SFFWorld's unofficial Top 20 Fantasy Series List

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  1. Memory, Sorrow and Thorn by Tad Williams
  2. The Acts of Caine by Matthew Stover
  3. The Farseer by Robin Hobb
  4. The Coldfire Trilogy by C.S. Friedman
  5. The Wheel of Time by Robert Jordan
  6. The Dresden Files by Jim Butcher
  7. The Dark Tower by Stephen King
  8. The Deed of Paksenarrion by Elizabeth Moon
  9. Mistborn (the original trilogy) by Brandon Sanderson
  10. DragonLance Chronicles by Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman (for sentimental value!)
 
Rob B said:
Wow, apparently our forum members (as a whole) don't read fantasy/fantasies written by women.
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I've read Weis & Hickman, Robin Hobb, Trudy Canavan, and Ursula K LeGuin.

Just that none of them made my top 10.
 
Rob that is an interesting point about the female writers. Only two of the books on my list were by women but one of those was my number two The Second Sons trilogy by Jennifer Fallon. I thought Carol Berg, Anne Bishop and Anne Rice would of received more mentions.
 
Rob B said:
Wow, apparently our forum members (as a whole) don't read fantasy/fantasies written by women.
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So apparently if we do not put it in our top 10 list, we never read it? Interesting concept, but in reality quite ridiculous.

Perhaps if the entire thread was reviewed, several women's names might be recognized. But, I guess it is more fun to just throw out a rank generalization instead.
 
jhawker said:
So apparently if we do not put it in our top 10 list, we never read it? Interesting concept, but in reality quite ridiculous.

Perhaps if the entire thread was reviewed, several women's names might be recognized. But, I guess it is more fun to just throw out a rank generalization instead.
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I don't think Rob was making an unfair generalisation. The fact is only two women (Le Guin and Hobb) feature in the top 20 results. It shows a clear preference in terms of favourite series for those written by men, amongst those who have voted anyway. Results might have turned up more women writers if we were voting for stand alones or SF, but I personally doubt it. Those who have been around this discussion forum for a few years know there has always been a vocal group who state a strong preference for male writers. Anyway, it is what it is. As a reader who tries, and often fails, to read widely, the results of this poll are a nice reminder for me to read more works by women. But it's a personal choice and others are free to read and like what they want.
 
Rob B said:
Wow, apparently our forum members (as a whole) don't read fantasy/fantasies written by women.
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One of the reasons I'm on my current self-challenge to read more female authors -- I realized that I hadn't read enough!
 
This list has reaffirmed that my taste in fantasy differs from a large group of SFFWorld members, and that I mostly read work by women.
 
Heather Myst said:
Rob that is an interesting point about the female writers. Only two of the books on my list were by women but one of those was my number two The Second Sons trilogy by Jennifer Fallon. I thought Carol Berg, Anne Bishop and Anne Rice would of received more mentions.
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I'm a big fan of Carol Berg, but her plots don't hold together well enough to make my top list. And Anne Rice is too trashy. I haven't read Anne Bishop yet!
 
Luke_B said:
I don't think Rob was making an unfair generalisation. The fact is only two women (Le Guin and Hobb) feature in the top 20 results. It shows a clear preference in terms of favourite series for those written by men, amongst those who have voted anyway. Results might have turned up more women writers if we were voting for stand alones or SF, but I personally doubt it. Those who have been around this discussion forum for a few years know there has always been a vocal group who state a strong preference for male writers. Anyway, it is what it is. As a reader who tries, and often fails, to read widely, the results of this poll are a nice reminder for me to read more works by women. But it's a personal choice and others are free to read and like what they want.
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Hi Luke, I have to disagree. I do think that Rob was making an unfair generalization. Just because there is a clear male preference if the top 10 fantasy series authors, it in absolutely no way infers that women authors remain unread. It simply indicates that this segment of readers have found that by and large of the offerings out there, they have preferred those generally written by men. Now if you want to look into why that is, I would suggest looking into the rates of both published series and series sales by both genders. That may be more of where the issue lies. Or it may just be that women prefer to write more prolifically in other genres. I do realize that I may read through male lenses. But, that does not keep me from reading any specific author.

