What sff book would you make required reading?

[psikeyhackr]

As for the "required reading" debate, of course education is indoctrination. But you can't have a shared society/culture without its components sharing some of the same experiences.

Of course thinking for oneself may mean concluding that the dominant culture is stupid.

The idea that Europe is a separate continent from Asia is ridiculous. Only 6 continents on the planet.

I thought Heinlein was great at emphasizing the idiocy of the majority.

 

[Randy M.]

Literature won't help humanity deal with climate change and how our climate scientists can say nothing about unnecessary manufacturing due to planned obsolescence contributing to CO2 production for decades is beyond me

That may not be entirely so. Literature is one of our forms of communication because it can persuade people to certain beliefs. We don't think of the Christian Bible as literature, but it is and look at all the people it has persuaded over time, both for good and not. And I wonder how many people were first made aware of the power of the atomic bomb by John Hersey's Hiroshima or even Bradbury's "There Will Come Soft Rains"? And the ecology movement itself probably started before Silent Spring but that book certainly broadened the audience.

This may be less true now, in the age of the Internet, but almost all communication relies on language to organize and deploy the message, even film, and part of education is knowing how to couch arguments and persuade people about what is happening and why; unfortunately, those tools work in reverse, as well, a two-edged sword, for the literary (Biblical) allusion.

I never said I disliked Bradbury. The Big 3 were just better. I have read Martian Chronicles multiple times and it was never required.

I didn't say -- oh, okay, I did. But that was a function of my lousy grammar. What I meant to say is that what one values determines what one reads and likes and places high worth on. You -- and this time I mean you -- find more value in Clarke and Asimov and while I enjoy them, they don't always scratch the itch I go to fiction to scratch; Bradbury does that more often.

 

[psikeyhackr]

. You -- and this time I mean you -- find more value in Clarke and Asimov and while I enjoy them, they don't always scratch the itch I go to fiction to scratch; Bradbury does that more often.

I have categories I call iSF and eSF. Some science fiction is more informative/intellectual and some more entertaining and not very substantive. Which I prefer can vary with mood but when I make recommendations I lean toward iSF.

I think it was The Long Tomorrow by Leigh Brackett that got me to first understand the significance of nuclear war but There Will Come Soft Rains was more emotionally effective.

When I say literature I mostly mean fiction and stuff that English literature classes promote. One EngLit teacher gave us The Hidden Persuaders by Vance Packard and that is not what I expect. I have long suspected that he was sneaking it passed the administration.

The cultural dichotomy described by C P Snow kind of explains why Bradbury would be more likely to appear in EngLit. One instructor used Rescue Party by Clarke but that was all by the Big Three through high school.

 

[Stanley Steamboy]

English literature teachers make a big deal about Ray Bradbury when Heinlein, Clarke and Asimov are far more intellectually interesting.

Clarke and company are more interesting for SF themes, but English class isn't SF class. The only genre literature that is going to come up in an English class will tend to be the types that subvert their genre to offer a humanist commentary. Like it or not, literature is primarily about reflecting on the human condition, rather than presenting an idea, fantasy, adventure or enigma in narrative format. That's why there is virtually no "science" of any kind in 451 or 1984 - those books are about the present, not the future. They just use the conceit of advanced technology to step around the plausibility issue that screws with suspension of disbelief. That's why Orwell used both SF and fable formats to write warnings about mob politics.

And really, that's the way it should be in a general literature course. You wouldn't teach a general history course and then spend three weeks on the Ottoman Empire postal system, so we don't get away from the heart of literary criticism by focusing on how clever the design of a spaceship can be, or what the Singularity is.


I say all this as someone who was mostly bored by what I read in English class - which is why I read SF for pleasure when I wasn't droning through Steinbeck. Genre books are pleasure books - they will always have audiences. Literature is less fun, and if you want to teach about literature you're going to have to stay close to its core to make an impression.

Clarke, Stephenson and Watts would be great suggested reading for science or technology classes.

IMHO, etc.

