Rugby - formerly 6Nations, formerly WRC

[kater]

Originally posted by Jacquin


The reason they didn't score then was simply because the guy with the ball tried to run it rather than passing left to a huge hole in our defense.

Yeah I didn't say that, he should have passed but then having not passed Kay should not have killed the ball which probably would have been used on the substantial overlap on the right Italy had, it was a yellow card and Italy playing against 14 might have done better. It was a hypothetical and one of several occasions I was disappointed with the referee.

Originally posted by Jacquin

So we agree he is class, that's a start! There was no defender in the world who would have been able to stop him on his first scoring run. He left Wakarua trailing in his wake.

Again you seem to be misquoting me - he's class but Wakarua isn't exactly a world class defender and I'm sure someone like Umaga would have stopped him.

Originally posted by Jacquin

Yes we would not be the same team without him, but that's exacty what you said about JW and MJ. The fact is that we have the best players and so we win. If we didn't have them we probably wouldn't but as we have more brilliant players than we allowed to field we will continue to win.

Errrr no, you won against suitably inferior opposition, you didn't look anywhere near as convincing without JW or MJ and were it not for JR you would have been almost as dour and stodgy (technical term ) as the Italians. Your backline looked lost on multiple occasions and beyond JR's brilliance you didn't really create much of note or worth.

Originally posted by Jacquin

Yeah, we made the fatal mistake of scoring points by kicking, that automatically invalidates the fact that we won.

More misquoting, sometimes I wonder if you even read my posts I said nothing about scoring points or the validity of your win. I was expressing the fact that England once again went for the less adventuresome and attacking option, which I felt was part of the reason why such a talented backline failed to fire, with the exception of JR.

Originally posted by Jacquin

I was a little disappointed by Paul, but then after his last appearance I think he is wise to play it safe. He didn't do anything spectacular but he held his own.

I think just as I said during the WC, the telling point about England is that they win even when they play way off their best. The same cannot be said for any of the other teams in the cup.

Exactly Paul summed/sums up England I'd point to France not playing well and still putting 35 pts on Ireland, I don't think this England team could have and it'll be interesting to see how you progress

Hey 42 - long time, no see. I think all the attacking they did in the first half tired them out It was a case of the Scots eventually boring us to death, our own error count didn't help toward the end, we just couldn't retain ball for decent periods. Ireland in Dublin should be interesting, I hope we win just so there's the chance we can shove it up the IRB and their bent tournament scheduling.

 

[Jacquin]

Originally posted by kater


Yeah I didn't say that, he should have passed but then having not passed Kay should not have killed the ball which probably would have been used on the substantial overlap on the right Italy had, it was a yellow card and Italy playing against 14 might have done better. It was a hypothetical and one of several occasions I was disappointed with the referee.

I'm not trying to defend a foul but I think the try was lost the second the pass wasn't made.

Again you seem to be misquoting me - he's class but Wakarua isn't exactly a world class defender and I'm sure someone like Umaga would have stopped him.

Oh come on, he was metres clear and he wasn't even trying. Put anyone you want in the position of Wakarua and he'd still have scored.

Errrr no, you won against suitably inferior opposition, you didn't look anywhere near as convincing without JW or MJ and were it not for JR you would have been almost as dour and stodgy (technical term ) as the Italians. Your backline looked lost on multiple occasions and beyond JR's brilliance you didn't really create much of note or worth.

I thought the Italians played harder and more competantly than they often do. Ok they were still Italy but as you said, they didn't take the wooden spoon last time and I don't think it'll happen this time.

More misquoting, sometimes I wonder if you even read my posts I said nothing about scoring points or the validity of your win. I was expressing the fact that England once again went for the less adventuresome and attacking option, which I felt was part of the reason why such a talented backline failed to fire, with the exception of JR.

Sorry, I know I get defensive when the subject of kicking comes up. I just get annoyed by the fact that when the Blacks or the Wallabies win even the 'boks people are happy to give them the credit they deserve, but when England win it is either because it was a fluke and they didn't deserve it or because they aren't playing proper rugby.

Saying with the exception of JR is a little unfair, Lewsey played well, his partnership with JR is something that is going to become feared the world over I'd say.

Exactly Paul summed/sums up England I'd point to France not playing well and still putting 35 pts on Ireland, I don't think this England team could have and it'll be interesting to see how you progress

The team went out to consolidate their previous form with new players on board and they did exactly that. The important thing was to secure the win and give the new players experience of playing serious rugby at a high level. It wasn't the highest level but it did the job, and so did England. I have every faith that we will continue to do so.

J

 

[kater]

Originally posted by Jacquin
but when England win it is either because it was a fluke and they didn't deserve it or because they aren't playing proper rugby.

They aren't (cheap shot )

Originally posted by Jacquin

Saying with the exception of JR is a little unfair, Lewsey played well, his partnership with JR is something that is going to become feared the world over I'd say.

Hopeful I think, apart from the try which was decent if painful defending I didn't think his work rate was as high as Cohen's. Plus I think it inevitable that Tindall will return to 12 when fit and JR will end up on the wing or fullback.