I do agree with you Luke, had a different category been chosen, as you indicated, the results could have been far different. For example, had the thread been about dystopian novels, I think that women would have dominated. From the early greats such as Margaret Atwood and Lois Lowry to the more recent numerous series that are now movies, or likely soon to become so, women have a very strong presence in this genre and have done great work.

Still, I fail to see how this is a gender issue. It is about preferences. Yes, J.K. Rowling has had huge success. But as another poster indicated, I prefer Susan Cooper's work to hers. Yet Susan still did not make my top 10, even though her work was very influential to me when I first began reading fantasy. You indicated that one who tries to read more widely should try to read more by women. I find that instead, they should just try to read more widely. I find that if I am listening to recommendations, or just in my phases of voracious reading, I read a great deal by women because there is much that they write that is great. Or simply, what they have published appeals to me. Yet I am not consciously needing to say to myself that I need to read more women authors. It is not a gender issue. It is simply a book issue.

It would not only be foolish, but I think also insulting, to have to say that if I make a top 10 list I have to have an even number of male and female components in it. I recall in high school, my school had a policy that of the 8 varsity cheerleaders chosen, at least 2 had to be minorities. I recall this wonderful Indian girl who discussed how frustrated she was by that because she constantly had to wonder if she made the squad because she was considered a minority, or because of her abilities. I realize that this may not be the intent of Rob's original post on the subject, but the inference seems to be there at least. Wow, now I feel like I am going all Ayn Rand (woman author, by the way) on you. Sorry about that.
 
By the way, I am not saying that there are not gender issues in the world of publishing, or even in how boys and girls are introduced to authors early on. I apologize if I came across that way. I feel very blessed to have been introduced to quality women authors at an early age by my mother and others, across a variety of genres. Maybe because of that I sometimes wrongly assume that others had that opportunity so early on in life. I do believe that there are real issues in introducing young readers to all genres regardless of gender. I think that this article by Shannon Hale is a good example of it:

http://shannonhale.tumblr.com/post/112152808785/no-boys-allowed-school-visits-as-a-woman-writer

However, that still does not mean that I need to have more women authors listed in a top 10 list of a narrow category, or that most participant in this forum do not read women authors. Two completely issues, in my mind at least.
 
Just because there is a clear male preference if the top 10 fantasy series authors, it in absolutely no way infers that women authors remain unread.
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Don't think that was meant, so it all seems to be down to the choice of one word: how would it be if Rob had said "Wow, apparently our forum members (as a whole) don't rate fantasy/fantasies written by women.?"

Or at least rate them enough to make them feature prominently in their collective Top 20's? For what it's worth, my overall impression, based on what I have very quickly looked at in this thread, would be that if we totted up everyone's list to date, the summary would be male-author-heavy. Rob was clearly surprised by that. (He is allowed.)

Based on one word, (and this is the Internet, don't forget!) I think you've read way too much into that, jh. Personally I'm thinking that it may be down to the unintended use of a word. We all do it - me, usually when I'm typing at 2am!

There's lots of extrapolations made above that are not really what we're after here - all that those who take part have to do is list their own 'personal' top list - regardless of gender, good taste, sock size or anything else. It doesn't even have to based on a strict definition of 'what is Fantasy', though we've had that before, too.

Readers all make their own personal choices when they choose what, or what not, to read - some base their choices on the author, others the plot, some the cover, some the background blurb - that's what makes these choices fun. If people want to make such choices part of a mission to enlighten, then there's nothing wrong with that - but I doubt that was the intention of the original poster here, nor the theme of the thread.

