Rugby - formerly 6Nations, formerly WRC

Very diplomatic, I'm not in the mood for that so I'll withhold comment beyond pointing out that we aren't going to be 'training' against the AB's.
 
Another game, another poor performance. The Lions momentum really has been stifled by team selections in the last few days. There are at my estimate about six or seven players who don't deserve to be on the Lions tour, some played today and made themselves plainly obvious. Matt Stevens and John Hayes hold your hands up as two of the laziest, least effective scrummaging prop forwards in the history of Lions tours. Tom Smith and the three Welsh props were left behind for these two ass-draggers? Bah. Titterell -I-want-to-be-a-no10 instead of Mefin Davies? Michael Owen was useless again - he just isn't physical enough for this type of game without a front five laying the platform. Moody and Williams I thought had good games behind two second rows who played well but just aren't quite making enough of an impression to gain greater recognition.

I'm not sorry if this appears to be a Welsh rant because it is, Sidoli and Cockbain are technically better rugby players than all but POC in the second row, DOC and Kay shouldn't be there. Cooper is clearly injured and shouldn't have been taken, that other scot who played better than Cusiter for Scotland should have had a chance. O'Gara is caught between his natural game and feeling the need to play some rugby. We could have done with his natural game today.

Henson - sky sports man of the match and the third consecutive Welsh man to be so, scored the only two tries of the game, put in some hits and looked solid. Why they aren't using his boot off tee and out of hand much more is beyond me. Ollie Smith - who? Did he play? Again shouldn't have gone on tour, Shanklin did more in five minutes than Smith did in sixty. What a waste of a tour spot. It was obvious Shanklin and Henson were comfortable together and looked dangerous in the fifteen or so minutes they had. Hickie is out of his depth, Murphy is too greedy and kills space for others and Cueto is just plain unlucky. He tries to get involved but barely gets a pass, or gets the ball and three men. Bulloch has been average on tour, fills a role but nothing more. Sheridan has to consider himself seriously unlucky, made a huge impact at scrum time and carrying the ball forward - must be mystified why he's been left out for Graham Rowntree, another player who shouldn't have made the tour. I could go on but it'd be pointless, the test team should be disgustingly interesting if nothing else.

Keg - told you Marshall would start :D Amazed they played Howlett over Gear, other than that pretty much the obvious AB's team. They look worryingly strong, oh dear...
 
kater said:
Keg - told you Marshall would start :D Amazed they played Howlett over Gear, other than that pretty much the obvious AB's team. They look worryingly strong, oh dear...
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I stil prefer Kelleher, but that goes against my other idea of having an all Crusader backline. Nice to see Jono Gibbes on the bench and If Oliver gets back in time for the second and third tests I think this AB team will be nigh on invulnerable.

The big question is do the Lion's forwards have a coach, or any idea what they're doing? Every game it looks as though both teams have one goal and that is to kill Lions ball. It didn't help with the choices at nine and Ten - (O'gara's first action was to hear footsteps and throw the ball forward as he covered himself up, getting hit five minutes later,) as every ball seemed to go to the other backs feet, two foot in front of them or they had to wait until they were hit by both ball and tackler at the same time. I liked Murphy's lateral run that got him away from everyone except the Southlander's, then after Henson and Shanklin got the break, Murphy threw the ball willy nilly to the Southlander's, with two guys clear on his right.

I don't think Shanklin has had a bad game and will be fighting Henson for a place in the second test. Go All Blacks and c'mon on Saturday, at 5:30pm and then again for the big match at 11:00 pm.
 
Sir Clive, teh ego. I think at about 1 in hte morning you might want ot go out and walk the streets, because for a hundred bucks you'll find better than a Lion. Yes taht is a hooker reference. I've never seen four pathetic and useless hookers in my life. What a bunch of fools. If this is the best that the British Isles have then there's four teams that are in trouble. Pathetic. Imagine what Oliver would have done (Probably not cleared out O'Driscoll.)

As for Sir Clive, well he quit English rugby because they ouldn't give him untold power (we all understand why,) Picked a bunch of Englishmen because he thought he was better than Andy Robinson and Robinson must have been coaching to lose and just lost to the guy who he condemned on the last Lions tour. Pathetic.

Adam Jones, well you can hold your head high. You were the only positional winner against quite possibly the best team going at hte moment. He played with passion, he played with pride and at no stage did he go English. Unlike Woodward.

if it hadn't been raining/hailing then the AB's would easily have won by around a million. Look for this team to be playing mid-week and bring in Shanklin/Henson.

Australia looks good though, bring on the French, South Africa and the All Black's.
 
