Marc Turner Interview by Shellie Horst

Despite his best attempts to hide in a corner at a recent BFA and BSFA Pubmeet, Marc Turner’s When the Heavens Fall is far from shy and retiring. “Gritty” and “Grimdark” have been used to describe his first novel, but I like more than grit in my Grimdark, (oi, keep it clean!) and When the Heavens Fall certainly goes beyond expectation. My local Waterstones isn’t any more awash with newly published work anymore than the three (yes I’m spoilt) independent bookstores are, so had When the Heavens Fall not landed in my lap through sheer luck at said Pubmeet I probably wouldn’t have discovered the debut published by Titan Books in the UK and by Tor in the US.

BOOK TRAILER LINK: https://youtu.be/kY6p7GbC4q4

Never judge a book by its cover OR in this case its first chapter! This author demands you stay around for more than a few pages, but it is well worth the time. Marc takes the essential Fantasy trope “Hey team! We must go forth and save the world from terrible and horrific doom. Don’t worry we’ve got each other’s virtues to see us through the dark and trying times ahead.” and instead gives us: “No way mate! Every man for himself.” The first chapter wraps the reader up in the cosy familiarity we expect of and Epic Fantasy narrative, promising us Luker, a ‘charming’* rogue to follow. The supposedly shy Marc then chucks that notion out the window.

SH: That’s not really fair Marc, building up our expectations and messing with us like that. You broke one of the sacred rules! You know, those rules that you, as a debut author, are not supposed to ignore? Yes those. What made you stray from the time honoured ‘Five go on a quest’ story starting point?

MT: Sacred rules? Never heard of them. And no, that scrunched-up ball of paper in the corner is a totally different set of sacred rules.

I think it can be fun to mess with reader expectations. Some of my favourite fantasy authors (Joe Abercrombie, George Martin) do that to great effect. For example, when I read the part in Game of Thrones where a certain main character dies, I couldn’t believe he was actually dead. I had to re-read the scene half a dozen times because I was sure I must have misinterpreted something. If you lead the reader along what they think is a familiar path, it will surprise them that much more when you end up dropping an anvil on their head.

I like stories that mix the familiar with the new. If I read a fantasy book, then I want it to be recognisably “fantasy”, but at the same time I’ll lose interest if it uses all the same old tropes. So in When the Heavens Fall there is a quest element, but I deviate from the norm by sending four POV characters after the same prize – the Book of Lost Souls. Barnes & Noble described it as four epic quests packed into one novel. How’s that for value for money?

SH: I notice you’re still messing with our expectations with your second book in The Chronicles of the Exile series, Dragon Hunters. We don’t get to meet the same characters. There were some likeable sorts in there! Is this something we can come to expect from you or will you exploit that too?

Each book in the series will feature new characters, but from book three onwards you’ll see some returning characters, too. Obviously, not every character will be returning, because not every character will survive. In this series, no one is safe.

SH: We’d best start a petition for our favourite characters now then, eh?

I’m guessing you’re fond of dragons, and let’s face it, dragons sell. Is this novel just a way of shoe horning the fabulous beast into your already created world (and making sure your second book has a pretty cool cover)?

That’s the cynical way of looking at it. So normally it would be the correct way, of course, but in this instance I always had it in mind to include dragons in my story world. I particularly liked the idea of people hunting them for sport, because dragons are supposed to be the apex predators, right? Well, not here. And provided someone remembers to tell the dragons of that fact, I’m sure everything will turn out fine.

SH: Considering the core element of When The Heavens Fall is world domination via a book granting power over the dead, do you have a plan to survive an undead army apocalypse?…Oh, wait, one other thing: no magic allowed.

MT: My plan to survive the undead army apocalypse (because let’s face it, it’s a matter of when it happens, not if) is simple: be the one who starts it. Be the one who unleashes the virus that starts it all (that’s why you’d be wise to heed the “dangerous chemical” warning signs around my garage). The way I see it, if I create the undead, they have to do what I say, right? That seems only reasonable, and zombies are nothing if not reasonable sorts . . .

Oh.

SH: Reasonable zombies and sea dragons who refuse to stick to time honoured traditions. I’m sensing a little character rebellion in this world of yours. Did your characters have a tendency to hijack the plot in Dragon Hunters or were you in control throughout the writing process?

