The White Luck Warrior Thread

[3rdI]

I've thought about picking up the second series, but considering I didn't much like the end of the first one (top of the list: I wanted Kellhus's dad to whoop on him some) I've shied away. But if there is less philosophizing (and less Kellhus--I'm not bothered by him, just tired of the philosophy attached to him) going on then I might read it after all. By the end of TTT I felt like I was reading a philosophic dissertation (hyperbole, but you get the point).

Interesting. I had quite the opposite reaction as the philosophical tone along with Kellhus kicking the bleep out of everyone made the trilogy for me. All joking aside Bakker touched on topics rarely broached in fantasy. The complexity of PON is part of what sets it apart. He has moved away from that in The Aspect-Emperor and while his writing is still exceptional and story fantastically original and engaging it has most certainly lost something. Now it is just another epic fantasy. An exceptionally well written one but it has lost what made it so very unique.

It really is a bummer because it seems as if that wasn't Bakker's original intention. He has been forced to dumb it down to try to appeal to a larger audience and that really sucks for him.

None the less I am impatiently awaiting for my pre-ordered copy and I will support anything Bakker does in Fantasy. He is a rare talent and I hope one day The Prince of Nothing will get the critical acclaim it deserves both in and out of the genre. PON should be standard reading for any university level creative writing class.

 

[sdelu]

Interesting. I had quite the opposite reaction as the philosophical tone along with Kellhus kicking the bleep out of everyone made the trilogy for me. All joking aside Bakker touched on topics rarely broached in fantasy. The complexity of PON is part of what sets it apart. He has moved away from that in The Aspect-Emperor and while his writing is still exceptional and story fantastically original and engaging it has most certainly lost something. Now it is just another epic fantasy. An exceptionally well written one but it has lost what made it so very unique.

I don't mind what he did with the series or the questions he brought up, nor do I mind whatever complexities he developed. I should have perhaps said "introspective philosophy" (did I just make that up? whatever) rather than just philosophizing -- I think the near-endless introspection just got tiring after a while, specifically in characters that I didn't much care for (Esmenet, Achamian, the occasional Proyas). Personally, I enjoyed Cnaiur and the emperor the most out of all the characters, and I wish he spent more time on them. I have a selfish hope that Cnaiur is turned into a skin-spy or an agent for the consult somehow instead of dying, though I think that his arc was well done if it indeed ends with his death.

Don't get me wrong, I like introspection and complexity and philosophizing (to a degree), but I found myself skipping entire paragraphs and sections in TTT because I just didn't give two hoots what they were complaining about (because it was probably the same thing they complained about the last time). The first two books I didn't have a problem with.

Either way, I'll keep an eye out for a bargain deal on the first one. I think I'd enjoy reading the nonman character (there is one, right?).

 

[3rdI]

Either way, I'll keep an eye out for a bargain deal on the first one. I think I'd enjoy reading the nonman character (there is one, right?).

Indeed there is. I hope Bakker continues to expound upon the history of the Nonmen. Fascinating character type. Really deserve their own series.

 

[kansasbarbarian]

This is my most anticipated book this year. i love Earwa. Bakker is a superb writer and his world building is phenominal.
The magic system alone makes the world and this is coming from a barbarian.
I really enjoyed every bit of The Judging Eye with the Scalpoi being my favorite part. Cleric has the potential to be as great a character as Cnaiur Urs Skiotha.
I hope the White-Luck warrior to be as cool as the blurbs are suggesting.

 

[columbob]

It's in stock right now on Amazon.ca, now if they can only send my preorder I'll be happy. Except I just started The Wise Man's Fear, will I finish that first?

http://www.amazon.ca/White-Luck-Warrior-Scott-Bakker/dp/0143051628/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1301491107&sr=8-1

 

[huskylord]

It's on the shelves now at the Chapters in Toronto

 

[3rdI]

Check out one of Scott Bakker's recent posts on his blog Three Pound Brain
http://rsbakker.wordpress.com/

This post reminds me of an argument I had with another member about comparing Bakker's PON trilogy to Borges and how I felt Bakker could stand up against ANYONE in literature. Well Mr. Bakker, who is without question 115.787% awesome, has an interesting take on his detractors that put a smile on my face. Enjoy.

A Top Ten Something
In ATROCITY TALES, UPDATES on March 30, 2011 at 11:34 am

"So The White-Luck Warrior is on the shelves and shipping in Canada. I checked out Amazon’s fantasy bestseller list and I gotta say it was nice to see the Beast tucked in there with Rothfuss, Martin, and Erikson. It won’t be there for long, I’m sure, but still… And over time, who knows?