 

[Hereford Eye]

If I remember correctly, the aim of public schooling was to produce competent citizens. I am not at all convinced our schools, including our colleges, are turning out competent citizens. Competent citizens understand math up to and including trig; science including basic biology to include basic medicine, basic chemistry and basic physics; the Constitution of the USA, how it is implemented in the 50 states, history of the World, the USA, music (Does anyone teach that modern rap is a derivative of Gregorian Chant?), art (does anyone think Banksy isn't inspired by Gaugin?), literature (tell me that the popularity of post-apocalyptic books doesn't have an impact on things happening today. Does that mean they should be banned? Nope! They should be required reading because the information generated may be useful.). Part of learning is learning why this information is important. This does not happen as a result of presentation of facts that must be memorized to pass tests and obtain good grades. It happens because a student learns to appreciate why it is good to know these facts. As for text books, after reading Loewen's Lies My Teacher Told Me, tell me why I should pay attention to any of the text books haunting our schools today.

I believe the most comprehensive method of teaching these subjects is literature. It follows that teaching children to read using sources other than text books introduces literature as a broad concept and allows them to decide which category best fits their needs and taste and enjoyment.. It also aides them to think about the world around them and ask why.

You don't believe literature can teach basic math? Just for kicks, try Hans Magnus Enzensberge's The Number Devil. There are at least 50 introduction to math books that have no relationship to math text books out there.

There was a tv series a good while back that featured an unemployed actor hired to teach history to a group of bored teenagers. He would come into class dressed as a historical figure, e.g., George Washington, who he began the class with his farewell speech; Teddy Roosevelt's "walk softly but carry a big stick", et al. The teenagers would wake up to interact with whoever he was portraying asking questions, some foolish, some perceptive. By the end of the class they understood something about their history. Of a sudden, history wasn't so boring.

Which do you think would present the reality of peoples of the South Pacific as folk to be learned from: Margaret Meade's Coming of Age in Samoa or Michener's Tales of the South Pacific?
The object of any required reading list is the same as any banned book list: to teach folk there are other ways of learning, other ways of living, other was of contributing to the well being of the human race.

 

[Hereford Eye]

Literature won't help humanity deal with climate change and how our climate scientists can say nothing about unnecessary manufacturing due to planned obsolescence contributing to CO2 production for decades is beyond me

The first example that jumps into my substandard mind is Upton Sinclair's The Jungle. Wasn't too long after publication that the Chicago Stockyards were hounded into change.
Then, Allan Drury's Advise and Consent began to teach people about the nature of our politics and introduce us to the idea that a homosexual man was not evil.
Michael Crichton got into the game with The Andromeda Strain and next thing you know we have the CDC.
Frank Herbert contributed Dune and all of a sudden ecology became a common term.
Did any of these book save the world or did any other book affect climate change? Nope! We are still quite comfortable playing games with the world. But they did spark change. But they did spark awareness which is a pretty solid accomplishment.

 

[Stanley Steamboy]

The first example that jumps into my substandard mind is Upton Sinclair's The Jungle. Wasn't too long after publication that the Chicago Stockyards were hounded into change.

Sinclair wanted change for the workers. What he got was cleaner food for consumers. Not exactly a success story.

I think Herbert brought ecology to SF, not the other way around.

I largely agree that fiction's influence on social change is minimal.

 

[Hereford Eye]

Okay, I'll change this up a wee bit.
Going through my collection, I decided to re-read John D. MacDonald's Travis McGee stories. I began with The Deep Blue Goodbye and 50 pages in the quality of writing has me as absorbed as I was back in the late "80s. Last night thinking about those 50 pages, I recalled two other books MacDonald had written and put both immediately on my TBR list. The first was No Deadly Drug which is non-fiction and the second was his 1985 essay Reading for Survival. If you want to understand why all reading is an essential learning skill, why our current society looks the way it does, or simply want something to shake up your thinking, then go with Reading for Survival. I guarantee it will modify the nature of this thread.

 

[psikeyhackr]

The first example that jumps into my substandard mind is Upton Sinclair's The Jungle. Wasn't too long after publication that the Chicago Stockyards were hounded into change.

Michael Crichton got into the game with The Andromeda Strain and next thing you know we have the CDC.

What we got was The Scarlet Letter, The Mayor of Casterbridge, Catcher in the Rye, 1984, Brave New World, Animal Farm and Romeo & Juliet in comparison to West Side Story. I liked:

and:

 

[Stanley Steamboy]

I never understood the ire about Rye. The book is a quick, easy read and is often funny.