Originally posted by Jacquin

The team went out to consolidate their previous form with new players on board and they did exactly that. The important thing was to secure the win and give the new players experience of playing serious rugby at a high level. It wasn't the highest level but it did the job, and so did England. I have every faith that we will continue to do so.

J

None of the players that played from outside the WC winning team were uncapped, and other than Balshaw all were part of the WC squad - England should have made a real statement today about life after MJ and possibly JW but instead played it safe. A shallow allegation in all fairness but in style of play if not in result England flatter to deceive and to be honest is frustrating for rugby fans in general.

 

[fluffy bunny]

Originally posted by kater
England should have made a real statement today about life after MJ and possibly JW but instead played it safe.

Or they're playing it tactically Better not to let the cat out of the bag as to their true potential until it's needed.

Considering all the analysis the BBC tried to do prematch, it's not surprising that they're not letting the other teams in the tourney get much of an impression as to where their weaknesses lie.

 

[kegasaurus]

Originally posted by fluffy bunny


Or they're playing it tactically Better not to let the cat out of the bag as to their true potential until it's needed.

Cat was out of the bag before the WC, still no one can answer it.

Originally posted by Jacquin

but when England win it is either because it was a fluke and they didn't deserve it or because they aren't playing proper rugby.

Originally posted by kater

They aren't (cheap shot )

What Kater (or should I say El 'Tel 'Katerooni) is getting at is that they aren't playing traditional English rugby, which is to lose at all costs.

He probably isn't, but just to add some spice, here's a quote from the great man himself after being asked a question from his dogsbody:


Edmund: Have you ever been to Wales, Baldrick?

Baldrick: No, but I've often thought I'd like to.

Edmund: Well don't, it's a ghastly place. Huge gangs of tough sinewy men roam the valleys terrifying people with their close harmony singing. You need half a pint of phlegm in your throat just to pronounce the placenames. Never ask for directions in Wales Baldrick, you'll be washing spit out of your hair for a fortnight.

 

[fortytwo]

Originally posted by kegasaurus






Edmund: Have you ever been to Wales, Baldrick?

Baldrick: No, but I've often thought I'd like to.

Edmund: Well don't, it's a ghastly place. Huge gangs of tough sinewy men roam the valleys terrifying people with their close harmony singing. You need half a pint of phlegm in your throat just to pronounce the placenames. Never ask for directions in Wales Baldrick, you'll be washing spit out of your hair for a fortnight.

That's just a load of codswallop............ when did you ever see Baldrick wash his hair.

42

 

[kater]

It is of course Friday and thus necessary to resurrect this thread again

So the games this week are:
Ireland vs Wales
Scotland vs England
France vs Italy

Sooooooooo Wales are going to have a really tough time in Ireland I believe and I think the Irish pack is going to be too big for Wales, so I'm going to say Ireland by five
Scotland are going to get massacred - we should have done it last week, England will do it this week by forty five points.
France are going to struggle against Italy, I don't know why but I have a feeling it may be relatively close, France by twelve.
Bring on the rugby already

 

[Jacquin]

England will beat Scotland, Wales, Ireland and France in one go and will be awarded the Cup for all eternity...

Ok maybe not but I can dream.

England by 30 points

Not sure about Wales/Ireland, don't think there'll be more than 6 points in it either way.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say Italy by a couple of tiny little points...

J

 

[wildfire]

Ireland v Wales will be close though i think Ireland will shade it.
England are certain to win, and France should be to strong for Italy.

 

[Blabla]

Originally posted by Jacquin
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say Italy by a couple of tiny little points...

Of course, after Italy beats France and Scotland England, the two will fight each other in the likely Cup-decider match next week... err yeah

My pronostics:
England to beats the Scots but it will be harder than some might think.
France beats Italy by, say 32 points but the Azzuri will score a try at least
Ireland wins by 8 points after a first half to the advantage of the Welsh

 

[Blabla]

Just watched France vs Italy. Simply awful. Terrible. Whatever. Magne

I'm just so disgusted. And this missed try by Dominici must be the joke of the new millenium. Were it not for Imanol, France would really have been in trouble. Bleh

 

[kater]

LOL there wasn't a hole big enough in the world for Dominici to crawl into, v. funny - France looked so disinterested it was beyond belief, I hope they play like that in two weeks time against us
Sorry J but England were pretty terrible, they didn't have a clue in the backline and were without invention, even the kicking game was poor until the last fiftten minutes I thought the first half was good, apart from the terrible try decision, and was looking forward to a decent second half only for the referee to rob the match of all significance by allowing a second non-try and penalising Scotland off the park, the Scots deserved more - the refereeing in the Six Nations with one or two exceptions (Chris White is imo the best ref around at the moment) has been very poor and they really need to sort it out.

 

[Jacquin]

You blame the ref for that? Were we watching the same game?

The knock on was questionable, you have to go with the ref's call and he can only call it from the angle he could see it. I assume that the other you mention was the possible off-side before Lewsey's try. I reckon it was fine. It was a scrappy try from a scrappy defense against an even scrappier attack but it was legal.