It’s nice to be a top ten something, even if just for a few days.

My own contract copies arrived yesterday, and I had a chance to play the ‘Cringe Game,’ where I open random pages here and there and begin reading. Not a single cringe! I’ve realized that my cringing has actually diminished on a curve with each new book I put out. I want to say this is because I’m a better writer than I was, but I have this nagging feeling that it has as much to do with an unconscious unwillingness to acknowledge post-publication problems.

This is also the time of year when I begin my daily Googling ritual, looking for reviews. Nada so far, but I did have occasion to slam head on into my rejection aversion hardwiring. I’m not sure what it is, but I periodically encounter people who really seem to need to take the piss out of my books on the web. I’m not talking about people simply disliking the books – something which I actually find interesting – but individuals who, for whatever reason, decide that I’m nothing more than a sophmoric hack. The prose is ‘clumsy.’ The philosophy is ‘cliche’ or ‘intro.’ These kinds of assertions really make me bristle for some reason – probably because my writing style and my thematics are cornerstones of my professional pride. In this last instance, I actually found myself entertaining a revenge fantasy where I corner the individual at a convention and to have them explain what my philosophical goals are and what makes them so derivative and trite. I wait for them to mention Borges or Carter or Harrison and then I pounce. Imagining these kinds of scenarios always leave me feeling foolish afterward, even though I realize they are simply another irresistible reflex.

I’ve also caught myself marvelling at just how many books I now have out. I still feel like a new author, green as green, and yet I’m anything but. Light, Time, and Gravity brings the count up to eight–eight frickin novels, man. Who would have thunk it.

And this is just a partial snapshot. There’s the apprehensions over what you all will think. The hopes for the building popularity of the series as a whole. The joy of showing my daughter the book, and watching her frown, then turn the book upside down to right the Circumfix on the cover. And so much more.

Having a book released is a complicated time. A mire when things don’t go well, and almost symphonic when they do."

 

[columbob]

Book arrived yesterday, but I still have some 300 pages to polish in Wise Man, so probably won't start before the weekend. The temptation is strong though.

So what are Scott's 8 books? I count 7: the 5 in Earwa, Neuropath and Disciple.

 

[Spears&Buckler]

I think the 8th one is the Light, Time & Gravity one he mentions in
3rdI's post, which I haven't heard anything about so I could be wrong.

 

[Werthead]

It's a mainstream, 'CanLit' book that Scott's already written and is coming out next year, IIRC. Apparently Bakker and Erikson were both really annoyed with the Canadian literary establishment ignoring them (and other Canadian fantasy authors like Guy Kay), despite them actually being quite high up in the list of biggest-selling Canadian authors (not actually saying a lot) resident in Canada (not Erikson any more as he moved to the UK), so Bakker decided to write a mainstream book to get some recognition.

 

[3rdI]

It's a mainstream, 'CanLit' book that Scott's already written and is coming out next year, IIRC. Apparently Bakker and Erikson were both really annoyed with the Canadian literary establishment ignoring them (and other Canadian fantasy authors like Guy Kay), despite them actually being quite high up in the list of biggest-selling Canadian authors (not actually saying a lot) resident in Canada (not Erikson any more as he moved to the UK), so Bakker decided to write a mainstream book to get some recognition.

Such a shame Scott had to dumb down his story to appeal to a larger audience. The Prince of Nothing is a stunning literary achievement. The Judging Eye is simply good.

 

[columbob]

It's a mainstream, 'CanLit' book that Scott's already written and is coming out next year, IIRC. Apparently Bakker and Erikson were both really annoyed with the Canadian literary establishment ignoring them (and other Canadian fantasy authors like Guy Kay), despite them actually being quite high up in the list of biggest-selling Canadian authors (not actually saying a lot) resident in Canada (not Erikson any more as he moved to the UK), so Bakker decided to write a mainstream book to get some recognition.

I see it listed for this fall on Amazon.ca.

So Erikson moved back to the UK?

Such a shame Scott had to dumb down his story to appeal to a larger audience. The Prince of Nothing is a stunning literary achievement. The Judging Eye is simply good.

And here you're comparing a whole trilogy to a single sequel book. Wait until the AE trilogy is done.

 

[3rdI]

I see it listed for this fall on Amazon.ca.

So Erikson moved back to the UK?



And here you're comparing a whole trilogy to a single sequel book. Wait until the AE trilogy is done.

Bakker himself has said he had to dumb down the story so it would appeal to a larger audience so AE sells better. He used a more delicate wording but that is the crux of it.

