Writers and their "friends"

Yep. It's very possible and proper to give honest feedback without being mean. :)
Some workshops are toxic others end up producing 'workshop voice' as KKR says.
I never want to be seen as mean, but I am very blunt (not so much in contests) the more I read for someone the less I try to sugar coat because I fear it distracts from the clarity of the reader reaction. I do usually include a disclaimer the first time I critique for someone new to the workshop.
 
Okay, another confession:

My husband does not read anything I write.

When I first starting writing in earnest, I would beg him to read it. It was like pulling teeth. He doesn't like genre fiction and, more importantly, he doesn't like my style of writing (apparently). But I would beg and beg and beg and, eventually, I would wear him down and he would relent and struggle through it.

And then we would fight about his reaction to my story (which was usually - "I don't get it"). We would have full on screaming matches that only ended after one of us (okay, me) said "You just don't love me!" Or something stupid and over-dramatic like that.

I have learned to not ask him to read anything I write. :(
 
My wife is very supportive about my writing but has no interest in it at all. I swear to god that the last time I started to talk to her about it, I saw her eyes literally glass over.

As far as all the critiquing discussion, I have had stories critiqued by both @Facing and @Andrew Leon Hudson and find both of them to be thurough and fair. I have joked that Andrew's critique of one of my stories was nerve-racking for me, but it was also completely accurate and has positively affected my writing ever since. (Even if it took me a few months to be able to appreciate it, buts that's on me and my thin skin, not him.)
 
I honestly can't remember too many times in my life when any of my interests were shared by friends or family.

There is much to be said by not getting your spouse to critique anything you deeply care about. Putting things you care about in opposition is foolhardy.
 
My wife takes a great interest in my writing and is the only person I am scared of when it comes to reading my work, as she is brutally honest and provides very valuable and often painful feedback. Family and friends became more interested for a while after I was published, but really they show as much polite interest as I show in the things they are passionate about.

I have an internal urge to write, so I don't expect the people around me, who have enough going on in their own lives, to treat what I do as something special. It's not. It's just writing.
 
I'm surprised so many of you share your writing with family. I've never shared anything I've written with family members (some of them don't even know I write.)

This might be due to my lack of confidence in my writing; I've only ever written one story that I felt was actually worth sharing, but the subject matter is so dark that I'm afraid that it would just make them worry.

I have a handful of friends that I have occasionally shared stories with in the past; one who is also a writer and who took creative writing courses in university, another who went to school for cinematography and does some script writing and short films. A third friend of mine is an avid reader, who's opinions on written work I can respect. And a fourth who has never read more than five books his whole life and can't stand reading; I know if I can keep his attention, I'm doing something right.
 
My partner, when he is in a good mood, is very supportive of my writing and an excellent reader/critic. When he is not in a good mood, which is most of the time, he is bitter and jealous of my active writing/social life. He has used my writing successes as a reason why he should be allowed to run around and cheat on me, since I "already have everything."

I can't decide if next time I would prefer to date a writer with confidence in his own work, or someone who does not and will not write at all.
 
My partner, when he is in a good mood, is very supportive of my writing and an excellent reader/critic. When he is not in a good mood, which is most of the time, he is bitter and jealous of my active writing/social life. He has used my writing successes as a reason why he should be allowed to run around and cheat on me, since I "already have everything."

I can't decide if next time I would prefer to date a writer with confidence in his own work, or someone who does not and will not write at all.
Hugs.
 
Okay, now I'm going to expand on my elsewhere post to vent "a little" more.

I've clashed with a few writer friends, all from the groups I've mentioned above, some more seriously than others. In two cases it was down to me delivering a semi-critical review on an ebook blog I used to run (for which reason it's been permanently abandoned - no fun anymore). In the details both reviews were actually quite positive, but the rules I'd set up for the blog meant one of them got only a two-star review on a technicality (price, basically, it was very expensive by my standards). Many months later I discovered he had (apparently) been stewing over this affront ever since, and (apparently) had asked me to delete it, though I had no recollection of that. I deleted the review when this became clear because, you know, "a friend", but there was a bad atmosphere between us that's only recently been resolved.

Then there's the person who I actually fell out with over a review, which went down at about the same time. In this case, we'd occasionally had hearty differences of opinion before, raised voices but nothing acrimonious. She had, however, recently been small-press published and had gained a major hankering for Amz/GRs reviews. Along with many of our mutual writer friends I'd bought a physical copy of her book (not cheap at all, and semi-chic-lit too, which is fine but not my thing); most of the rest had dropped a 5-star "it's great" onto Amazon, but it got to the point where every time we met she'd ask me where my review was. I eventually said I'd put it on this now defunct blog, but in the end it was only up for about three days because we self-destructed in the process.

In the aftermath of being published, her position on reviews became somewhat... nuanced. She'd assert, straight-faced, her certain belief that any reader posting a negative review was trolling the author. I laughed the first time she said this, which led to a friendly debate that changed nobody's opinion. No misunderstanding of terms here, I pressed her on this: "a deliberate act of meanness or sabotage", as opposed to my definition, "the thoughts of a person who didn't like a book". She held her cards, then doubled-down: not just that a bad review was invariably trolling, but that 3-stars constituted a bad review as well. This didn't really jibe with my thinking either...

