Rugby - formerly 6Nations, formerly WRC

Two of the worst games of rugby I've seen in ages - the refereeing in this Six Nations has been so appalling as to defy belief.

Really? I thought the Scotland Wales match was quite exciting to watch. Wales defended amazingly well against the Scottish attack. I really thought the Scots were going to score a try in the second half but time after time Wales kept them out.

On the refereeing, what specifically made these matches so appalling? I can't say that I thought they were any worse than any other matches I've watched in the last few years.

J
 
To me there are a few key areas of concern in the 6Nations so far and the most obvious and blatant is the breakdown. Call it sour grapes if you like but last week Ireland killed so much ball in the redzone in the first 20mins that I was disgusted that a yellow card was not issued on at least three different occasions. The yellow card is to prevent professional foul play, it is not a final deterrent after five or six warnings - if a professional foul is committed in the 1st or 81st minute then the response should be exactly the same, a sin bin. Twice Wales were within 10-15m of the Irish line and twice Irish players deliberately went offside, off their feet and killed the ball on the ground. Now we had Kelvin Deakhead as a ref, a NZ ref flown half way around the world because he is supposedly one of the best. Yet he failed to do anything about the breakdown, didn't give Easterby a yellow card for tackling Czekaj when he didn't have the ball and was about to score. All in the first half. I hate to say it but if an English ref was in control of the game - I don't like many of them but Spreadbury has the best feel for the game of any ref in the world - then Ireland would have been 2 or even 3 men down in the space of ten minutes. Those are huge turning points, yes Wales didn't do well anyway but the Irish killed our momentum completely at the start and we were drawn into a dogfight.

Consider now that the linesman that day was Steve Walsh who, before being forced to retract his remarks because he is in charge of the Ireland match today and being a show pony anyway, said he'd have penalised the Irish far more harshly, you can see how different the interpretation between top level refs from the same country is. All of this when there are probably more international refs in the British Isles than anywhere else on the planet. Where is Alain Roland, Spreadbury hell even Joel Jutge is a more considerate ref. Yet because NZ play good football and the Super 14 occasionally looks like American Football with cricket scores the refs are supposedly responsible for this free-flowing rugby rather than the players. It's utter nonsense and causes a lack of consistency, which makes the players frustrated. The ref is supposed to be invisible yet more and more they become the single most important factor in a game - it's taking winning and losing out of the players hands and that's just wrong. Look at Wales vs Scotland yesterday, how many times did you see players handle in a ruck - it's illegal, it slows down ball and prevents attacking play but players are allowed to come round the side, over the top, reach in when the ball is secure. It's a nonsense, especially when the ref says 'let go' but doesn't penalise a player. As a spectator it's hugely frustrating, Italy yesterday were terrible at some points on this offense but the ref did nothing (a Welshman as well I may add) What's worse is their positioning, last year (I think) against England the NZ ref stood in Stephen Jones's way despite being pushed three times by the player and asked to move, on our line when Dallaglio scored. Yesterday the Irish ref backed into Jones as Dewey took a crash ball into that channel and Scotland only just failed to score. As the son of a referee and former top class player, let me say these are huge mistakes that would be unacceptable in Division 3 West let alone on an international rugby field. Maybe it's me moaning because Wales suck or maybe the lack of tries in this tournament in matches between even teams is down to the guy with the whistle.
 
I hate to say it but if an English ref was in control of the game - I don't like many of them but Spreadbury has the best feel for the game of any ref in the world - then Ireland would have been 2 or even 3 men down in the space of ten minutes.
I've chatted to Spreadbury a number of times (name-dropping ftw!;)), and I can say with a reasonable degree of certainty that they wouldn't have been - he's not a fan of giving more than one yellow at a time. On the other hand, I do agree he's an excellent ref, so he'd most likely have come down hard on it early on and established control that way... thats mostly irrelevant though.

Have you guys had a look at the new rules they're intending to introduce, basically getting rid of a huge ream of offences around the ruck? Apparently it's been working well in trials, but I'm not sure I can see it being effective at international level. And as an Englishman, I'm definately against teams being allowed to collapse a rolling maul... it's one of the few things we're good at!
 
