Critique: Beginning of an idea.

Hmmm, you might be right about another POV, Kat. There are two that I might use, Agnes, and Inspector (Major)Parker. If I do any I think it would be Agnes as all the other POV's are male.

Anyway, the chapter seven might get bumped to chapter nine, and eight and nine become seven and eight. Being doing a lot of thinking on that. I will just write them and see what happens. I think I have got through the block on this.

You are right, the action is slowing. I am just worried about getting a mid book slump, though the robberies and the tricks got up to by Marie as a medium might get me through that.

And I agree about chapter one, the re-written one is no good. I have tidied up the original and it fits best.

Oh, I submitted a hook for the story to the "GOT HOOK" that Rachel Vater is currently running on her blog.

It is about half way down. Quite pleased with her one line reply.

http://raleva31.livejournal.com/43809.html#cutid1
 
Great news. This one may be the ice breaker at the agent party.

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Hooray for the original chapter 1!!!

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Agnes Reed? Sister Reed? Related? Same name by co-incident? The same person (unrecognisable in plain clothes?).

(*Can you tell I'm somewhat sensitive to the name Reed?* ;) )

***

About the PoV: I'm reminded of a novel I read recently: Julian Barnes' Arthur and George. It's a novelisation of the "Great Wyrely Outrages", in which Sir Arthur Conan Doyle freed a solicitor named George Edalji from a (probably) unjust prison sentence. The book alternates between the two points of view, but it also has the occasional guest PoV (in this case, the police's various PoVs; I suppose those are there to make them come off less incompetent than they otherwise would have).

None of this is really relevant, as you should go with your gut on the PoV. (Just remember that, just because you introduce another PoV, it doesn't have to recurr. ;) )

***

It's great to see you make progress. :)
 
Dawnstorm said:
Great news. This one may be the ice breaker at the agent party.
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I hope so!!!

***

Hooray for the original chapter 1!!!
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A few bits added, but the dialogue,the fact that Hardy is not named until Adams arrives, the prose disjointed, all stays the same.


Agnes Reed? Sister Reed? Related? Same name by co-incident? The same person (unrecognisable in plain clothes?).
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Ooopsss you didn't have the final bit of chapter six did you lol....

(*Can you tell I'm somewhat sensitive to the name Reed?* ;) )
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Yes I know... lol...

None of this is really relevant, as you should go with your gut on the PoV. (Just remember that, just because you introduce another PoV, it doesn't have to recurr. ;) )
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Hmmm need to think on that.... Though I am keeping to one POV per chapter at present.



It's great to see you make progress. :)
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I hope this is the beginning of another push forward with it.... I do need to get it over the half way point in the story, then it will move by itself, Oracle did and so did Llafn Meistr. It was the first half that nearly killed me with both... lol...
 
The chapter I think will be chapter seven is finally done. The following chapter (eight) is half done, though I need to go over it tonight, just got the handle on the motivation of the POV character with regards to the main theme and it need bringing out a bit. Chapter Nine (hopefully) is well outlined, so should not take to long to get down. Chapter ten is written, as is part of eleven so looking good now.

I have 34,000 words done, hope to have over 40,000 done by the time what I have said above is complete. I am more or less nearing the half way point.

Also got the main robbery outlined and details of what happens during the "chase" after the villians. I am going to use a local area, a very dangerous one, even to day, a "floating bog" or moss as it is called.

So it is going to be twenty to twenty five chapters 80.000 to 90,000 words first draft...
 
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Hereford Eye said:
You know, if it wasn't for her hobbies, she'd be making a lot more progress:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/west_midlands/6469489.stm
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They should have known they needed someone riding shotgun if they were heading into the shire.

And coming this way is a bit out of the way if you are heading from Birmingham to Yorkshire, thought it would be quicker using the M1.


AND!!!!! Hint! Hint!! you got time to read the first chapters then? Hint!!! Hint!!!
 
