LOTR: Return of the King discussion (spoiler thread))

they didn't include the bit where Eowyn and Faramir get together!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
how rude!
 
Originally posted by Ickle Lulu
they didn't include the bit where Eowyn and Faramir get together!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
how rude!
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Definitley DVD bonus material, methinks. The theatrical version's compressed version of events probably made it difficult to include without making it seem like a five-minute courtship (it will still be interesting to see how it goes).
 
One more thing....

Looking back over this thread, I think one of the most important points made was by Julian when he commented to the effect that the Jackson ending failed to capture the melancholy feel of the book.

The shire, by the absence of the 'Scouring', carries on, like a fly trapped in amber, much as it always did, even though events in the rest of the world have moved on. Jackson's hobbits can blithely return home to a shire unchanged in a way that Tolkien's never could- who returned home from war to find their society virtually destroyed by petty gangsterism.

The sense of the victory of the west as a pyrrhic one, having come at unimaginable costs, is also to some extent muted by all the sentimenality of hobbits bouncing around on beds and giving one another deep and meaningful looks.
 
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oops

Double post, Mods- please delete this one.
 
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Although I enjoyed the film, I was a little dissapointed that the cleaning of the shire was missing. That's my only real complaint. I found it quite easy to immerse myself in it, as long as I didn't try and compare it to the book, which in my opinion is slightly unfair. After all look at the thickness and detail it contains. Not only that where do you say enough is enough? Would you really and answer truthfully want to sit in a cinema for lets say if they follow it faithfully perhaps 4-5 hours?


Still worldwide its taken 326million worldwide, not a bad return huh!
 
Originally posted by Caleddin
Would you really and answer truthfully want to sit in a cinema for lets say if they follow it faithfully perhaps 4-5 hours?

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In a word: no. But there are two other words which make it palatable: Extended Edition. Fingers crossed.
 
ROTK

I agree with some things that each of you say in your criticisms and praises. Some of the criticisms are a bit harsh though, I would say, but that's just me, as everyone is entitled his/her own opinion. Some people take the books a bit too seriously, that's all. I have read the books, but after I read them, guess what??? I moved on with my life. I don't spend all my time with my nose in the LOTR trying to find discrepencies with the transformation of book to film! Just accept it for what it is! Look at it this way too...
There have never been any better fantasy films made, EVER!!!!!! Don't even try coming back and saying that Willow or Legend or some crap like that could even hold a candle to LOTR. Those movies may have been good in their time, but if you've seen them lately as I have, they are quite bad. Can you even fathom that like 15 or 20 years from now, we'll look back at these films and think they are cheesey? Nah, I don't think that could be possible.
There are some minor annoyances though, I think, with these films. I don't particularly appreciate the way Legolas is made into a Hollywood blockbuster star in each of the 3 films. I like his character, but sometimes, it seems to be just a bit of overacting, and a bit too supersmash blockbuster Swartzeneggar for me. Even still, I watch the movies all the time, and I don't cry about this kind of stuff, cuz I still love the movies, as I think any fan of fantasy should.
What if the story was written to script before it ever was formed into an epic novel? Would people see it differently then, or would they still be criticizing the hell out of it. Anyways, I appreciate all of your opinions and respect them all. Most of them at least. :)
 
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It all depends on the authour. I will leave the next bit out on account of flaming.
 
Re: One more thing....

Originally posted by Ouroboros
Looking back over this thread, I think one of the most important points made was by Julian when he commented to the effect that the Jackson ending failed to capture the melancholy feel of the book.
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At this point, of course, I should remain elegantly silent.

But no... I'll disagree with Ouroboros.

It's not melancholy that marks the end of LOTR, but tragedy. I should amend my earlier post in this regard: it's not romance - the sense of loss - but loss itself that counts here.

This is the essence of the Scouring of the Shire: that things are, henceforth, mundane and merely humane. That this is the Age of Men, no more.
 
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Final verdict : a flawed masterpiece whose weaknesses are probably swallowed up if the trilogy is considered a whole (as the problems with the last two movies are as well).
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Well put. Nearly all of my complaints no longer held when I saw the the trilogy as a whole. But I can also say, since I'm not a big fan of the books, any changes made bothered me not at all. I don't think I had as much to lose as the average fantasy fan.

I'll hold any real judgements of the third film until I see the Extended Version.
 
QUESTION!!!


Oh, And one thing: HAS THERE BEEN A "SMALL" MISSTAKE IN THE MOVIE? I mean when they are at the black-gate they ride on horses and then suddenly the horses have dissapeared...