They’ve tried a few times, but I crush insubordination with an iron fist. I write novels with multiple points of view. Each character has his or her own story, but each of those stories has to feed into the larger plot. Imagine if, at the end of the book, three of the characters were involved in a gripping death match, while the fourth was off picking flowers because he’d decided to go his own way. It just wouldn’t work. So I make sure I do enough planning at the outset to know roughly who is going to be doing what, where and when.

SH: The fight scenes for some of your characters hold a lot of detail; does this come from a martial arts based hobby or is it purely research?

MT: Martial arts? No. Research? Well, I played a warrior in Skyrim, does that count? Plus I have more experience than I’d like of being battered by my nephew with his lightsabre.

I think there’s a danger in doing too much research into swordcraft. A fight scene has to feel real, but the last thing you want is for it to turn into something dry and technical. When I write a fight, I try to concentrate on how the character feels during the action. I also search for the one thing that makes this fight different from the others, whether it be the fighting styles of the combatants, the weapons they are using, the location they are duelling in, etc. Without that unique element, every fight in the book would end up feeling the same.

SH: The Dramatis Personae is a fair warning of the number of characters and plot complexity you weave and set up in When the Heavens Fall. Were any of the main characters difficult to write?

MT: I must admit, I love complex books with multiple threads running through them. At the beginning of When the Heavens Fall you have four different characters in four different locations, but during the course of the novel, their stories will increasingly overlap until they come together for a suitably climactic finale. So which is the “main” character? None of them. Each is the hero of his or her own story, and each has their own agenda, their own cause. But there’s only one Book of Lost Souls up for grabs, so they can’t all win, can they?

None of the main characters were especially difficult to write, but if there was one that caused me more problems, it was Luker. A while after the book was “finished”, I wrote a short story in which Luker features (you can read it – or listen to a free narration by Emma Newman of Tea & Jeopardy fame – here) In it, I wrote Luker the way I’d remembered him from the book, but when I went back to look at When the Heavens Fall afterwards, I discovered he was different in a number of respects. He took himself a little too seriously, and he was overly confrontational – even more so than he is now. So I had to do another edit of the manuscript to make him how I wanted him to be. One day I’ll get him back for that.

SH: Tucked away in When the Heavens Fall there is an endearing* Gorlem, Tumbal who is a curious counter to Parolla on her part of the quest. If you could nominate someone to be your guardian angel (not to be confused with a Fairy Godmother – no magic remember?) who would you choose?

MT: Tumbal is one of my favourite characters in the book, and I’ve written elsewhere about why I chose him as Parolla’s companion. If I had to pick a guardian angel, it would be Romany from When the Heavens Fall. Romany is a hedonistic and charmingly ruthless priestess who has a habit of getting her way. Yes, I know you said no magic in your question, but she’d find a way to cheat without you knowing about it.

SH: One more question Mr Debut Author. What’s the most daunting part of being the “new boy on the block?”

MT: The most daunting part is definitely spreading the word about my book. People don’t like to think of writers competing with one another, but in some sense they do. There are only so many books that a person can read each year, so why should they read mine? Aside from the fact that they’re someone of taste and refinement, that is.

There’s always pressure to promote your book. From what I hear, publishers’ marketing budgets are small, so an author must expect to do most of the heavy lifting himself. A lot of promotion is fun, of course – such as doing this interview! But you have to do it in the right way. Someone screaming “Buy my book!” at people is more likely to put off readers than attract them. It’s the difference between dangling the book enticingly in front of them, and beating them over the head with it.

However, if there’s one thing I’ve learnt since my book came out, it’s that you have to be champion of your own cause. If someone has enjoyed your book, you can’t be shy about asking them to spread the word. Nor can you be reticent about singing its praises. It’s your book, if you can’t be enthusiastic about it, how can you expect anyone else to be?

That said, self-promotion only works if there are people interested in listening to what you have to say, and there are times as a debut author when it can feel like you are talking to yourself . . . Wait, is anyone there? Hello?

Hello?

It’s ok Marc, I think they’ve all gone to pre-order Dragon Hunters.

You can find Marc on Twitter and stay on his good side by checking out his website. When the Heavens Fall available here.

*Said with the best Grimdark grit between the teeth of course.

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