What sff book would you make required reading?

[Matt H.]

Thank you, Randy. My words were a little crazy. Perhaps you got that they were partly "figurative" for lack of a better word. Your message has actually comforted me.

I have little contact with the younger crowd, and they're pretty mysterious to me. That makes my generalizations all the more absurd. I know there are good kids out there with many of the old virtues too. Arrogance I hate to see though, especially when it's so unfounded.

(added)
I nixed that post because it was a little nasty. Feeling cornered and mean, I guess from events, and scared as hell too.

 

[Randy M.]

I nixed that post because it was a little nasty. Feeling cornered and mean, I guess from events, and scared as hell too.

Yeah. Hard not to be recently.

Randy M.

 

[owlcroft]

Reverting to the thread title--"What sff book would you make required reading?"--I think that (while choosing one is daunting) I would suggest the Collected Fictions of Jorge Luis Borges (one-volume omnibus translated by Andrew Hurley). They stories are brilliant writing, thoroughly varied in style, and illustrative both of the human condition and of fine story-crafting.

 

[Stephen Palmer]

I'm going to go with Brian Aldiss' (almost) peerless Helliconia trilogy - because of its sheer verve and love of life. A unique book, and still a wonder.

 

[Deleted member 50140]

Issac Asimov
Caves of steel
Ted white
Jewls of elswen

 

[Hereford Eye]

Required reading? I am not particularly impressed by our current curriculums at any level requiring me to address what it is that we want students to learn from reading any particular sff story. A specific truth? A specific ideology? A specific writing style? I want the students to enjoy the story first and foremost. If they don’t enjoy it then it won’t be possible to teach those students to think about what is written, how it applies to themselves and their lives, how and why it applies to the world around them. I was never asked those questions nor were our children and grandchildren. The closest I’ve seen to these facets is Jerry Pournelle’s California Sixth Grade Reader. And that’s a century ago.

So, for me, disregarding the time frame limit, here is a sample of books with something to think about:

The Island of Dr. Moreau, H.G. Wells - what is human, colonialism.
Alice in Wonderland/Though the Looking Glass, Lewis Carroll – language
The Jungle Book, Rudyard Kipling – human dealing with Others
The City of Dreaming Books, Walter Moers - publishing books
The Deed of Paksennarion, Elizabeth Moon – duty, honor, country
The Gate to Women’s Country, Sheri S. Tepper - are men more violent than women?
The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant, Stephen R. Donaldson – dealing with terminal illness, language
The Lord of the Rings, J.R.R. Tolkien – duty, honor, country
Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy, Douglas Adams – cultural satire
The Handmaid’s Tale, Margaret Atwood – gender equality
The Andromeda Strain, Michael Crichton - biology
The Child Buyer, John Hersey – educating children
The Left Hand of Darkness, Ursula K. Leguin – gender equality
Black Milk, Robert Reed – gene modification
The Sparrow, Mary Doria Russell – tunnel vision
Rescue Branch, Gena Marie Wylie – space is dangerous

 

[Stephen Palmer]

Some great choices there, especially the older books, eg. Wells and Kipling

 

[Dahlderan]

Atlas Shrugged - Ayn Rand. But only 1 and 2 parts. This is a labor manifesto that is necessary for modern capitalist society.
with&Resrect Dahlderan, work time

 

[psikeyhackr]

The variations in science fiction are huge & interesting in themselves. These two books are about economic dichotomies.

The Dispossessed by Ursula K Le Guin is a story of economic dichotomies.
Voyage from Yesteryear by James Hogan is similar in theme but vastly different in detail.
Hogan wrote hard SF.

Voyage from Yesteryear - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Since The Dispossessed was from 1974 there is no influence from the microelectronic revolution. But VfY is from 1982 and Hogan knew computers so the future society cut off from history is more technologically realistic. However in the real world that we must live in we have technology but are stuck with the dead hand of history.

I have listened to arguments about communism, capitalism and socialism since I was a kid and the bullshit continues. There are about 100 times as many ratings for The Dispossessed than Hogan's book but I think his story is more meaningful. We run the planet in the same stupid ways generation after generation by brainwashing children with crap. Which ideology advocates mandatory accounting in the schools?

