LOTR: Return of the King discussion (spoiler thread))

fluffy bunny

fluffy bunny

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Feel free to discuss what you thought of the new LOTR movie below. This is the SPOILER thread, so if you don't want the film spoilt for you, look away now ;), and head to the non-spoiler thread.

As for the rest of you, post away...
 
Is it true that they've omitted the Scouring of the Shire and the Farewell at Grey Haven?

Even from the director's cut DVD?

That would be truly blasphemous.

They strayed far enough from the books in Two Towers, when Faramir suddenly has a serious weed up his arse and decides to take Frodo to Osgiliath, boy was that scene ever ridiculous. The nazgul comes within inches of recapturing the ring, only thwarted by a quick intervention by Sam, and then it just gives up after one try!!!!

Plus, what the HELL were Haldir and the rest of the elves doing in Helms Deep???

And why, oh WHY, dear Peter Jackson, in the name of all that is good and holy, WHY did Aragorn fall into a river?

The worst part of all these changes is, I fail to see what purpose they serve. Even though I hated it when he left out Tom Bombadil and the Barrow Downs, I could understand it as a way to shorten the movie to appease the braindead moviegoers who can't possibly control their blather for any longer than two hours at max.

But these changes in TT, they're so incredibly pointless! It's like Jackson decided to go on the power trip of the century or something.

And Liv Tyler has actually made me hate Arwen. I'm constantly hoping she'll trip over the hem of one of her dresses and impale herself on something, so Viggo can get it on with the much more charming and talented Eowyn.

I have some major issues with the casting. Liv Tyler is heresy. Elrond is Agent Smith. Sean Astin looks too greasy and sweaty to be Sam. Elijah Wood is okay, though not the greatest actor in film history.

And yeah, the flaming vagina that they cast for Sauron is also a bit weird :p.

Well, guess that was mostly about TT, huh?

I just hope Jackson hasn't decided that Hutula should join Frodo and Sam in their quest, or that Gandalf suddenly turns evil and starts smiting his former allies, or that Merry and Pippin die while finding the entwives. I wouldn't put it past him.

Greetings
Artaxiad
 
ah! yes! most of that i don't agree with, but at least someone see's that Elrond is COMPLETELY wrong!!!
 
Whoa, whoa, settle down Loras! This is a ROTK thread, not a Un-vented TTT issues thread! :)

But here are my answers to almost all your points.

1. Watch the Extended TTT DVD, and the special feature entitled "From Book to Script, adapting the story" which gives an in-depth explanation for all the major changes. You might still disagree with them, but at least you will understand the reasoning behind the changes you mentioned (i.e. Faramir and more)

2. Some of the Extended footage makes some of the changes make more sense, again concerning Faramir.

3. The Nazgul almost getting the ring in Osgiliath... one of the most debated "mistakes" in the trilogy. The thing is, it's NOT a mistake! The Nazgul are BLIND! That's why in the books/films of FOTR and ROTK, the Nazgul were pretty much just as close, and they still couldn't "see" the ring... but this is still open for debate. I just think people have exaggerated the "mistake".

4. Aragorn's "fall" of the cliff was, as explained in the Extended DVD, a device to set up the "psychic connection" between Aragorn and Arwen. Yes, his fall seems pointless, but it was either that or have Arwen at HELM'S DEEP!!! (And yes, in the Extended DVD, there is some behind-the-scenes- footage of Arwen actually rehearsing at Helm's Deep), so I think that Aragorn's falling off the cliff is better than what could have been.

5. The Eye of Sauron rules!!!

6. Yes, the Scouring of the Shire is gone, not even in the Extended version. However, the farwell at the Grey Havens is IN the movie, even the theatrical edition. It's Jackson's favorite scene in the book and the film.

7. Yeah I know, Haldir wasn't supposed to be at Helm's Deep... but what's the big deal? How does it really tarnish the story in any way? Plus, as Jackson says, there WAS supposed to be some fighting going on at Lothlorien and Rivendell, which they couldn't fit into the film, so why not have some elves join the fight somewhere else?