Okay, back to serious business here, Sue, something that has been niggling about in the back of my mind has picked now to make itself known. Have you thought about the symbolic effect of the Hardy character? Based upon the first six chapters, it seems to me that he is a sort of christ-figure but in the opposite sense, like the negative of a photograph, so that where Jesus is said to have died on the cross to redeem the sins of the living, Hardy could be said to have lived to redeem the sacrifices of the dead. He was hung up on the wire (almost as if crucified), rescued and brought back to the living where others (more worthy?) died. He quite clearly carries the burden of this, and the way that the plot appears to be developing, it is a burden that he must discharge by bringing Albert to justice. Was this symbolism, which I think is undeniably there, intentional?
 
BrianC said:
Okay, back to serious business here, Sue, something that has been niggling about in the back of my mind has picked now to make itself known. Have you thought about the symbolic effect of the Hardy character? Based upon the first six chapters, it seems to me that he is a sort of christ-figure but in the opposite sense, like the negative of a photograph, so that where Jesus is said to have died on the cross to redeem the sins of the living, Hardy could be said to have lived to redeem the sacrifices of the dead. He was hung up on the wire (almost as if crucified), rescued and brought back to the living where others (more worthy?) died. He quite clearly carries the burden of this, and the way that the plot appears to be developing, it is a burden that he must discharge by bringing Albert to justice. Was this symbolism, which I think is undeniably there, intentional?
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The simple answer would be no, but my work is never simple, I tend to work in layers, working out my own thoughts on matters within the fictional tale. I can say things in a story I can never say in a post on a subject, or in real life.

I am trying to work with Hardy suffering from surviour guilt.

The ghosts/ghosts are the straw he clings to, their not being able to "come home" is in a way a symbol for him mentally not coming home, or at least not until he has caught the thief. At first I was going to have other characters aware of them, in fact I have hinted that Hardy thinks one person is, but they are not. No other character is aware of them.

In fact Agnes is well on the way to being the other side of the coin. The war, for all its horror, freed her, showed her what a woman could do if she had the courage to do so.(Remember at the beginning of WW1 women could not vote. In 1918 women over 30 could vote and the first woman MP was elected in 1919!) Her guilt is she became free to chose her own path because of the slaughter, Hardy became mentally trapped between worlds because he could not accept he was not responsible for it. Albert used the slaughter both for profit and revenge and still is.

So the capturing of the thief is a lying to rest of ghosts, both real, imagined, and personal.
 
In other words, yes, it's intentional, at least from her right brain's side. :) It became an obvious connection when she told me what she was thinking of for the plot, and I think it will be a strong theme, because the imagery of Hardy hanging from the wire is so powerful.
 
The imagery is very powerful, and suggests some incredible possiblities for the latter chapters. For example, Sue, you could have a series of brief but increasingly intense and increasingly surreal flashbacks to the wire. Or the ghosts, representing --essentially -- the cross that Hardy must bear, could be come increasingly insistent and persistent.

On a meta-level, the story could represent the responsibility of those who lead nations into war to "lay to rest" the ghosts and to honor their sacrifices, ultimately by making those sacrifices worthwhile.


Can you tell that I am very enthusiastic here. :)
 
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BrianC said:
The imagery is very powerful, and suggests some incredible possiblities for the latter chapters. For example, Sue, you could have a series of brief but increasingly intense and increasingly surreal flashbacks to the wire. Or the ghosts, representing --essentially -- the cross that Hardy must bear, could be come increasingly insistent and persistent.

On a meta-level, the story could represent the responsibility of those who lead nations into war to "lay to rest" the ghosts and to honor their sacrifices, ultimately by making those sacrifices worthwhile.


Can you tell that I am very enthusiastic here. :)
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As you know in chapter six there is situation which draws a link between where Hardy is at that time, pressed against a railing, caught on it, his hand again slashed open all mimicking his time on the wire. This again happens in an outlined sequence, most likely chapter nine (once I get eight finished) and it does again mix with a ghostly appearance and yes, they do become more desperate and they will be laided to rest, but that is not the end for Hardy's bearing of his cross. It is laid aside for awhile, then taken up again for the final section, when everything comes full circle.