I must say that the beginning surprised me a bit.. but once I got over the chock. It was a good movie except didn't like the monsters (orcs...) of sauron that looked like some evil robots or something. well actually one + is the oliphants.. they were good. The Uruk-hai were designed much better than sauron's orcs..

The Rohirim looked so authentic!! And I think they were one of the best ones to appear in the movie.. And the white city was also quite wonderful..

oh, and I didn't like the fact that we didn't see anything of Faramir and Eowyn's healing... I mean they left out the bit about Aragorn being the King who can heal......and then I think that they have left out so much of the "small" things that the fans of the books will miss... Like Faramir's and Eowyn's story I really look forward for the extended cut..
I HOPE THEY*LL HAVE ONE... CAUSE IF THEY DON'T!! argh

And the part when they said goodbye in the gray havens was SO sad... straight from the book...

... OMG! can't believe it has ended... *sob*

all in all a good MOVIE...

~ Bel ~
 
Wouldn't hold you breath for a Faramir/Eowyn courtship as the ROTK extended edition has been announced at 4hrs 15mins by Peter Jackson himself which isn't a lot longer than the actual film.
Before people start moaning about false information here's the source I got it from, near the bottom of the page:
http://www.comingsoon.net/news.php?id=2959
 
That’s not as long as I would like but it’s still almost an extra hour. We can assume that 10-15 minutes of that will be Saruman’s death. That would leave 40 minutes or so to play with.

Assuming that most of the battle sequences were included in the theatrical cut then that could leave us with;

Aragorn and the Dead versus the Corsairs? (5 minutes or so but could be left out)

A deeper look at Denethor and his relationship with Faramir (5-10 minutes and vital in my opinion if Denethor is not to appear a one dimensional character)

The houses of healing (5 minutes and will probably be put in)

Faramir/Eowyn (perhaps could be accomplished in 5 minutes or less)

Frodo and Sam with the Orcs in Moria (just a couple of minutes, maybe 5 here. Could even be left out)

The Mouth of Sauron. (5 minutes and to my mind should be in. Gives a nice moment of despair and makes sense of Aragorn’s poignant “For Frodo” moment)

Maybe an extra 5 minutes of tying things up.

That gives the 40 minutes and to my mind would add quite a bit. I’d still like the 5 hour cut though. Hell I’d like an 8 hour one if it was possible!
 
According to something PJ said last night, live via sattelite in New York, it could be anywhere between 40 min - 1 hour extra...

Now, the Saruman scene is commonly said to be 7 minutes long. So that leaves between 33 to 53 minutes for other stuff, which should be great. Just remember, the first two movies only added 30 mins and 40 mins, and they felt a lot longer and better. This will be by FAR the longest movie of all 3 (As it should be).
 
Oh, And one thing: HAS THERE BEEN A "SMALL" MISSTAKE IN THE MOVIE? I mean when they are at the black-gate they ride on horses and then suddenly the horses have dissapeared...
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Beldaran, I think this is where the mouth of Sauron scene was cut from, other similar "mistakes" are:
In the pyre scene Gandalf no longer has his staff and grabs a spear to hit Denethor with. Apparently a fight scene between Gandalf and the witch king was cut out probably from just before this one.
Frodo and Sam goto the trouble of getting on the orc armour yet on the slopes of Mt. doom they are without it and no explanation. The missing scene is when they are travelling across Mordor as orc soldiers in the book.
I'd presume these will be restored for the extended cut, and I'm hoping for a better rescue of Frodo by Sam, that being the major disappointment for me.
Someone else posted something deriding(sp?) the ride to the black gates for just being a diversion. Another part missing would be Aragorn confronting Sauron through the Palantir, if this was included then the heroic decision to ride out may come across better, but what would you do? cower behind the city wall praying Frodo makes it?
 
i thought gandalf and the witchking would fight, not the chick killing the witchking.
 
I finally got to see the movie last night. :D

I loved it right up until the coronation. Then I think it should have stopped there and left the rest for the extended version.

It did seem to drag on and felt like an anti climax after all that tension and fighting.

I also felt there was a lot cut out of the movie and hope a lot is put back into the extended DVD version. There are definately parts that needed more story to it.

rune
 
I loved it right up until the coronation. Then I think it should have stopped there and left the rest for the extended version.
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I agree wholeheartedly with that, a perfect cinematic ending was just there when everyone bowed to the hobbits. Perhaps that extra time could have been given to the famous Saruman scenes or for a better realization of Denethor. Still I'm no movie editor but maybe a bit too much listening to the fans of the book (like me!)influenced this. I'm sure it's a similar reason as to why Arwens role was rewritten, definately for the better, and as you probably know they didn't do prescreening for these unlike most other movies.
 
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