The Stark Family Revenge List (Spoilers!!)

[saintjon]

BEWARE O READER! HERE THERE BE GEORGE MARTIN SPOILERS!!

Okay, I'm almost done Storm of Swords, but last night it was getting very hard to read. It's such a painful story. Man, how much will the Starks (the ones who aren't dead anyway) have to go through before they finally get some payback? I mean, I've been mentally howling for vengeance since they killed Eddard, and it just goes on and on. After the Red Wedding I was sitting there thinking,"At this rate, they'll have to kill half the damn kingdom to get revenge"! I'm finding the parts about Arya riding around with the disenfranchised Hound to be very cool though. Reminds me of that movie The Professional. Anyhoo, how long is the list now? The Lannisters, the Freys, Littlefinger, Varys, Arya's litany... it's ludicrous! I'm at the point where I'm hoping Daenerys shows up and just flattens the whole damn kingdom. I'm also waiting for Arya to grow old and rejoin her wolf so she can rain death on everyone.
Damn Freys.

 

[ChrisW]

The dead Starks are the stupid ones. No great loss there. You actually like Daenerys? ewwww

 

[saintjon]

There's a difference between strength of character and stupidity.

 

[ChrisW]

How was it smart of Rob to agree to marry one of the freys and then go and marry someone else and then expect the freys to welcome him with open arms? Where is the strength of character in that???

 

[Eventine]

I believe saintjon was referring to Eddard.

 

[Asraloth]

what's wrong with daenerys, she rocks.

sure its a bit weird suckling dragons at her teet, but she's still a good character.

 

[saintjon]

I was referring to Eddard. As for Robb, well it wasn't smart hooking up with Jeyne. His compassion left him with no choice but to marry her though, and the war left him no choice but to take what the Freys offered. He knew damn well what he was getting himself into, but his heart meant more to him than his head. Would you rather he'd tried to attack King's Landing, who would have had him outnumbered 10 to 1? If you ask me that would have been much stupider than resolving to do whatever it takes to return home and save those who depend on you most. The simple fact remains: what's a king without a kingdom?

 

[Eventine]

What's a kingdom without any subjects?

A lot of people must have died with Robb - there can't be that many people left in the North now.

 

[Midus]

I want more of them to die

. Martin's device of following the Stark family is getting awkward by book three. It was a great way to lead the reader into Kingslanding but since then the focus of the plot has shifted. Bran and Rickon could have died in truth as far as the rest of the plot is concerned, and Arya's 500 pages of running in cricles is little better. The 'child on a quest' bits don't seem to fit with the rest of the book.


Anyone else think that Jon Snow is the child of Rheagar Targaryen and Eddard's sister? Somehow he, Daenrays, and Tyrion are going to end up being the 3 heads of the dragon. I doubt Martin would kill of his favorite character before throwing him that bone.

 

[ChrisW]

So what you are saying is Robb put his personal feelings before that of his kingdom? That makes him an idiot and a bad king

.

Oh and Daenrays is a sick twisted little girl.

I liked Tyrion in the first two books but in the third I really didnt like him at all. Shooting his daddy on the potty was the last straw for me.

[This message has been edited by Caldazar (edited February 28, 2002).]

 

[Mithfânion]

Anyone else think that Jon Snow is the child of Rheagar Targaryen and Eddard's sister?

Yes, it's assumed by most fans to be so. I do not think Tyrion wil be one of the three Dragons though. I'm thinking Aegon Targaryen, who was supposedly killed. GRRM has made some extremely interesting hints about him in e-mail...

[This message has been edited by Mithfânion (edited February 28, 2002).]

 

[Mithfânion]

Caldazar, some observations..

How was it smart of Rob to agree to marry one of the freys and then go and marry someone else and then expect the freys to welcome him with open arms? Where is the strength of character in that???

As any reader would have noticed from the numerous ominous references to what was about to come at the Twins, Robb Stark never expected the Freys to welcome him with open arms. Entire chapters are dedicated to discussions about how best to appease the Freys. Have you missed this or are you simply trolling?

Was it smart of Robb to marry Jeyne. No. It was passion. One could argue that it was one of the very few "faults" of this very young King. Obviously you'll note that I liked Robb Stark tremendously but even people who don't care for Robb that much admit that given the circumstances, he was a great King. He made all sorts of preparations about what was to become of the North, how he would retake it after the talk with the Freys (even sent Jason Mallister and Lady Mormont ahead through the Neck to make preparations), who would be the new ruler if he should die (Jon). He made a lot of great decisions which you don't seem to give him credit for. Not to mention being a brilliant commander at war,counselled by Brynden Blackfish. He knew there would trouble at the Twins and knew petty Frey would make sniding remarks. He still went. Not listening to Grey Wind and marrying Jeyne were mistakes. But do not make him out to be some idiot who doesn't know what he's doing.

The dead Starks are the stupid ones. No great loss there

I disagree. Eddard Stark was not an idiot but he certainly was betrayed. You consider all betrayed people idiots?

Oh and Daenrays is a sick twisted little girl.

You base that on what exactly?

I liked Tyrion in the first two books but in the third I really didnt like him at all. Shooting his daddy on the potty was the last straw for me.