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You mean Ryan Jones - Adam Jones was the best tighthead in the six nations and never made the tour, along with the safest hooker in the six nations and only national hooker not to go, Mefin Davies :D
Shanklin is out of the tour so the wing is now a questionable position - CW doesn't like Cueto or Shane Williams, but with O'Driscoll finished and Robinson, Greenwood and Smith being deadweights the backline looks in even more trouble - will he call up even more players? The dominant front five weren't dominant, Neil Back and Corry were distinctly second best, Wilkinson and Jones couldn't decide who was playing ten and any ball the wings saw was kicked away. Add in Peel going for some plain stupid quick tap penalties and eighteen points was a miracle. Given the ideal conditions for the Lions it should have been closer but in the end they were lucky to survive a blow-out. Sivivatu on a dry day will be an absolute nightmare. Henry has Woodward's number, especially when he is unencumbered of all the nonsense that seems part and parcel of a lions tour now. Tuesday's team should be very interesting.
 
Isn't it sad that a guy from Australia is calling for Adam Jones? I'd love to see Jones with Jenkins, with Jones and Jones, and Jones and Davies and Jones and Schalk Burger and Jones........ Ah the hell with it. I'll see Wales v's the best in the world in your Autumn. Latham v Thomas Williams v Tuquiri, by god I love Gethin jenkins. I also like Like Cockbain, I wish he was ...........what's that name... Cockbain...Australian... Cockbain... Australian... Wales... Australia...




Ryan Jones, You are............
 
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Because this is the only place (as a southerner) that I can discuss Rugby, Carter is the best 10 on the planet, Kelleher over Marshall, because unlike the complete Marshall, kelleher offers more, Ryan jones is the best 8 going around. Wings are a dime adozen, unless your playing someone worthy and big 'Dell, i owe you an apology.

In the real world I would be praying for a kicker, Maybe bring Flatley back at ten, we'd lose Larkham's great running game (best on the planet,) bring RRoger's in at 13, means we have more options to cover Larkham's loss, and I htink we'd have the perfect game. (Well as perfect as a country with useless forwards can claim to be.) Rocky Elsom has made sure that Smith and Waugh will now fight each other positionally, Chisolm has made Sharpe realise that Vickerman might be the vicker man. Get rid of Young for Dunning and maybe we could finally compete.

Has to be said, where was Henson? I thinkhe had one touch in the Lions game and was last next to Robinson. Both players are sadly lacking in confidence and need to realise that as internationals that they cant afford to be succeptible to our individual over thinking. Williams got destroyed, Gear did nothiing in attack, but defensively he gets back in over Howlett (No one uses the 14, except for Australia, who has an over reliance...,)the Lions are missing Shankilin in the centres, disallowing Thomas to play his normal game. having said that, the fisrt AB try was a result of three Welsh missing tackles.

Doesn't matter, series is over. it's been fun and all we are watching for now is whether Rokocoko can get back into form and destroy a third string Lion side.
 
Yeah it was a pretty good test, you could see how much it meant to some of them - especially Gareth Thomas, by how mad he was at some of the calls. I think the officials had a shocker of a game for both sides, there were knock-ons, penalties and off the ball incidents that the touchie's really should have sorted out as the breakdown ended up being a mess. The Lions just ran out of steam, you can see most of them haven't played enough rugby on this tour to be at the level to compete for 80 minutes against the Blacks.

I thought Carter and McCaw were outstanding although bad knock for Carter at the end, looks like he may miss the third test - but it doesn't matter the horse has bolted anyway. I think Sivivatu is scary, more than even Rokocoko - with Joe you knew he'd try and toast you on the outside or hit you with the spin move, with SS you just don't know what the hell he is going to do. Ptiy Shane Williams didn't have the time and space he did.

A lot of people can disagree with me but JW shouldn't have been there. He was there for his kicking but missed a few, his shoulder as is now evident was never right and he missed most of his tackles on the inside shoulder. For all his guts, he doesn't have a safe tackling technique - he hurt his shoulder by trying to smash someone using the wrong shoulder and body position. He can only tackle with the one shoulder and that's the busted one. Everyone in world rugby will run at him on the inside shoulder from now on, he will be targeted and may end up having to go back to full-back on defense for club and country. Another disappointing player was Paul O'Connell - Jack and Williams made him look second rate, he didn't take restart ball all night, he takes the ball on too far and gets isolated, he isn't great around the park and he sure as hell isn't a leader, let alone the new Martin Johnson as some fools have been saying.

