Wilson's 2015 Motivational Novella Challenge

As for "old guard", @Bodhi, that actually does make me angry. When have I ever been anything other than welcoming and supportive of new members to our community, or even members who have been around for multiple years? When have I not done my best to provide helpful links in my posts? When have I criticized the posting method or format of someone who joined the forum after I did?

I admit, in years past I have not always been the best at holding my tongue and counting to ten before replying to the content of posts. But I have been practicing and I continue to practice.

This is not about "old" and "new guard". This was about people who wanted an alternative to the majority's decision, and made a mistake as to timing.
 
but this will not be a flame war.
And it truly should not be.

Bodhi, you used the phrase "pre-emptive strike"!? Like we're bandying about for control of an aquifer in a post-apocalyptic wasteland (or, even worse--the Hugo Ballot!).

Folks, there's really no reason to make more of this than what it is. Luka had the great idea to start a long form writing challenge. People were interested, but there was clearly a fundamental disagreement in that thread. I wasn't part of the (so called) "clique" that started this thread, but I posted several times in the other one, trying to make the point that adding a mandatory theme would potentially turn people away.

So I was happy to see this thread appear. It's simply an alternative choice for people who want to write a novella in the company of others. That's what this is about right, pushing one another to complete a piece of writing? Asking for the thread to be modded!? Honestly, that would be disappointing, chiefly because this thread doesn't even come close to breaking any sort of rules.

Can we stop arguing like Sad Puppies and just focus on the writing?
 
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So I've gone back and tried to tone down my language. I got a bit emotional because it felt to me like Luka deserved better. The thread may not break the rules, but it causes a rift in the community. It's simply the case that the leader of organizing any of these things gets some clout and credit in the community.

I regret using the term "old guard" and I apologize for that. But it is the case that Luka is quite new and may not know everything about everything about how things work here. It felt a bit like that, and in anger, I thought I would try to be witty(?).

It still feels like a preemptive strike though, just the timing of it.
 
You know, I really have no 'skin' in the game here cause I'm not likely to enter any novella competition. I did put in my two cents in the original thread and assumed that there would be a decision as to form/format/etc. and the competition would be started.

Instead I find this 'pre-emptive' strike -- which is EXACTLY what it is having started before the discussion was completed.

I did not see anything like a fundamental disagreement, though clearly Wilson and Redmage took it that way and apparently plotted off line to put this in place before any conclusion was reached in the original thread. This is bullshit, that's what it is. I have to say what I'm seeing.

It's one thing if the original discussion ended in disagreement, but to do it this way is just wrong. This whole idea to put this competition in place was Luka's and he was being very open, considerate and willing to discuss options and hopefully come to a conclusion -- which was not allowed to happen.

I agree with Bodhi, Luka deserves an apology and to be able to move forward with the discussion and to implement his Novella Competition based on the outcome of that discussion. If there is still a disagreement after that then start Two Novella Competitions, or twelve for all I care, but to do it this was was out of line.

Carry on.
 
Oh and if I don't care for the way the short story competition or Flash or Micro competitions are working, I'll be free to start my own as well. Right?
 
We're not doing anything to prevent Luka from starting his competition, @kennychaffin. In fact, I support him and will do whatever I can to help him get it going and help others who are confused about the two, very similar threads to understand the difference between them.
 
We're not doing anything to prevent Luka from starting his competition, @kennychaffin. In fact, I support him and will do whatever I can to help him get it going and help others who are confused about the two, very similar threads to understand the difference between them.

That's just great! Carry on. Do whatever you like. I've learned a lot from this thread. Thanks.
 
So I've gone back and tried to tone down my language. I got a bit emotional because it felt to me like Luka deserved better. The thread may not break the rules, but it causes a rift in the community. It's simply the case that the leader of organizing any of these things gets some clout and credit in the community.

I regret using the term "old guard" and I apologize for that. But it is the case that Luka is quite new and may not know everything about everything about how things work here. It felt a bit like that, and in anger, I thought I would try to be witty(?).