And Tywin Lannister didn't deserve it? After what he allowed his son to got through at Joffrey's wedding, after what he did to Tysha, after he made him marry Sansa Stark, after...... add another one hundred things here. Tywin Lannister was an incredibly petty man. He deserved what he got. Even with a crossbow aimed at him he still called Tysha a whore, which she never was. Not to mention that he had slept with the woman he loved, Shae.

As an aside, have you forgotten what Tywin told Tyrion all his life? Not only that he was a total disgrace to his family and that he didn't want or accept him as a real son, but also that Tyrion killed his mother. And Tywin blamed Tyrion for that all his life, often calling him a little monster with his mother's blood on his hands.



[This message has been edited by Mithfânion (edited February 28, 2002).]

 

[Midus]

I suspose you are right about Tyrion not being a head of the dragon; it wouldn't make a lot of sense. But, as soon as I saw him say 'Even a short man can look down on the world from the back of a dragon' in the 3rd chapter, I was sure it was going to happen.

 

[Mithfânion]

Well, there are ways for it to make sense and in fact I have seen people argue for it rather convincingly. I just don't see it happen. But GRRM has said " that the third head of the dragon isn't necessarily a Targaryen" which opens up to a whole range of candidates. I personally think it will be either Aegon, Tyrion or Bran, with Aegon being the likeliest after GRRM's comments.

Interestingly, GRRM has indicated that we will see Dany's dragons " and one more" . This could be a symbolical reference to Aegon, or Aegon and a dragon. Or it could be Stannis Baratheon who finally brings life to his stone dragon.

 

[Rupert Avery]

The way Daenrays has overcome so much has been a great read.

Has any one though that the books my not be about the Starks but about the Lannister`s. When you look at it most books show one group of people and the problems that they have and then how they overcome them.
If this is about the Starks GRRM has them in a huge whole that at the moment looks like they may never get out of.
Yes it would be great for the Starks to get revenge but some how this does not look good.

This story may be one when the bad guys may win the Lannister`s. But by saying this just put yourself in the Lannister`s place and you will see that it is in fact the Starks who are the bad guys.They have gone against the crown and tried to start there own power base for a least half the kingdom.Yes to them it may seem just but to the true ruling family it is an outrage.

There may be some inbreeding going on and it may seem wrong but has not the kingdom been ruled alot longer by a family that practiced that the Targaryen(the pure blood).

 

[saintjon]

Have you forgotten about Jon Arryn now? I didn't notice Eddard Stark rushing to kill the King's Hand to conceal the truth about Jon, that he was his bastard son with Lyanna *dripping sarcasm*. Good guy/ bad guy thinking is always a matter of perspective I just like the Starks better.

I'm not saying the story is solely about the Starks, either. Martin's a better writer than that. This is an open discussion forum though and I'm free to express my hopes as a reader that they get the revenge I feel that they deserve. Well put Mithfanion, that's exactly what I was thinking.

[This message has been edited by saintjon (edited February 28, 2002).]

 

[Rhaegar]

I read in an interview with GRRM that he confirmed that the last half of the series will focus on the comeback of the Starks. I think the events of a Storm of Swords was the low point for the Starks. Now we will start to see the revenge of the Starks - or at least I hope so.

 

[Blizzaurel]

I'm actually hoping that Daenerys comes back to take over the whole kingdom. I don't think she's sick and twisted at all, and she's got the most hereditary right to the kingdom... if that's valid at all.

I want the Starks to start getting some revenge, though, and I think Martin was giving a hint of that in the end of Storm of Swords with Catelyn and all.
Hope she goes on a killing spree.

 

[ChrisW]

Oh and Daenrays is a sick twisted little girl.

You base that on what exactly?

Ah from what I read. If you don't think she is slightly insane then umm mb you are

.

And Tywin Lannister didn't deserve it?

Umm killing your own father isnt a good thing you know. It doesnt matter if he deserved it or not he was still his father.
Oh and I liked Tywin Lannister. He was just doing what he thought was best for his family.

 

[Mithfânion]

Oh and I liked Tywin Lannister. He was just doing what he thought was best for his family.

How exactly does his constant demeaning behaviour towards his son benefit the Lannister family?

How exactly does sleeping with Tyrion's whore benefit the Lannister family, especially considering that Tywin Lannister has always been on an absurd crusade against anything to do with whores. And then he sleeps with them. Is there a bigger hypocrite?

How did humiliating Tysha benefit the Lanniste family, other than having his soldiers laugh at Tyrion because he got to rape his wife last?

I realize there are no answers to these questions Cal, other than to admit that he was a vile creature. Perhaps you were being tongue-in-cheek?
Killing your father is never right, that's for sure. But then, Tywin always said, even on his dying moment, that Tyrion wasn't his son. Which may actually be true...
As for Tyrion killing any man, I cannot pity Tywin Lannister, who, after all, conspired with the Freys and Boltons to brutally slay Robb Stark whom he couldn't beat in the field. Though at least from Tywin's pov it makes sense.

Ah from what I read. If you don't think she is slightly insane then umm mb you are

I already see several others in this thread who've expressed that they don't think Dany is insane at all. I don't think she is either and frankly I don't see how you can infer that she is. Why is she insane Cal? When that question is answered I might be able to grasp why I'm a weirdo for not "getting"it.



[This message has been edited by Mithfânion (edited February 28, 2002).]