The Economics of Science Fiction

An in-depth examination of fictional economic theory.

medium.com

The Study of Economics Could Learn a Lot From Science Fiction

Mainstream economics is suffering an identity crisis, which began with The Great Recession and has reemerged during the current pandemic. In response, a growing collection of voices has advocated l…

lithub.com

The Space Merchants by Frederick Pohl

 

[psikeyhackr]

Since humanity is now cursed with computers and probably will be until the total cultural collapse I suggest:

The Two Faces of Tomorrow by James P Hogan

Daemon & Freedom by Daniel Suarez

 

[Bestertester]

Atlas Shrugged - Ayn Rand. But only 1 and 2 parts.
with&Resrect Dahlderan, work time

But it's the third part that's SFF.

I don't like this whole idea of required reading. Kids aren't all the same. Standardizing their syllabus disrespects students' individuality.

Schooling is mostly indoctrination. I hate indoctrination. A lot of what my teachers downloaded into me turned out to be garbage. All the debates over education seem to be about what flavor of garbage to shove down the kids' throats.

 

[psikeyhackr]

I don't like this whole idea of required reading.

Suggested, with explanations for the suggestions would be better.

I read most of the required stuff but I know enough to find superior works today. Plus the world is a different place. The trouble with being a kid is not having a clue and most adults talking BS.

 

[Stanley Steamboy]

I don't like this whole idea of required reading. Kids aren't all the same. Standardizing their syllabus disrespects students' individuality.

This is kind of ridiculous. You read and discuss a book as a class so everyone receives the same educational points. The exact book isn't as important as the fact that everyone has the same opportunity to learn the key points the text can illustrate about theme, symbolism, etc. Rarely in life are you afforded a choice in what you have to read and then comprehend. This is a process to learn comprehension, not feel good about what you read.

 

[Bestertester]

The exact book isn't as important as the fact that everyone has the same opportunity to learn the key points the text can illustrate about theme, symbolism, etc.

That's why we have Cliff's Notes. For the kids too dumb or lazy to suss out the theme and symbolism for themselves. Kids who won't grow up to appreciate anything about fiction anyway, so why bother?

I've known kids who claimed to have been taught Fahrenheit 451 in high school but had no idea what the themes were. Not even the Cliff's Notes version. If a kid can read a book but not understand it, no public school teacher is going to fix that. If the kid can read and understand the book, the public school teacher isn't needed. Nor the classroom. Stay home and avoid the COVID cooties.

Required reading ruins reading for those who would otherwise appreciate it, and wastes the time of those who aren't going to appreciate it regardless.

 

[Stanley Steamboy]

If a kid can read a book but not understand it, no public school teacher is going to fix that. If the kid can read and understand the book, the public school teacher isn't needed. Nor the classroom.

You make it sound like people are born educated or uneducated. Absurd. Plenty of crummy students become good ones with the right education.

Regardless, the point is that reading something and using critical thinking upon it is a skill worth teaching and has little to do with enjoying literature. If you can read and think critically about 451, you can do the same with a contract, a technical manual or scientific study. You don't get to go through life only reading what you want to read. You also don't want anyone deciding whether a kid is permanently unable to understand literature before you attempt to educate them.

 

[Bestertester]

You make it sound like people are born educated or uneducated. Absurd. Plenty of crummy students become good ones with the right education.

It's called aptitude and inclination. These two things correlate strongly.

Stanley, proper critical thinking is not something that is taught in the schools. Never mind whether it should be. It isn't, and it's not going to be any time soon. This is why most people you meet don't know how science actually works. Nobody taught them, and they didn't care to find out.

Education is not magic pixie dust. You can't educate someone into something that's not part of his nature. It just flat out doesn't work. Trying to do so is cruel and intolerant of differences. It messes kids up. It's our version of the filial piety in the Far East that drives so many Asian kids to suicide.

Not every kid is going to be what you want him to be. You can't just program them like computers. It doesn't work that way. The whole idea is a rejection of reality.

Universal literacy gave us People magazine and National Enquirer. Nothing will give us a society of Tolstoy aficionados.

 

[Stanley Steamboy]

It's called aptitude and inclination. These two things correlate strongly.