 

[Hereford Eye]

Part of my required reading for teenagers (not necessarily sff)s:

This list is one of my favorites:
https://www.ala.org/advocacy/bbooks/frequentlychallengedbooks/classics

Upfront, I admit that I have only read 26 of the listed books, am familiar with the story of another 16 and have not read the remaining books. I get a particular joy in the fact that I read these books in my teens: The Catcher in the Rye; The Grapes of Wrath; To Kill a Mockingbird; Ulusses (didn’t make the 50 page standard); The Lord of the Flies; 1984; Lolita; Of Mice and Men; Catch-22; Animal Farm; One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest; Slaughterhouse Five (but I read it in the “80s); The Call of the Wild; The Lord of the Rings (read in the “70s); The Jungle; Cat’s Cradle (“70s); and Tropic of Cancer.

You can see how I was warped as a youth.

Now, consider this list: https://www.ala.org/advocacy/bbooks/frequentlychallengedbooks/top10
I may have read 10 to 15% of the books on this list as I am too lazy to do the math but I am astonished to discover the likes of The Absolutely True Diary of a Part-Time Indian; To Kill A Mockingbird; and Of Mice and Men still being banned.

Then, I am tickled by the reasons for some others being banned in the last ten years, such as:
The Handmaid’s Tale banned and challenged for profanity and for “vulgarity and sexual overtones”
Harry Potter series banned and forbidden from discussion for referring to magic and witchcraft, for containing actual curses and spells, and for characters that use “nefarious means” to attain goals. (These didn’t pass the 50 page standard).
The Hate U Give banned and challenged because it was deemed “anti-cop,” and for profanity, drug use, and sexual references
Thirteen Reasons Why banned, challenged, and restricted for addressing teen suicide
The Kite Runner challenged and banned because it includes sexual violence and was thought to “lead to terrorism” and “promote Islam.”
The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night-Time for offensive language, religious viewpoint, unsuited for age group, and other (“profanity and atheism”). Had a truly amazing experience when I gave a teenage grandchild a copy and the parents were infuriated that it contained the word f**k. Two years later he had the book as a school assignment and not a word was said.
The Hunger Games for religious viewpoint, unsuited to age group
Bless Me Ultima for occult/Satanism, offensive language, religious viewpoint, sexually explicit

And, in the immortal words of the King of Siam, “etc, etc, etc...”

I’d make every one of these required reading so that teenagers would be allowed to engage the real problems of their daily life.

 

[Randy M.]

The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night-Time ... Had a truly amazing experience when I gave a teenage grandchild a copy and the parents were infuriated that it contained the word f**k. Two years later he had the book as a school assignment and not a word was said.

What kind of language did they think was used in the high school hallways (or middle school, for that matter)? "I say, old chap, not cricket!" Or, "Golly, gosh, gee whiz, you're a real stinker!"

We seem to be past the days when Ralphie has to gag on Lifebuoy.

 

[Windshadow]

Book banning in Texas schools: Titles are pulled off library shelves in record numbers — NBC News

Facing pressure from parents and threats of criminal charges, some districts have ignored policies meant to prevent censorship. Librarians and students are pushing back.

apple.news

 

[Hereford Eye]

I saw that article and another one about the difference in history text books used in Texas and California. The same publisher produces slightly different text books for each state.

 

[Windshadow]

I saw that article and another one about the difference in history text books used in Texas and California. The same publisher produces slightly different text books for each state.

yes... creepy manipulation for some overarching purpose conspiracy mavens step right up... though the fact that I even thought that thought is rather dispiriting.

 

[Stanley Steamboy]

I asked a friend who grew up in NC in the '90s what they called the Civil War in school: The War of Northern Aggression.

Couldn't believe that was still going on.

 

[Cicero]

I Claudius by Robert Graves

 

[Hobbit]

I Claudius by Robert Graves

SFF? (Alternate history, perhaps? )

 

[Cicero]

SFF? (Alternate history, perhaps? )

I can 't believe I did this.

 

[Hobbit]

I can 't believe I did this.

Don't worry - I think we've all done it. But as a historical novel - I would add it to my list!