8. As for the casting issues, Sam is greasy? Shouldn't a fat Hobbit on his way to Mordor look sweaty/greasy? And yes, Elrond is Agent Smith, but that's the case with almost EVERY single Hollywood movie starring any famous actor. For example, can you ever look at Brad Pitt and NOT be aware that you're looking at Brad Pitt, regardless of his role? or Ben Affleck, or any other "star"... actors are overused, that's all. :)
 
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I think the elves comming to helms deep was an amazing idea, in the book the elves did didaly-squat, but now they show that they still care for middle earth.
 
You know, one thing I hope to see, allthough I seriously doubt they'll show anything, is maybe some mentioning of the dark god Morgoth, or maybe even a flashback of when Sauron was serving under him before he became the Dark Lord. Probably wishful thinking, though. :(

Many of the things I'm definitely looking forward to seeing on the big screen is Shelob, the Demon Watchers at the Black Gate (or whatever their called) Sam rescuing Frodo from Cirith Ungol, Eowyn battling the Witch King, the Battle of the Pelennor Fields, the Mouth of Sauron, the Dead Men of Dunharrow, and when Gollum and the Ring fall into Mount Orodruin.
 
Hey Z, how do you know about Morgoth? I thought you hadn't read the Silmarillion? Anyway, just so you know, there IS a mention of him in the Extended version of the first film. It's the scene where they first meet Galadriel, and she realizes that Gandalf is dead. In the Extended version, they added a line where Legolas says "He was taken by both shadow and flame. A Balrog of Morgoth, for we went needlessly into the net of Moria!". I shivered when I heard that. Even mentioning Morgoth's name (or other such things as the Numenoreans) makes the world feel so much more real, so much more like Middle Earth.

In the second film, during the flashback of the Balrog's death, Gandalf also makes a mention: "From the lowest dungeon to the highest peak, I fought him, the Balrog of Morgoth."

As for the third film, I have one piece of bad news for you. The Mouth of Sauron scene has apparently been cut, and we can only assume that it will appear in the Extended ROTK DVD... it sucks, I was really looking forward to that character as well.
 
Evil Agent. Gods, no!! Say it ain't so!! They cut the Mouth of Sauron scene from ROTK?!! They cut out the infamous and darkly glorius dark Lieutenant of Bara-Dur?!!! I can't tell you how dissapointed and angry this makes me! I was really looking forward to seeing him in the movies! I thought the Mouth of Sauron was an absolutely awesome character in the ROTK novel, allthough his part in it only lasted a few paragraphs, if I remember right. But, man, when I first read about him in ROTK, cold shivers went up and down my spine, he was one heckuva creepy and foreboding character, and it absolutely bursts my bubble that they won't show him in the movie! Utter blasphemy, I tell you! :mad:

As for me finding out about Morgoth, how I found out about him is actually kind of an odd circumstance. While I was reading the LOTR Trilogy four years ago, I was looking through various LOTR-inspired art by some of the most famous fantasy artists such as John Howe and Ted Nasmith, when I came across a really awesome-looking picture drawn by Ted Nasmith. This is the picture I saw:

morgoth.jpg


The picture was entitled "Morgoth vs. the High King of the Noldor". Needless to say, I was really interested in this picture with it being so awesome, and I went to theonering.net message board, which I was a member of at the time (I left because most of the members turned out to be utter narrow-minded snobs who thought Tolkien was the be all and end all to fantasy and anything else was blasphemy. Heh, freaks! :rolleyes: ) and asked them to tell me, without spoilers who Morgoth and Fingolfin were. They told me all they could about Morgoth without spoiling it for me and I was completely amazed by this character, Morgoth is one of the many main reasons I want to read the Silmarillion!
By the way, I do remember Gandalf saying that he fought the "Balrog of Morgoth" in TTT, but I wasn't sure up till now when you told me what he said, if he said Morgoth or Moria because the loud sound effects in the flashback scene of him battling the Balrog kind of muffled that part of his speech. But, among many of the characters from the LOTR saga I would like to see on the big screen, Morgoth is definitely near the top of the list, if not at the very top! :)
 
Yeah, he's pretty bad-ass. He's name is actually Melkor, but the elves re-named him Morgoth which means something like Dark Enemy or something. That painting is pretty cool, and the scene it illustrates is a good one too!