If you remove any of the offences from around the ruck then the game will slow considerably, be dire to watch and will in all likelihood lose a lot of casual spectators. TBH if anything it needs to be cleaned up further. Also the rolling maul should be banned, irrelevant of how effective some teams are at it, it is a blatant offside where the opposition team has no fair chance to compete for the ball - it's American Football for all intents and purposes, so the sooner that goes the better spectacle rugby will become imo. As for Spreadbury - don't know him, do know I watched him ref a Gloucester match last year where he sent two men to the sin bin for the same offence within the space of five minutes hence the remark but the just was basically what Walsh did on Sunday, first three penalties were for slowing or killing the ball and look how that game turned out. Not a fan of Walsh's but he didn't get a whole lot wrong in that game - just a week too late :rolleyes:
 
If you remove any of the offences from around the ruck then the game will slow considerably, be dire to watch and will in all likelihood lose a lot of casual spectators. TBH if anything it needs to be cleaned up further.

What in the hell does that mean? You Clean it up by adding more offences? Let's be honest here, the next two world cups are already won, and damn you all from taking away from Australia's absolute dominance of another sport. The All Blacks are that freakin' dominant, that we all should be pissin' our pantaloons in fear of what they coiuld actually achieve under someone like Eddie Jones.

The Refs are useless because the IRB has yet to realise that the rules of the sport are indirectly derivative of absolutely nothing, making them akin to something that could be construed as religion. Fobuck that shicrap.

Bring back Forward ball, Eddie Jones as teh real task master of Australian rugby and Chris Latham as the only genius of rugby since Ella. Ella destroyed all.
 
Are you keg? I have to ask that first just in case something silly like having two accounts is going on.

What in the hell does that mean? You Clean it up by adding more offences?

That's what I said and yes penalising the breakdown more effectively will quicken the game up and remove the professional foul known as killing the ball.

Let's be honest here, the next two world cups are already won, and damn you all from taking away from Australia's absolute dominance of another sport.

No-one told me, perhaps I missed that episode of crystal ball watching.

Bring back Forward ball, Eddie Jones as teh real task master of Australian rugby and Chris Latham as the only genius of rugby since Ella. Ella destroyed all.

My father played against Australia and all the Ella brothers, Bridgend took them to pieces on the Brewery field :D The only genius of rugby was Barry John ;)
 
_42695615_hookcelebs416.jpg


Next up our invasion of France and the World Cup, filthy assistants to me - school is finished, the bar is open :D
 
_42695615_hookcelebs416.jpg


Next up our invasion of France and the World Cup, filthy assistants to me - school is finished, the bar is open :D

Pfff, you get that from one win against a team that simply can't hold on to the ball outside of Twickenham?

All the 6N showed us was that Ireland don't have the passion to win, England don't have a clue what teamwork is, France have no consistency, Scotland don't know how to attack, Italy are getting better every year and Wales don't care about rugby, just beating England.

If I was from NZ I'd be laughing all the way to the Final.
 
Pfff, you get that from one win against a team that simply can't hold on to the ball outside of Twickenham?

All the 6N showed us was that Ireland don't have the passion to win, England don't have a clue what teamwork is, France have no consistency, Scotland don't know how to attack, Italy are getting better every year and Wales don't care about rugby, just beating England.

If I was from NZ I'd be laughing all the way to the Final.

I get that from the manner of victory and the fact we could have put a cricket score on you. Ireland not having the passion to win is rubbish, one moment of madness against France cost them the championship is all. England are poorly coached, period. Back-to-back championship wins means France aren't that inconsistent, no arguments with Scotland, Italy are getting luckier every year and rugby is religion in Wales so not caring - yeah right. That makes you 1/6 I believe and if you suggest I'm just being contrary I'll deny it :D :D Don't forget NZ have a strong history of choking in WC's and when it gets to the knockout stages it only takes one bad game for another four years of agony.
 
I get that from the manner of victory and the fact we could have put a cricket score on you.

No you couldn't, the proof is that you didn't. Or are you saying that your team didn't bother taking points that they could have scored? If so surely it is them lacking passion?

Ireland not having the passion to win is rubbish, one moment of madness against France cost them the championship is all.

Not true, a french moment of genius cost Ireland the Grand Slam, Ireland losing momentum and letting in a soft try lost them the championship. To blame the TV schedule for their loss is simply nonsense, if they wanted to win they needed the biggest points difference they could get yet they still let in a soft try at the end because it made no difference to their win.