One of the key areas for me was fitness, the English and Irish players aren't fit enough - Doncha O'Callaghan was anonymous, White and Rowntree do sweet f.a. in the loose and they certainly aren't the greatest scrummagers in the world. I thought the back row was competitive even though Moody gives away too many penalties. Henson was anonymous and tbh I don't think he's fit, I think he's still carrying that groin strain. JRob, Lewsey and Shane Williams didn't seem to have much ball and Lewsey isn't as effective at full-back because he doesn't get involved as much. Peel had another so-so game and Gareth Thomas was head and shoulders above them all, he's a champion player and it was a pity that even a perfomance as good as his couldn't lift the other Lions to the necessary level. The tour was lost before they even got on the plane in retrospect and certainly after the first test. I think CW's reputation has dropped a long way, he was living on two years of borrowed time and it caught up with him. Good riddance. Time to start saving for SA in four years - when all the young welsh boys should be at their peak after four consecutive Grand Slam seasons :D

Marshall over Kelleher because Byron is too much of an individual in a team with so many strike players that the link between forwards and backs needs to integrate the two. One game doesn't make you the best 10 on the planet, especially when that team has just played a nine month season, been shellacked all round NZ then thrown together as an emergency plan B when plan A went out the universe not just the window. It's not hard to play going forward with that much ball and that many world class players around you. The Wendell monster still needs ball in the open spaces and his hands are very much under appreciated by everyone other than me ;) Dropping Larkham is suicidal, why not give Mortlock the kicking duties again or given his love of injuries recently just put Rogers at 13 - although his kicking percentage isn't great. Elsom is a big donkey and stands no chance of keeping out Waugh or Smith. It'll be interesting to see how SA and Aus play against each other in the Mandela cup because that will show who's likely to finish second behind the AB's in the Tri-Nations (don't even dream of saying it - NZ joint best team in the world). One final thought - how long before Luaki displaces Collins or So'ioalo?
 
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It's been fifty years, New Zealand are the best team on the planet. Here's hoping Mehrtens/marshall get teh start on Saturday, a fitting send off for two of the greats.
 
Is Mehrtens in the picture? I thought they were picking from the Junior AB's and he isn't in that squad I think :confused: One thing you can say about Henry and NZ rugby is that they aren't sentimental, Kelleher will probably play and they may blood a young 10 - Gopperth maybe?
 
There was talk at the end of the super 12 that if Carter was to go down, Mehrtens may be drafted in, but I can't remember if it was Henry talk. He wasn't going to take another ten in as they also had Mauger and he was the backup to Carter. Hell, we might even get to seee Carlos play 12 Now both Carter and Mauger are gone. Would they still win? Who knows, but could you imagine the roar...
 
I think they'd only let King Carlos play 10 but it would be a fitting end to his too brief NZ career, hell give him and Mehrtens a half each :D Nonu will invariably play 12 so I don't think the Lions will get much change there... unfortunately.
 
So NZ lose in SA, with all due respect to SA, to a dodgy ref who completely changed his interpretation of the breakdown compared to the Lions test. It's all well and good when it's a british team but when it's their own teams .... Then to cap it off Spreadbury had a top game and NZ destroyed Australia (albeit an Australia team shorn of most of the backline) although both games followed the same pattern. NZ seem to be slow starters and went down by 10+ pints in the first 20mins in both games, but once they get going it's impressive - Australia could have losy by a tonne more points, be interesting to see how NZ go at home.
 
I was looking for something Kater said, but this caught my eye.

Jacquin said:
But Henson is a centre isn't he? And he is famed for his stupid spikey red hair...

Hmmm, another one of Keg's predictions. Looking back through this thread you seem to have a long standing habit of getting it wrong. I think the team that went out against Maori was not even close to the test team CW is gonna pick. I think he saw it as a lot less important than we seem to.

I'd guess the team that's playing Wellington will be closer.

We'll see though.
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This was my prediction (I apologise for teh spmelling.):

"c'mon, you nknow that Henson is little Wilkonson, and that Sir Clive is in trouble. By God the Lions had better bhope that the AB's stop running and start looking around. 3 - 0 All Blacks and unfortunately a close tri-nations."

...but that's not why I'm here.

I'd like to reinforce that Australia has the worlds best backline and the worlds worst forwards. It's time for Sharpe to go, Young to make place for, well some south African expatriote the Force are trying to bring in and for me and the rest of Australia to shut up because now Greegs has shown that he is more than willing to go forward. his tackle at the twenty minute stage showed that he heard, his run at teh twenty five minute mark showed that he cared and his play for the rest of the game kept it close. Gerrard finally stood up, those hammy's keeping him down, and Matt Rogers showing that he does know about Union.

The spring tour will be brilliant and as an Australian rugby fan I'll be looking forward to two games.