Alas, I too am sad that the Mouth of Sauron has been cut! I even remember seeing a picture of the actor they cast to play him. :(
 
Bythe way, while we're talking about the LOTR movies, does it bug anyone that the Uruk Hai orcs are too human-looking? In my opinion, they are, and it bugs me a bit. You see, I've always imagined the goblins/orcs in The LOTR novels to look like the orcs/goblins the fellowship encountered in the Mines of Moria in the FOTR movie, you know, long, wickedly-pointed ears, cat-like/reptile-like eyes, razor-sharp teeth, a bat-like or pig-like face, long black hair, and a long, thin, spindly body. And I imagined the Uruk Hai to look basically similar to this, only more buff and not spindly.
But in the movies, in my opinion, the Uruk Hai look too human-like and not very goblin/orc like. They basically look like buff Drow (dark elves) with only a hint of goblin features, which is still awesome and all, but not quite what I was expecting. Was anyone else bothered by this, or am I just crazy?
Or am I perhaps wrong? I have to admit, it has been quite a long while since I've read the LOTR Trilogy and I'm wondering if perhaps the way the Uruk Hai orcs look in the movies is the way Tolkien described them in the books?
 
I don't think Tolkien ever SPECIFICALLY describes them, but he does allude to the fact that they are a cross-bred race, most likely a mix of goblins and men.... so I think Tolkien actually implied some human ancestry in the Uruks. The Hobbits even see some goblin-like men in Bree, when they're at the Prancing Pony.

But I know what you mean, their faces could have been a bit more gobin-like... However, I really like the variety of Orc species in the movies and am perfectly happy with the Moria orcs, the Mordor orcs, and the Uruk-Hai orcs.
 
I like the Uruk-hai in the movies.


THEY CUT OUT THE MOUTH OF SAURON!!!

HE'S THE GOD DAMN MOUTH OF SAURON AND THEY CUT HIM!
I was looking foward to seeing a visual of him, since I could never picture him in the books.

:( :( :( :( :( :(
 
I made up my own kind of picture for the Mouth of Sauron in my mind. I imagined him to have long, raven black hair, a ghastly thin, corpse white face, glowing, blood red eyes, pointed white teeth, a wicked-looking satan-like gotee, and clad from head to toe in ornate black armor, adorned with blood-red jewels, and having a long, folwing black cape. I also imagined him to have a black helm shaped in the face of a demon, with ivory horns emerging out the side of its head, and a visor to pull down over half of his face.
Pretty wicked lookin' description, eh?! :cool:
 
I'm not a big fan of the books, so Jackson changing things doesn't bother me in the slightest. In fact, I'm genuinely glad he did. Otherwise, we'd have some boring characters and poor pacing (my major complaints with the novels).

I thought the films were really well cast--which really comes out in this last film. The acting surprised me. Really well-done. The sets were flat out incredible, and ROTK contains the best battle ever filmed, IMO. It's friggin' amazing. Even more so when seeing all three films in succession (I was at the trilogy screening). Made Helm's Deep look like a mere skirmish.

All-in-all, I love this trilogy, and for the first time in my life I prefer the movies to the books. I give Jackson a hell of a lot of credit for this, and even for him to undertake such a huge project, do it justice and give tons of exposure to reading, he deserves some admiration and I'll refrain from nitpicking. I hope he sweeps the awards this year, but whether he does or not, he's made his mark on the history of film. Bravo.

Gonna go watch ROTK again tomorrow. :)
 
They cut a great many things.

I, for one, could really care not one iota less. Not even a breath is wasted on a sigh.

Peter Jackson has been given the task of bringing to life a trilogy of books that so ensnare the imagination as to put to route all critics by the unquestionable fact they transcend mere escapism into the level of epic where very few have truly succeeded--

But these films are nothing short of breathtaking.

It would be a simple matter to seek the flaws. To voice concern over what was or what wasn't--but for me, I do that on a daily basis. For once, it was sheer joy to be thoroughly transported by this film.

I want nothing more than to allow the moments that touched my heart to linger--the moments that took me back to the realm of wonder and awe where, in this day and age, these emotions are a hard-sought treasure.

Good job, Mr. Jackson.

Well done.
 