It still feels like a preemptive strike though, just the timing of it.
Thank you, Bodhi. I've been in situations too where I feel the members who have been there longer are all arguing against me and it is the old vs new guard situation you described. I apologize too for my part in making you feel that way.
 
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@Luka Datas, I also apologize to you for having engaged in this, which does appear to very much undermine you and your contest. You were not in the wrong at all and have great at everything you do here on the forum. Please stick around. Things would be quite different here without you.
 
Yikes.

Hmmmm...is this all sorted?

Just to be clear, Wilson did ask me if it was okay to post this thread. I said yes, not realizing that this thread conflicted or would be construed as conflicting with @Luka Datas contest. My apologies extended as well.

The contests/challenge threads are not in competition with themselves. But! There are only so many of us who frequent the writing forum and we only have so much time to meet the writing challenges we set for ourselves. Putting up two threads calling for participation for writing pieces that are so similar in length could lead to some conflict. I believe we felt the micro-fiction and the flash fiction had the potential to step on each others toes.

However, they did not. It is quite possible that these will not either. There's no reason why an entry for @Luka Datas could very easily be entered into this challenge as well - am I right? (Or horribly wrong?)
 
Yikes.

Hmmmm...is this all sorted?

Just to be clear, Wilson did ask me if it was okay to post this thread. I said yes, not realizing that this thread conflicted or would be construed as conflicting with @Luka Datas contest. My apologies extended as well.

The contests/challenge threads are not in competition with themselves. But! There are only so many of us who frequent the writing forum and we only have so much time to meet the writing challenges we set for ourselves. Putting up two threads calling for participation for writing pieces that are so similar in length could lead to some conflict. I believe we felt the micro-fiction and the flash fiction had the potential to step on each others toes.

However, they did not. It is quite possible that these will not either. There's no reason why an entry for @Luka Datas could very easily be entered into this challenge as well - am I right? (Or horribly wrong?)
I don't see them either as being exclusive of the other. So yes, a person could do both.
 
My goodness, it seems I'm a little late to the game. I thought I'd suggested a vary workable way for both camps to come together under one thread. Post number 97 That neither of the initiators of this particular thread bother to even reply to my suggestion is...disappointing. I can't help but feel that all of this bitterness could have been avoided.

To have two such similar threads running concurrently runs the possibility of having new/incoming members think there is a general level of disharmony here that is unrepresentative of how this forum typically functions. I strongly believe we need to find a way to sort this out.
 
I strongly believe we need to find a way to sort this out.
I agree, they are a little confusing - at first.

But let's give them both a try and see where things pan out. I think as long as Luka clearly titles his contest, and we remind newcomers of the difference, we should be good.

I hope.

I sincerely believe Wilson did not intend anything contrary to Luka's contest. I'm guessing he simply found his needs differed.
 
I agree, they are a little confusing - at first.

But let's give them both a try and see where things pan out. I think as long as Luka clearly titles his contest, and we remind newcomers of the difference, we should be good.

I hope.

I sincerely believe Wilson did not intend anything contrary to Luka's contest. I'm guessing he simply found his needs differed.

Bad idea. This preemptive act by Wilson and Redmage is out of line.
 
I agree, they are a little confusing - at first.

But let's give them both a try and see where things pan out. I think as long as Luka clearly titles his contest, and we remind newcomers of the difference, we should be good.

I hope.

I sincerely believe Wilson did not intend anything contrary to Luka's contest. I'm guessing he simply found his needs differed.

I see what you're trying to do here Nila and I do appreciate what a tough spot you're being put in but, I truly don't believe it is a good idea to run both. The forum should be user friendly. Having two such similar ideas separate from each other gives the impression that the group is divided into two camps. I fear that may turn off participation in either or both threads and, even worse, it may turn people off of the entire writing forum.
 
So while I was away visiting with my niece, I discovered that a whole bunch of people in the Writing Forum -- the Writing Forum no less -- decided to toss the forum guidelines out the window and engage in a cross-thread flame war. And Nila brought the situation to the attention of staff. So I am posting this in both of these threads so that this message will be perfectly clear to all parties.