1. Wales v New Zealand. The two best teams on the planet. What else can I say. and

2. Ireland v New Zealand. I think even O'gara will realise teh relevance of this one.

Of course my big game is Wales/Australia which we will win because... well hell, we are Australia, and it feels like 1986 (except for teh losing.)

I love Andrew Gaze.
 
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Yeah tbh I'm not quite sure what to make of the tri-nations. The quality wasn't a patch on the last two years, which was pretty much down to Australia having a ludicrous amount of injuries. What never fails to amaze me is how Oz always seem to pull some young kid out of a few games first-grade and have them play like veterans at test matches. Although Drew Mitchell had a bit of a mare today that's a kid who will be playing a lot of test rugby in the future, especially when Latham calls it quits :D
Overall SA are SA, they play a forwards game, hunt mistakes and give the ball to Habana who wasn't really put under pressure during the four games so a wet and windy Ireland/England/Scotland might be interesting for him. I think SA will get penalised a fair bit more in the Northern Hemisphere for their defence and the occasional cheap shot off the ball - is Byron Kelleher still concussed? :D

Australia are impossible to tell, their front five are poor so that will put them on the backfoot against the bigger NH packs and forward-orientated games, but that backline - if fit - is great to watch. Trouble is with end-of-season touring, will the players be up for it and will those carrying knocks be given time off to rest? Once the squads are announced it will become clearer.

New Zealand. Probably the strangest team of all because they just seem to switch off for 20mins in each game. To begin with it was the first twenty and then more recently the 10mins periods either side of half-time. They have awesome depth, quality all round the park, gas to burn but without a 10 they seem to play within themselves. I think they can be beat and the SA style is how to play it, meaning England (rips out own tongue) will be best suited to play them. If they play Wales in decent weather it will be a rip-roaring game but I think they have too much fire-power for Wales.

I forsee Wales just losing to SA, beating Aus in a close try-fest :D and losing to NZ by 15.
 
Nevyn said:
LOL!! :D
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It's Andy Gaze.

Kater said:
LOL!! :D
I forsee Wales just losing to SA, beating Aus in a close try-fest and losing to NZ by 15.
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I see Wales destroying Australia, beating the rarefied South Africa and succumbing to NZ because they are the best teams on planet Earth at the moment(Wales/NZ). The more Welshmen brought into the Lions squad, teh closer they got, although alot of them will be coming off surgery.

All I care about (Coming form a semi-psychotic sporting family (Aussie rules rules wise (Go Swans))) Is the redemption of Brian O'Driscoll. If Ireland doesn't stand up, then I'll be a little dissapointed, particularly as I just watched teh Lion's DVD's.
 
Yeah the list of injuries for the Welsh team that won the Grandslam kinda sucks although most should be fit to play come the autumn internationals - whether they'll be match hardened is another thing. The big bright spot for Welsh rugby at the moment is the current Powergen cup where the four Welsh regions get to mix it with the English clubs. After a seemingly endless queue of pundits taking their turn to bash the Celtic League and hyping the Guinness Premiership out of all proportion, the Welsh regions won three out of the four games including 25-1 outsiders the Dragons beating 3-1 favourites Leicester. More than that though the Welsh region scored far more tries in convincing victories. The region to lose were the Ospreys who were short four (good) British Lions and were penalised off the park by a crap English ref. Now I'm sure the English teams thought the same about the Welsh refs when the two English teams (Leicester and Saracens) played down in Wales this weekend so it begs the question why have home refs when we could use the Scots/Irish - we all know they're pedantic to the point of insanity but at least it would have worked both ways. What's hopeful for the Welsh team come November is that with such early exposure to quality games in both the Celtic League, Powergen and a few Heineken cup games they will have plenty of match-hardened players to pick from in comparison with the tri-nations teams practically in their off-season. Having watched a lot of Currie Cup for the last few weeks I have to say SA rugby looks immensely strong at the moment.
 
No not really. He's a world class player no doubt, but SA showed if you put him under pressure he's as vulnerable as anyone. But for 90% of the time he is going to get so much clean or turnover ball from a very good pack and with so many threats outside him, he'll be able to play from the armchair. It'll be interesting to see how he does against England, assuming England put in a decent performace against Australia. England have the grunt to more than match the AB's, whether they can compete on the ground is a big question mark - especially if McCaw plays, and they've picked two tackling centres with big wings so there isn't going to be a lot of room for the AB's to play with. Personally I'm amazed Henry left Holah behind, sure Masoe's a decent player but Holah would have to be the second best openside in the world. Are the Poms gonna smash you tomorrow Keg :D ?
 
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