Stanley, proper critical thinking is not something that is taught in the schools. Never mind whether it should be. It isn't, and it's not going to be any time soon. This is why most people you meet don't know how science actually works. Nobody taught them, and they didn't care to find out.

Education is not magic pixie dust. You can't educate someone into something that's not part of his nature. It just flat out doesn't work. Trying to do so is cruel and intolerant of differences. It messes kids up. It's our version of the filial piety in the Far East that drives so many Asian kids to suicide.

Not every kid is going to be what you want him to be. You can't just program them like computers. It doesn't work that way. The whole idea is a rejection of reality.

Universal literacy gave us People magazine and National Enquirer. Nothing will give us a society of Tolstoy aficionados.

Education isn't about producing Tolstoy enthusiasts. It is about offering every kid, regardless of our perception of them, an opportunity to learn about something - if they wish to learn it. And many of the kids you write off will surprise you.

Technically, I was an A math student and a C reading/language arts student until 7th grade. Then that teacher put me on track to be an honors English student with the highest SAT and SAT verbal score in my high school. Your philosophy would have substituted wood shop for English.

 

[psikeyhackr]

I've known kids who claimed to have been taught Fahrenheit 451 in high school but had no idea what the themes were. Not even the Cliff's Notes version. If a kid can read a book but not understand it, no public school teacher is going to fix that. If the kid can read and understand the book, the public school teacher isn't needed. Nor the classroom. Stay home and avoid the COVID cooties.

English literature teachers make a big deal about Ray Bradbury when Heinlein, Clarke and Asimov are far more intellectually interesting.

C P Snow put the literary pseudo-intellectuals in their place with The Two Cultures but the humanities types have too much influence in the schools. Technology is necessary to feed 7 billion people not literary themes.

Now we can wreck the planet with the stupid use of technology.

 

[Randy M.]

English literature teachers make a big deal about Ray Bradbury when Heinlein, Clarke and Asimov are far more intellectually interesting.

Debatable. I know this because it's been debated here before.

I'm on the side of "Phooey!" It depends on what you value in fiction. When it comes to understanding the people around you, how they think and what they desire versus what they need, you'll get more nutrition from Bradbury. That remains valuable to many readers throughout their lives and is part of the explanation for writers you don't like being popular in spite of your dislike. Which works both ways and just what the heck was the adoration of Tom Clancy about?

If you want to see the interplay of science and imagination, yup, go Clarke and Asimov; even as the science dates, the imagination dealing with the variables with the best current knowledge remains relevant.

As for the "required reading" debate, of course education is indoctrination. But you can't have a shared society/culture without its components sharing some of the same experiences. You had to read Catcher in the Rye and hated it? Great! You now have hundreds of thousands if not millions of other people who agree with you and your discussions about it will be capable of heading in hundreds of directions, all because you shared one lousy experience.

I'm on the side of offering up required reading, more I'm on the side of trying to get children to think about what they're reading because that kind of thinking then applies to what they're seeing and hearing on television, on-line, on streaming services, etc. I'm also on the side of teaching math and science, and also giving the kids a chance to learn about and even practice music and art. There have always been kids who feel incarcerated in school, but if you offer a wide enough variety of materials and subjects (and if they aren't so hungry that they can't pay attention; and if their home lives aren't so wretched they can't pay attention; and ...) there's a better chance of the individual finding that thing that excites them, or at least something to latch onto that they enjoy and maybe even can grow from.

What, really, are the viable alternatives?

 

[psikeyhackr]

You had to read Catcher in the Rye and hated it? Great!

Catcher in the Rye was never worthy of hate. I may have read the 1st 20 pages and regarded it as a waste of time. J D Salinger actually lost the fencing equipment for his club. LOL All you have to do is listen to class discussion and you can get a B in English literature. If anything a society engaging in book burning means producing people who do not think for themselves. Heinlein covered that more explicitly in Orphans of the Sky.

I never said I disliked Bradbury. The Big 3 were just better. I have read Martian Chronicles multiple times and it was never required.

Literature won't help humanity deal with climate change and how our climate scientists can say nothing about unnecessary manufacturing due to planned obsolescence contributing to CO2 production for decades is beyond me.