when things go bad, they can always get worse, and will. It means there is no hope, the light at the end of the tunnel is not a way out, its a train and it will not only not help you, but it will kill you. That is why you don't watch, because you have been there before you know the signs and once they put in an appearance its over, you just need to wait to bury the corpse.

And I don't care if the SB was the ultimate of Favre's career. Why should I care ? It makes no difference to me if he gets into the HOF or not. He isn't a Pat and he isn't of any interest to me, other than he is behaving like a goof and an embarrasment to have in the NFL in 2005/6.

I also have no interest in TO, and no I don't agree with much of what he says because he is a showboat. I do however think there is something wrong with McNab, prior to his injuries.

Generally I don't know anything about players on other teams. If they come to my attention it means they are either really good or really bad, because those are the extremes that get continued media coverage (headlines).

I have no idea what Frontrunning is, but here we have something called 'jumping on the band wagon'. It means that you are only a fan when times are good and they are winning. Having been a fan since the days (and before) when they got beat in the SB by GB, it is not possible for me to be a band wagon-er. I have been there through thick and thin.