1) If you have a problem with another member's behavior, including staff members, you DO NOT start flame wars and violate the rules you agreed to follow as members. I don't care what the complaint is. You contact staff by Private Message or the feedback forum with your complaint, and we will decide if it needs fixing and how it will be fixed if so. Failure to understand this procedure and follow the forum rules can result in Strikes for members or further action, including banning from the forums.

2) If you are not happy with the forum, you are free to leave it and find another place you like better on the Net. You do not threaten staff in demands that they do what you want. You do not do this especially when what you are demanding is against the rules of the forum. You do not get to decide what threads stay or go. Staff are volunteers and are not here for you to abuse. Just because Nila happens to be a very kind and generous person does not mean you get to treat her like she's your maid, is that clear? Again, failure to cooperate with staff can result in Strikes and further action including banning.

3) A novelette and a novella are two different forms of story, the difference being the length of the piece. They are not interchangeable. A novelette is 7,500 words to 17,500 words and a novella is 17,500 words to 40,000 words. A novella essentially acts as a short novel. A novelette is essentially a long short story. If you are going to try these forms as an exercise or project, you should at least understand what they entail.

4) We can allow members to run as many writing challenges or exercises as they like, as long as everybody participating follows the rules of the forum. We can have ten novella experiments going at once, all with different parameters. Or we can have no challenges whatsoever, which is what will happen if members refuse to cooperate, flame each other, are abusive to staff, and disrupt the Writing Forum so that members cannot have conversations with each other. The idea of allowing the exercises, challenges and low stakes, friendly contests in the Writing Forum, is for writers to HELP each other, support each other, get inspiration, tackle and learn new skills. Members who cannot accept these parameters and refuse to follow the rules of the forum, again, can face Strikes and further action, including banning.

5) In this particular case, Wilson was uninterested in the contest for longer forms that Luka proposed in his thread. So he asked staff for permission to start a new thread with a different challenge that better fit what he and some other members wanted to try. And that permission was granted by staff, because there is no earthly reason why not.

Neither thread will be closed or deleted. Both writing challenges can proceed. Both threads will be closely monitored by staff. (Something I never usually have had to bother with for contests because it has never occurred to me that there would be flame wars in such events.) If members participating in those threads further break the rules of the forum that you all agreed to follow, individual members may receive Strikes or further action, and the thread may be closed down if members refuse to cooperate and flame each other.

So you want to have these contests in the Writing Forum, for fun, fellowship and personal writing development? Then follow the rules and procedures of the forums. If you are unclear on what those are, or again have a complaint about another member's behavior, contact staff. But what happened here because both Nila and I were away and other staff were busy is NOT going to happen again. Accept that all parties who irritated you had no malicious intent, move on and have fun writing your brains out.
 
I've never been so glad to not log on for a day or two! So, with the intent to--
...move on and have fun writing your brains out.
--I'm going to confess that I've become less active on the monthly motivation threads as this year has progressed. I post ever less specific objectives, and those few I do I tend to fail at least as often as I achieve. Part of that is because, when my novel got pulled back in February/March, my plans for the first six months of 2015 got knocked into a cocked hat. I've published five little ebooks, one of them a novella, but the intention was always that these things would be bolstering my line up behind that novel... except it isn't there any more.

I'll get three more little books out before September, but only because they are already prepared -- I'm not expecting anything especially useful from them, any more than what little the previous five have managed. However, my original plan for the summer was to write two more mini-books of weird westerns, and that's changed. I need to get my novel back out, or an eighteen month process (which was rewarding and mind-cuffing in about equal measure) will have become a waste of time, and all these little things I've done this year likewise.

Unfortunately, at the very least the novel will demand a major re-write before it is sale-legal, and that ignores the necessity of establishing a whole new story-world (instead of simply joining an existing one, as was the original situation).

Therefore, I've decided to start from first principles: I'm going to need a new story world, so I'm going to write a new story. Over the last couple of weeks I've been plotting out a novel/la (I'm not yet sure how long it will be) to establish the world my revamped novel will eventually occupy, and (although I will probably fail!) my "summer objective" will be to write the first draft of it.

Consider this, then, me accepting the 2015 Novella Challenge...

...unless it turns into a novel without my noticing.
 

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