Personally the gender thing's not a particular issue for me, as I tend to go on what I like, regardless of who wrote it. Most of the stuff I have read is written by males, but that does rather reflect the market we're in - not saying that that is particularly good or bad, just how it is. To be honest, the name's often the last thing I look at, unless it's an author I've heard of before and want to read more of. And whilst I accept that perhaps there should be more women writing Fantasy (and the same goes for SF too) I'm also going to suggest that it's not my own personal agenda to follow.
 
If I included young adult and middle grade fantasies in my list, there'd be a lot more female authors. A lot of my favorite authors in these age categories are women. When I choose a book, I don't care about the name on the cover. I look at the description, the reviews--and, yes, the cover. They always say not to judge a book by the cover, but the cover is a major marketing tool. It is meant to appeal to the readers who will like that story.

Of course, publishers can get the cover wrong. Unfortunately, this happens to a lot of female authors. Even if their books aren't focused on romance, the covers make it look like they are. And this, I think, results in a lot of women not being read because people automatically assume the books aren't what they're looking for. I'm also not sure how much the romance aspect of the covers helps if that isn't really the focus of the book itself.
 
1) The entire field of fantasy is not a narrow category.

2) There are thousands and thousands of women writers in fantasy and have been for decades. They make up about half the field in fact, and they are just as prolific as the male writers and quite often more so.

3) The Shannon Hale experience that you mention, jhawker, is an example of how boys and men are taught from early on that books written by women are not for them, will bore them, and are inferior to male written fantasy and fictional works. This creates a systemic cultural bias that causes a lot of male readers to avoid women authors, not review women authors or as often, dismiss a lot of women authors' work as trivial, and find women authors more problematic, not living up to higher standards (no sex portrayals for female writers,) and just not as cool as the male writers.

4) It doesn't hurt you to consider whether you might have some of this cultural bias in your reading and preferences for ranking women authors lower, and if maybe that means that you're missing out on some good stuff.

5) Even if you don't think you are personally biased, it is a statistical truth that members in this forum seldom nominate women authors to top fantasy lists beyond Robin Hobb, and occasionally Le Guin, and that this has been the case for a decade, despite oodles of new women writers entering the field to acclaim and sales. Women authors are also talked about less here at SFFWorld overall.

6) It is also a clear preference of the members of the forum for secondary world fantasy over nearly anything else, again for years. The current top list here is typical -- all secondary world or multiverse/secondary world except for Gene Wolfe's SF series that keeps being considered fantasy (and which is set in future Earth,) and Jim Butcher's contemporary Harry Dresden series.

7) There's nothing wrong with having top ten/twenty lists that reflect narrow tastes in fantasy with few women. But there's nothing wrong with pointing out that it reflects narrow tastes either, and that the women are largely missing. If nothing else, it gets some folk talking about women authors who might be of interest to some members -- folk who may be kind of reluctant to talk about their top authors otherwise because they aren't favorites in the forum's general preferences.
 
Oh boy, here we go with the politics and the preaching :rolleyes:
(I'm not referring to any post in particular, just the gist of it).
 
farseer2 said:
Oh boy, here we go with the politics and the preaching :rolleyes:
(I'm not referring to any post in particular, just the gist of it).
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On that note. Let's keep this open to just results, not the discussion of the results. There will be a discussion thread opened, as N.E. White is going to write a post about these results on the front page. Thread is being locked tomorrow anyways.
 
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I'd like to request more votes for Winnie-the-Pooh. I'd like to see it make Top20. Vote for Pooh, people. That is all. :D
 
1. Malazan Book of the Fallen - Erikson
2. Cosmere (or Stormlight Archive) - Sanderson
3. Acts of Caine - Stover
4. Second Apocalypse - Bakker
5. Dagger & Coin - Abraham
6. A Song of Ice and Fire - Martin
7. Dresden Files - Butcher
8. Wheel of Time - Jordan
9. Legends of the Red Sun - Newton
10. First Law series - Abercrombie
 
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