I was a smidgen disappointed that there was no Mouth of Sauron. Woulda been kinda weird, him popping up in the last minutes of the conflict though. Was not an important character at all.

The Seige of Minas Tirith had some extremely cool moments, such as the Oliphants, the warrior-trolls, and the Nazgul dive-bombing.

Shelob was much better than I thought she'd be. A very slick monster battle.

The Nazgul screams were the best sound effects I've heard in the theater.

The Witch King fight was cool, but too short. Could have used about 30 seconds more fighting, maybe swatting some nearby Rohirrim, like Sauron does in the first movie, with that huge morning star. As it was, it was over in a blink.

Denethor's character was a bit shallow, but he served his purpose in the grand scheme of the story just fine.

I liked the epilogue. It's an epic, and it deserved all those endings.
 
Didn't get chance to post when I got back late last night.

However, the film was really good.

There are scenes where my mouth just dropped open - the flying Nazgul were fantastic, the battle at Miras Tirith, the lighting of the beacons across the mountains from Gondor to Rohan, the ride of the Rohyrrim, the army from the Dunbarrow was pleasantly scary.....but in all of that there were the characters.

Aragorn came into his own here, I was impressed by King Theoden and Gandalf kicks butt far better than Yoda ever has. ;) Sam and Frodo were a little wearing in places IMO, but on the whole it worked - very well.

The 'book that could never be filmed'.... well, if that's the case this was not a bad job.

And yes, there was no Scouring of the Shire but there was the Farewell at Grey Haven... and it was pretty good.

I'm happy to have seen it through over three years - what will we do next Christmas? :)

Will be going again on Saturday and already looking forward to the Extended version!
 
All I can say is that I feel drained. I've been a LOTR freak for years, and the last two years in particular have been very emotional! Finally seeing the conclusion of the Trilogy seems to have lifted a weight that I never knew was there! There is REAL closure with this film.

Yes, I LOVED IT, every scene, but all I'll say here is that the negative reviews I read were WAY exaggerated. I was actually quite nervous going in to the movie, but my fears were laid to rest. Especially with the opening Smeagol/Deagol scene, which I heard was bad and overacted. IT WAS AMAZING! And VERY scary. I had chills in the first minute of the film! And I loved the completely different opening music.

And the ending of the film was BEAUTIFUL, perfect, not too long like other reviews have said. All in all, the movie felt too SHORT! I can't wait for the Extended Edition which will fill in a lot of the missing scenes, possibly my only complaint with the film.

Oh man, where to start? Some highlights: Minas Tirith, Gandalf, Denethor, Witch King, and the whole climax at Mount Doom. It almost seemed "too sacred" to show on the screen; it was exactly how I imagined it. Oh yeah, one last comment, the acting seemed a LOT better in this film! Elijah Wood and Sean Astin in particular seemed a lot more believable than in Towers.

Beautiful movie. I cried 4 or 5 times, I had to try as hard as I could not to cry at the end, cause I didn't want to be sobbing when the lights came up! :)

Can't wait to see it again... and again... and again!
 
For those that have seen it--I want to know the monster count. Is there anything in it that rivals the Balrog for coolness? I havent read the book(s), but if I am going to sit through a 3 and a half hour movie I want to see a cool monster. Giant elephants with extra tusks does not do it for me. Ditto for flying dragons. I heard about the spider--but does it just look like a big spider?
If so--then I'll wait for dvd.
I did see the first two in the theatre--but they had the Balrog.
heh
 
Ok, so, no dragons...no giant elephants...no gargantuan spiders that don't look like, heck, big aliens or something, with glow in the dark chitonous armor bleeding acid or some such...

Thousands of restless glowing dead might not do it....tens of thousands of orcs could be dull...

Wait! Trolls! They have trolls! They....oh....okay, you've seen that...

Gollum is passe, probly...

Oversized walking, talking trees? Oh, sick of that, right.

Ethereal, floating evil eye that sees all! Yes, it's...it's...been done, right...

OO! Eagles! Big freakin' EAGLES, SWOOPIN' around like, like.......

....no?

Heck, I guess you're right...there's absolutely nothing epic about this film at all--certainly nothing to warrant seeing it on a big screen.

From now on, I'll only go to the theatre to see Harry Potter movies!
 
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