England are poorly coached, period.
If only it was that simple. Yes they have been badly coached, yes it seems to be impossible for the coach to get the right balance between experience and enthusiasm but Ashton stated clearly when he took the job that the first thing he wanted to do was start to rebuild "Fortress Twickenham" again. He has done exactly that and despite one or two very odd decisions he has certainly made an improvement in English Rugby.


Back-to-back championship wins means France aren't that inconsistent

Then how come they lost to (in your opinion) the worst team in the championship?

no arguments with Scotland, Italy are getting luckier every year and rugby is religion in Wales so not caring - yeah right.

If Rugby is religion how come you are happy about beating England when you put in such a dismal performance throughout the rest of the championship? And I'd say that in International Rugby teams make their own luck, Italy have a long way to go but they certainly performed better than Wales this year.

That makes you 1/6 I believe and if you suggest I'm just being contrary I'll deny it :D :D Don't forget NZ have a strong history of choking in WC's and when it gets to the knockout stages it only takes one bad game for another four years of agony.

I know NZ have a history of peaking early and choking when it matters, but I also remember you saying that England would never win it four years ago and look how wrong you were then.
 
No you couldn't, the proof is that you didn't. Or are you saying that your team didn't bother taking points that they could have scored? If so surely it is them lacking passion?

I'd be intrigued by your definition of passion because it's not the same thing as being clinical. I'm not saying we didn't bother, I'm saying we didn't execute well enough. We had three overlaps and two huge clean breaks all of which were bombed by Shane Williams, it's on the tape - watch it... if you dare :D

Not true, a french moment of genius cost Ireland the Grand Slam, Ireland losing momentum and letting in a soft try lost them the championship. To blame the TV schedule for their loss is simply nonsense, if they wanted to win they needed the biggest points difference they could get yet they still let in a soft try at the end because it made no difference to their win.

I think you misunderstood, I meant the French try at the end of their game with Ireland, which if they hadn't have conceded would have made the final weekend a formality.

If only it was that simple. Yes they have been badly coached, yes it seems to be impossible for the coach to get the right balance between experience and enthusiasm but Ashton stated clearly when he took the job that the first thing he wanted to do was start to rebuild "Fortress Twickenham" again. He has done exactly that and despite one or two very odd decisions he has certainly made an improvement in English Rugby.

Honestly if I was Wales or Ireland going to Twickenham, I wouldn't be afraid, one win against a clearly off par French side (who weren't allowed to play well by England anyway) doesn't make it a fortress, but that's over shadowing the point. The point is consistency, in the last decade it's not something you've struggled with up until the last few years. You're in a huge transition period and it comes down to style of playing, which imo Ashton is getting wrong for two reasons. 1.) You don't have a genuine leader in your team to make difficult decisions and certainly not one who will be in the team for 5+ years. 2.) All the older players (barring Catt) only know one way to play and it's not Ashton's way, he's opened a huge can of worms by trying to re-style players that are too old or too ingrained in the traditional English system to change. It would take a decade, seriously, to change the way a whole country thinks and plays. That's why he didn't work out in Ireland and it's why you'll keep having ups and downs. I know I've slated England a lot for the way they play in the past, but that's your game - going away from it won't do you any favours.

Then how come they lost to (in your opinion) the worst team in the championship?

The worst team in the championship was Scotland and I never said differently, plus the loss of one game in two championships is consistent enough for me :)

If Rugby is religion how come you are happy about beating England when you put in such a dismal performance throughout the rest of the championship? And I'd say that in International Rugby teams make their own luck, Italy have a long way to go but they certainly performed better than Wales this year.

I disagree about Italy, they were hammered by France and Ireland, teams we pushed relatively close, lost to England who we beat :D and then we should at least have had a draw against them in Rome. For the rest of their years in rugby none of the Italians will ever get a start like they did against Scotland, and if Scotland had taken their shots at goal they wouldn't have lost anyway. So two aberrations aside, what did Italy do? Not a lot, if anything they looked less incisive than last year.

So Wales. Of course we were happy about beating England, it's a big game every year whether we're winning a grandslam or contesting (:D ) the wooden spoon. That'll never change. There were calls for Jenkins head after we lost our first three games and the amount of criticism received by a Welsh coach is twice that of any other coach in the international game, never let there be any doubt about that. I don't think it mattered who we beat if it hadn't been you, there were several factors for optimism. The first was the style of play, much better than anything we've played so far under GJ, Hook at 10 looks like an incumbent for years, we scored tries!, our forward pack went well, we stood up to be counted and avoided a probably deserved wooden spoon. The Welsh game is a perpetual cycle of hope and dismay, impossible to satisfy for more than a season yet we keep coming back - that's why it's religion because it is inextricably linked with the people every single day of every single year.