 

[3rdI]

Less than a week now from release in the states. I am looking forward to this book. Official release date is Thursday, April 14th.

 

[Erfael]

Less than a week now from release in the states. I am looking forward to this book. Official release date is Thursday, April 14th.

My preorder from B&N.com actually shipped Thursday. It shipped by UPS ground from the other side of the country, so who knows when it will get here, but it did ship.

 

[Luya Sevrein]

I've never read Bekker but intend too soon. I've heard amazing things on the prose side of things, but the content never really appealed.

Sounds kinda' boring.

Kellhus rules all. End of. Every other POV is a constant bitch at how Kellhus rules all? xD

How? Is he all-knowing? 'Cause that's gotta drive someone who has to live in the physical world insane. That'd be fun. Otherwise, there's always gonna be someone smarter.

What will you do when someone finally deals with Kellhus, because they will, because authors need progression when they work within one world like Bekker does. Will you just decide '_____ is now the man!'

'Cause that kinda seems like you like the position of power created rather than Kellhus as a character.

 

[Luya Sevrein]

Bakker himself has said he had to dumb down the story so it would appeal to a larger audience so AE sells better. He used a more delicate wording but that is the crux of it.

When I have a few published books and begin to wonder if my current work is holding up the standards in quality, that's SO my excuse. I am bagsying that right now. xD

'You're all thick.' xD

 

[3rdI]

I've never read Bekker but intend too soon. I've heard amazing things on the prose side of things, but the content never really appealed.

Sounds kinda' boring.

Kellhus rules all. End of. Every other POV is a constant bitch at how Kellhus rules all? xD

How? Is he all-knowing? 'Cause that's gotta drive someone who has to live in the physical world insane. That'd be fun. Otherwise, there's always gonna be someone smarter.

What will you do when someone finally deals with Kellhus, because they will, because authors need progression when they work within one world like Bekker does. Will you just decide '_____ is now the man!'

'Cause that kinda seems like you like the position of power created rather than Kellhus as a character.

Kellhus is the man. He is the most powerful being that has Earwa has ever seen. He has mastered the Gnosis in ways that the Nonmen never dreamt of. His is Dunyain. Conditioned. Follower of the Logos. Master of The Thousandfold Thought. Aspect-Emperor. Self created god. There is no other character in literature that compares.....except for Kvothe of course

Watching him bend all situation, circumstance, and individual to his will is remarkable. Add to that Bakker's remarkable understanding of philosophy and you get a story unlike anything in fantasy. The Prince of Nothing is a fantastic story.

In The Judging Eye, which is the first book of The Aspect-Emperor Trilogy (book 4 of 8 planned in the Second Apocalypse), the Kellhus POV is removed which sucks. The reviews of The White Luck Warrior, which as Werthead mentioned really is the midway mark of the entire Second Apocalypse story, have been very good so far. I suspect you and many others will end up enjoying this second trilogy more than the first. For me with the Kellhus POV removed the story is diminished.

 

[Luya Sevrein]

Kellhus is the man. He is the most powerful being that has Earwa has ever seen. He has mastered the Gnosis in ways that the Nonmen never dreamt of. His is Dunyain. Conditioned. Follower of the Logos. Master of The Thousandfold Thought. Aspect-Emperor. Self created god. There is no other character in literature that compares.....except for Kvothe of course

While I don't know what most of that means, he hasn't bent everyone. If some characters can still complain and feel upset then it suggests he's simply overpowered them/given them no choice. Not quite a Master, just a thug? xD

Philosophical thugs... Ehehe. We always beat the psychology students. 8D

 

[Erfael]

While I don't know what most of that means, he hasn't bent everyone. If some characters can still complain and feel upset then it suggests he's simply overpowered them/given them no choice. Not quite a Master, just a thug? xD

Kellhus is essentially the same type of character as Paul Atreides from Dune, one that through breeding has been born as a sort of super-perceptive, super-competent world-interpreting machine. But whereas Paul Atreides uses his skills to benefit humankind, Kellhus uses his to achieve his own ends (there's an open question as to whether these ends are for the good or bad of the world, though). He uses his skills to read and steer other characters in what pretty much amounts to mental or motivational rape. The interesting aspect of the books for many readers is seeing how these other characters struggle against the influence that Kellhus tries to exert on them. Some succeed in that, others fail. But Kellhus isn't the hero of the books and many readers, if they don't outright count him as a villain, find him pretty distasteful in the way he will totally use and destroy people to fit his own needs.

In short, yes, the worst kind of thug...one who should both know better and who has the means to deal with things in a completely different way and yet doesn't.