The problem was that both sides were abysmal. Lewsey played some nice rugby but even as one of his biggest fans I don't think he could win single handedly. Cohen was ok but that's about as much as I can say.

I suppose a win is a win at the end of the day.

France vs Italy on the other hand was.... no that was crap too.

Lets hope tomorrow brings some more entertainment.

 

[Jacquin]

T'was a fine game to be sure...

Obviously it was all the ref's fault, after all he only sent off one of the Irish players and only ignored one forward pass on the tryline.

A lot more fun to watch. I'd say the welsh pack looked completely outclassed. The Irish are now the ones to beat imho.

 

[Sammie]

Okay, I'm gonna be really brave and attempt to join in here.

Now I'm the first person to admit that I know next to nothing about rugby, but over the last few months I seem to have been exposed to increasingly high doses of it (I wonder why... ) and I'm getting kinda into it. Into watching it that is - not understanding it necessarily. Indeed if I say - 'what did he do wrong that time?' once more, I'm liable to get several empty cans of Foster's thrown at me. But like I said - I'm enjoying it, and I'm getting there .

Today was the first time I have seen either team play, I think - and the impression that match gives a relative know-nothing like myself is that the Irish have themselves a very tight, well disciplined team - and the Welsh, frankly, don't. I know this is just one game and it's a little unfair to judge them on it, but even I could see the holes in their defence, and a lack of co-ordination between the players. Admittedly I saw very little of the first half, but I'm kinda assuming the score speaks for itself there. The last 10 minutes were completely different - suddenly Wales was all over the place, and Ireland was being forced to play a really defensive game..... (and I was being given sidelong looks by 'He Who Deemed That The Rugby Should Be Put On In The First Place' for cheering on the 'crap' team ) ....but it really was rather too late by then.

Umm yeah, so the impression I got was that Ireland rocked, especially the cute blond one with the sore leg (man he was running through gaps that didn't look like they were even there), and I'm looking forward to seeing them play England.

Ok K - you may tell me how biased and wrong I am now

 

[Blabla]

Originally posted by Sammie
Umm yeah, so the impression I got was that Ireland rocked, especially the cute blond one with the sore leg

I believe you are refering to Brian O'Driscoll- he is indeed a fantastic player, as he proved today once again. Ireland is another team entirely with him. I liked D'Arcy also, he was already good against France. O'gara was intelligent, but his defence is rather poor.

I thought that the Irish exposed Wales' weak points today: a pack lacking in power, and a glaring deficiency in the area of tactical kicking. The Irish played intelligently with and against the wind, whereas the Welsh did not IMO. Also it seems that some Welsh players were too individualistic in their effort, a tendency that is alas not new. And the defence is sorely lacking.

It will be another story next time with Wales playing France at home.

 

[kater]

*Long ........ ponderous ............ sigh*
I knew it was going to go mammaries up when I put my welsh shirt on this morning, it just felt wrong and I have concluded from my fellow countrymen's diabolicism that having a tattoo reading 'False Dawn ....... again' would not look out of place. At this time I have no inclination to reply to J's strutting and as I can only assume J put you up to it Sam I'm going to ignore your insolence ..... I mean ignorance Welcome to the trenches

 

[fluffy bunny]

have to say, I was impressed by the Scottish and Irish teams this week. Ireland really knocked the wind out of Wales from the start, and only got tired in the last 20 mins. Did the irish and welsh players swap shirts at the beginning of the match or something? It would seem so given the complete reversal of both teams' performances from last week.

As for the big 2- France and England, I have to say their performances have been pretty lacklustre, and I'm thinking that if they play the way they've been playing, a team putting on a spirited performance could manage to hold them.

 

[Jacquin]

Originally posted by kater
At this time I have no inclination to reply to J's strutting and as I can only assume J put you up to it Sam I'm going to ignore your insolence ..... I mean ignorance Welcome to the trenches

That's a little harsh coming from the man who derides England however well they play.

I did indeed get S to post here, I've been subjecting her to the Rugby for a while now and as she seemed to enjoy that match I thought it would be nice to have another voice in this thread. Her opinions however I hold no responsibilty for, anyone with eyes to see could tell Wales were outclassed, mentioning it is neither insolent nor ignorant imho.

 

[kater]

Originally posted by Jacquin


That's a little harsh coming from the man who derides England however well they play.

They play well? When did that happen, why am I not told these things

Originally posted by Jacquin
I did indeed get S to post here, I've been subjecting her to the Rugby for a while now and as she seemed to enjoy that match I thought it would be nice to have another voice in this thread. Her opinions however I hold no responsibilty for, anyone with eyes to see could tell Wales were outclassed, mentioning it is neither insolent nor ignorant imho.

I see through your plot J You wanted another partisan voice extolling the virtues of mediocre running rugby and predictable up front grunt Wales were out classed, I didn't say otherwise.
As regards the insolence/ignorance joke - it was simply a reference to an e-mail where Moderator Sammie said she thought she'd have to break us up during the WC - now she joins in, which to me was amusing hence the smiley faces