The problem is at the minute I am very short on time, family commitments, work, the pain in my legs, all are driving writing to the bottom of the list. I hope to get sometime on HoG on Saturday and maybe Sunday if I am lucky, then again this short story that is bubbling in my mind might take over that time. I have just polished up one to submit, want to get this other written if I can at some point. then there is Erebus' Flashspec to deal with lol....
 
KatG said:
In other words, yes, it's intentional, at least from her right brain's side. :) It became an obvious connection when she told me what she was thinking of for the plot, and I think it will be a strong theme, because the imagery of Hardy hanging from the wire is so powerful.
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Split personality, that's me lol ;) I agree it is a powerful image, one seen again and again in photos and paintings of that war. The wire became a symbol in its own right. As I said in the last post time is the killer at present. I want to get this done, but when I have time I am too shattered to write. When I feel I can write and the ideas are coming thick and fast I am stuck at work. And no I can't plonk words down at work on my machine, we work on shared drives. I somehow don't think a chapter of HoG will go down well stuck in the middle of the data flow ;)
 
Holbrook said:
The problem is at the minute I am very short on time, family commitments, work, the pain in my legs, all are driving writing to the bottom of the list. I hope to get sometime on HoG on Saturday and maybe Sunday if I am lucky, then again this short story that is bubbling in my mind might take over that time. I have just polished up one to submit, want to get this other written if I can at some point. then there is Erebus' Flashspec to deal with lol....
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That's not a problem. Even when you're not actually typing, don't things percolate in your brain??
 
There's a difference between things percolating in your brain and writing them down. Writing them down takes time and concentration, and a certain amount of energy. It doesn't lend itself well to multi-tasking. Percolating in your head takes no time and only minimal concentration, so it can be done when you are doing other things, like washing dishes, but then you have to remember and retain all of it or try to jot down enough notes to manage it. Great for plotting, not so good for composing text. The writers who have the biggest advantage, perhaps, are those few whose process is that they do all the composing and revising in their heads, and then simply download it to the page.

But keep percolating and write when you can Sue, and where are my chapters? How come Brian's getting to see them? :)
 
Been working on the outline for the second half of this. The more I think on it, the more the original ending won't work well. By that I mean the time/ setting. This means at some point I need to re-work the "visions" Hardy has, that is no problem. The holding of a hand will still be the main item of importance. But the surroundings will be changed. The whole story is building, it will reach a crescendo, both in action and the knitting of the storylines together at a point, which if I kept to the old outline about a third of the way from the end. The final section, will feel like an add-on. The more I think on it the better it is to have the villian brought to book on Adams' home stomping ground, where the character can help Hardy and end the villian. This place would also dovetail superbly into the beginning of the story, maybe be a type of mirror image of events......

Anyway off to actually get chapter eight finished and maybe start chapter nine. (Though I do have two other chapters written, I am not sure where they fit yet.)

Word count is 35,000 at present, hoping to have it nearer 40,000 by the time I go to Eastercon.
 
Hi Hol!
(nothing useful to add, just haven't said hi in a while!):)
 
Would it still take place in the World War II time period, or earlier now?
 
KatG said:
Would it still take place in the World War II time period, or earlier now?
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At the same time as the thefts. cira 1922. I have the idea of the thefts, the hunt for the villians, aided by a local "retired thief" The chase of them (after robbing Hardy's home) across the fields into Chartley Moss. Chartley Moss is one of England’s largest floating bogs. A raft of peat about 3m thick floats on top of a 13m deep lake. Tractors have vanished through the peat, trees that grow in it sink! And people have in the past been lost there, and the peak in places thins to a mere crust. So Hardy chasing the villians into a landscape very similar to that he was in at the beginning, intent on capturing them and rescuing a person they have taken hostage, getting caught on the barbed wire that used to be looped across the bog in places.... having to chose, having to risk his life again and maybe this time not letting, or believing he let others down, maybe dying for real in the attempt (not sure of this as yet) Full circle in many ways....

All ideas really, I will work towards it, if it is not going to work out well I will return to the original plan. I would use the scenes up to a certain point anyway.

The new idea just feels more solid. I was running into problems trying to detail the other outline out.


Oh, Hiya Richard!!!!!!
 
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