I know NZ have a history of peaking early and choking when it matters, but I also remember you saying that England would never win it four years ago and look how wrong you were then.

Anyone can win the lottery, especially such a small one ;) And if you want to give them the WC go ahead, personally I think whoever wins will have to earn this one.
 
So let me get this right...

France only losing one game doesn't make them inconsistently the best team yet Wales only winning one game makes them a force to be reckoned with.

Also I have trouble with the fact that you put Italy's performance down to luck, you also seem to put England's World Cup down to luck. I like to judge the quality of a team by whether it is capable of winning games. England were world number one at the last WC because they simply didn't lose (Australia in Australia, NZ in NZ, a Grand Slam and a WC would be proof right?). The same with NZ now. If they don't win it won't be because they don't deserve to. As to Italy, imho they are a better team now than they have been at any point since the 5N became the 6N. I judge this on the fact that their game is becoming less predictable and the fact that they have now won away from home and more than once which is a lot more than you can say about some of the other teams in the championship.

I'm not going to get into the whole we beat you and they nearly beat you so we must be better thing. That is pure sophistry and you know it.
 
So let me get this right...

France only losing one game doesn't make them inconsistently the best team yet Wales only winning one game makes them a force to be reckoned with.

Confuse me with your babble hah :D You said France lacked consistency, I said losing one game in the last two 6N is hardly inconsistent. Wales aren't a force to be reckoned with any more than England are, we're dark horses :)

The same with NZ now. If they don't win it won't be because they don't deserve to.

I don't hand out world cups six months in advance with a lot of rugby to be played before the event, to anyone, no matter how good. Form is a guide not a definitive.

As to Italy, imho they are a better team now than they have been at any point since the 5N became the 6N. I judge this on the fact that their game is becoming less predictable and the fact that they have now won away from home and more than once which is a lot more than you can say about some of the other teams in the championship.

A veiled shot at Grandslam champions two years ago and comparison to an infant nation in rugby terms aside, you must not have watched Italy in the last 6N. Unpredictable? I could write their gameplan down on a beer mat for you, last year they played some quality running rugby - this year with Pez they only looked like scoring off short-range charges or other team's errors.

I'm not going to get into the whole we beat you and they nearly beat you so we must be better thing. That is pure sophistry and you know it.

Unless we beat you :D
 
WC Finals tickets sold out in 2 minutes last week! So even though my name was selected from the random draw and I was online to buy them at 9am on the day they were released and willing to pay over £300 for top tickets, I still missed out! :( Grrrrrr :mad:
 
Tough break, I find I can't watch live games any more, my eyesight isn't crash hot and my language during rugby games tends to not fit in social places. Plus I like to see everything that's going on.
 
Just thought I'd better take a five minute break and offer you a wink. Where's that spastic 'Robot dance' emoticon when you need it?
 
At least your press will stop yapping and bleating this week, most of them look like muppets now and I'd say that's a fair representation. Still has no bearing on September in Cardiff in the mud and rain but hey they need to attach some importance to these tours otherwise it'd just be a money-making exercise ....
 
Ain't it sweet.

1998 AB's lose at the 'G', Australia win teh cup

2007, Australia do 'em at the 'G'

Anytime they lose to anyone, the AB's lose their nerve... We now have thirty teams winning the cup... except the kiwis.

Vickerman/Eales/Plank who cares, the line out ruins what could be greatness.

World Cup is now open.

I'm from an English speaking nation... excitement makes us spew snot.
 
If Australia get a mildly competent front row.....World Cup here we come.

Dan Carter was absolute trash today.


BTW, can't wait for Latham to get back. Huxley is absolute crap.
I'm begging for this backline come worldcup. Not going to happen, but I can dream.

Gregan-larkham-giteau-tuquiri-shepherd-gerrard-latham

Who else reckons Mortlock is past his best?

trivia of sorts here- the two player who i've just ragged on, huxley and mortlock, both went to my school...:p
 

Sponsors


We try to keep the forum as free of ads as possible, please consider supporting SFFWorld on Patreon


Your ad here.
Back
Top