In the end I wrote a review (3-stars... gasp), but emailed her before I posted to explain my reasons: the text was generally positive but also triggered certain blog-criteria (which in this case was convenient, since there's no way I could have rated it higher without committing seppuku minutes later). Knowing her feelings on the subject, I offered to simply not post if it would make her unhappy, but she said "No, go ahead" and even liked the review the next day -- but simultaneously the whole bad-review = trolling disagreement bubbled over between us. This time let's just say that it got personal (I blame the internet, well, partially) and we've not spoken in more than a year.

The short takeaway from this is, I've gained a fairly serious reluctance to review writers I know. I've never been happy to just say "wow, this is wonderful" when I don't feel that way, and while some have been okay with the results of that it's led to other awkwardness too.

For example: several years back when my novel was still a real thing instead of a fading figment of my imagination, an entirely different writer friend (who still is one!) also had a novel come out. She got on Goodreads for the first time, asked me for a review exchange. I had no reservation, we're good pals, and in keeping with my general and oft-articulated belief that 5-star and 1-star first-timer reviews are less valuable that 2s, 3s and 4s (because the extremes are where the crazies lurk!), I gave her an impartial, encouraging four, comfortably anticipating the same.

She gave me a five. Which is... fine, of course, but see above. So, the next time we got together I said, "Hey, would you mind knocking a star off? I'm no Nabokov, doesn't feel realistic, etc." Plus I was her first review there, so she looked like a clumsy sock-puppet... Her response was "Okay: if you'll add a star to mine." I was suddenly in this weird position of feeling like I had to toss my standards to do someone a favour, to skew all my reviews to favour a non-genre YA title that was hardly my usual cup of tea, being fully honest. I'm not the audience, you know?

Now fair enough, my feelings about online reviews aren't shared by every other wannabe writer out there; she wanted 5s because she thought those would help her the most; but it still seemed a very odd bargain to be striking, do me up and I'll agree to do you down. Anyway, because we're friends, I did it: but I also modified the review text, to made it clear that I know the author, that they are a really great person, that I hope they have lots of success, etc. Because it was important to me that, should anyone wonder why I'm ranking My Big YA Adventure alongside Lolita, the explanation would be right there at the top of the page. So she gained that 5-star rating but lost the impartiality element, which for me is a more important consideration when I check out what readers think.

Damn, I was going to do some actual writing today, and I've not even finished pouring out all the angst!

Can I add this to my monthly total on MyWriteClub, please?
 
Can I add this to my monthly total on MyWriteClub, please?
Absolutely.

My policy with reviews: I'll review if I like it (three stars or more). If I don't, I won't. You get what you get. End of discussion.

I know that means when I (if ever) get a book out, it will most likely be skewered, but (shrugs) what can I do? I don't want to be disingenuous.

Andrew - there are writers out there, me included, that do appreciate your honesty and want it. Plus, it's your opinion. You don't *have* to review anything. No one is paying you for that review. You are doing it out of the kindness of your heart, or because you genuinely like something, or really hate it.

I can't quite understand folks who *expect* reciprocal 5-star reviews. I guess, it's that whole this-is-what-friends-are-for thing, but...I guess...well...if my career depended on it...ug. I don't know. It is a tough one. :(

Think of it as a black comedy - I do!
Wow. I would have probably killed my husband. Or, at least, tried. You are a much stronger person than I am.
 
The short takeaway from this is, I've gained a fairly serious reluctance to review writers I know.
Andrew, you seem to be clashing with people because you are confusing helpful editorial criticism with literary criticism/product reviews of published works.

If you help someone write a better book by telling them how bad it is in the editing stage, that's supportive. But if you publicly trash a published work when it is way too late to change anything about it, I don't see how that is "constructive criticism". You're just damaging the sales of that work and limiting the author's future ability to sell better written works in the future.
 
I disagree. A criticism is a criticism is a criticism.
Maybe, but how many chefs and food critics are friends? They aren't, and they shouldn't be.

You can offer all the fair criticism in the world, but it is hardly doing a friend a favor when it takes food out of their mouth. If you want to publicly critique published works and finished products, don't expect to remain friends with those you are critical of.

I'm sure when authors ask each other to write a dust jacket blurb, sometimes the reviewing author says "I can't help you with this one, but try me next time". No one is writing false glowing reviews, but if you are doing the "supportive fellow author" thing, you might withhold public condemnation. It isn't like there are going to be a lack of detractors to pick up the slack if you remain mute.
 
I'm sure when authors ask each other to write a dust jacket blurb, sometimes the reviewing author says "I can't help you with this one, but try me next time".
This should be the case but emerging artists, regardless of medium, are often insecure.

I've not reviewed for anyone. Not friends, not masters who are no longer with us. I simply opt out.

I tell myself it is due to time constraints but my insecurity, with respect to the value and reach of my opinion, plays a large role as well. As does my fear of the types of outcomes @Andrew Leon Hudson speaks of.
 

Sponsors


We try to keep the forum as free of ads as possible, please consider supporting SFFWorld on Patreon


Your ad here.
Back
Top